Need some good advice

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Hello everyone,It seems like every time I turn around I am thinking, "oh man, if I had a welder and knew how to weld, I could do this or that".  My father and I are sick of having to depend on other people and use alternative ways of fixing or building things because we do not have a welder and don't know how to weld.  We have decided to enroll ourselves into a welding class at our local community college.  We will need a welder at home to work on our projects.  I believe we can use the schools welders after hours, but we will need a welder when we finish the class anyway, so I was wondering what set up we would need?  Now we are not going to open a welding shop or anything like that, we would like to eventually build an open motorcycle trailer and build small projects or fix bikes and things like that.  We would also like to keep our budget relativley small also.  Yea, Yea, I know we want our cake and eat it to.  I am as green as it gets when it comes to welding.  I'm not really sure what mig, tig, or arc welding means, but I am willing to learn.  If anyone has any advice, please let me know.Thanks,Tbull
Reply:Well for the money, a stick welder is hard to beat.  Something in the 225 amp range would suit you well for what you are doing, and would keep you around the $300  range for a new machine ready to weld.   You could always go with a small mig setup, but it will be more expensive of a machine, and you will not be able to weld as thick of material as the stick machine. I would take a few classes and run the machines and then decide what you want, and what you think will suit your needs.  Good luck  ~JacksonI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:You've done the right thing by enrolling into some classes.  The most economical and most versatile would be to get a stick welder.  A quick change of a rod and you can weld a variety of materials.  Get one that will run DC for you.But before you go shopping, the best bet would be to wait until you have completed your classes.  Depending on the structure of your class, you make get to use a variety of the welding options.  Pay attention to what you are welding and how each machine performs.  Then you can compare on performance what would be more useful for what you want to do.  Then go shopping. An don't rush, there are lots of machines and suppliers. Good Luck, and have fun.Here in the Great White NorthMosquitoes can't fly at 40 below
Reply:I'm biased against stick welding, so take my advice with a grain of salt.  For doing quick and easy stuff, I prefer a MIG setup with hard wire and gas.  It's quick to do multiple passes and doesn't require cleanup.If you have 240VAC where you plan to do most of your welding then any of the ~180A units from Miller, Lincoln, or Hobart would suffice.  Prices generally run around $600-$700, but then you'll also need a cylinder and a fill.  Cylinders are $100-$150 for 40-80CF.  The 240VAC units are just a bit more than the 120VAC units and more versatile in terms of doing thicker stuff.  If 240VAC isn't as available where you'd like to weld, any of the ~135A class machines would work on 120VAC and cost about a hundred bucks less than the 240VAC machines.  The downside to those is that doing anything thicker than 1/8" will run the machine on the edge of its capabilities.  One can use flux-core with either machine which has it's own specific and useful applications.  It'll also mitigate the need for inert gas.-Heath
Reply:Oh yeah, stay away from the Harbor Freight stuff (except Hobart).  It's cheap, but doesn't really ever work out well.  Most folks that buy that stuff either get frustrated and give up or buy something better very shortly afterwards.-Heath
Reply:I can't add much, decide after class try as many welders as possible.But do buy a bigger machine than you think you need...I was lucky in that respect, Home Depot was out of WeldPak 100s, when I returned they had the 100, the 3200HD and the other one between those.  I had a friend with me, we read the specs. and I took the 3200 home.Oh, yes don't brag to your neighbors unless you want to be welding rusted out mufflers, garden furniture and other junk for FREE.  They'll even drop it off so you can use your electricity.NOTE:- last Paragraph is kind of a joke(but true)Gordon.BTW welding is FUN and welcome to the forum
Reply:Bottom line is, school is a great start.  Learning the concept and fundamentals is very important.  There is really a lot more to welding than striking an arc and laying a bead.  As far as what equipment to get, you'll figure that out as you learn what's going on and consider what you want to do and how you plan on going about doing it.  You don't have to go out and pay high end for equipment for a welding hobby, but don't cut corners either.  Look into the features as you learn what you need to know to make a good decision.  A stick welder is the most versatile and relatively cheaper, but MIG is quicker, cleaner and easier. Stick allows more penetration where MIG is better for thin materials.  MIG needs a shielding gas unless you use a flux core (Some flux core uses a shielding gas in addition) and is restricted to indoor or well contained from drafts.  So many pro's and cons so it really depends on what you are doing, where you are doing it, how much you want to spend, your skill level and how involved you want to get.  I have an older Lincoln Idealarc 250 at home and love it, but use Lincoln and Miller MIG welders at work.  I really like MIG but prefer the old school stick. It's really a personal preference, but make sure you base it on skill and knwoledge more than someone elses opinion.
Reply:Greetings TBULL55:  Just wanted to let you know that I am a new member also and I am as green to welding as they come.  I have asked many questions on many different aspects of welding and I want you to know that these guys in here are the greatest.  They are very helpfull and are willing to go the extra mile for you with expert advice.  You won't ever go wrong by listing to these guys.  I know my hat goes off to everyone.  I just wanted to share that with you so you can feel at ease in here and ask away.  Good luck with your welding school classes, I also have signed up for fall classes.  Sorry if I keep rambling on.  Have a great day!!!!!!!!!
Reply:Many good comments here.  Ditto the others re attending class.I'd recommend also that you start with a stick welder - preferably AC/DC.  You will find that you get better welds with the DC.I'd also recommend that you learn to weld with oxy/acytelene in school (both steel rod as well as brazing), and that you invest in a good set of torches with brazing tips, a cutting torch, and a rosebud.  Between the two of these, you'll be able to weld just about anything for a home project except aluminum.
Reply:Here is another point of view, somewhat similar to the above.   Take the class before getting involved in a purchase.I have, from a long time ago, modest experience with MIG and Stick welding.   Based on that experience my first welder purchase very recently was a MIG.   There are a number of things to consider.One that I haven't seen here is the MIG welders ability to run with a lower AC mains current draw.   This may not be  problem for many people but at the moment my house runs on a 50 amp breaker.    So do consider what you are capable of running with your current electrical service.   If you only have a 60 amp service trying to run a 90 amp input welder could be a problem.As to stick welding, It may upset a few here but I don't see it as being as flexible as some indicate, on a entry level AC welder.    It certainly can be a flexible process on a AC/DC welder that maintains good arc quality.   The problem is that alot of the entry level welders out there don't support DC welding and might not be as flexible across their entire operating range  as a larger welder.Now I know some will say that I have my priorities screwed up and should upgrade my electrical service first.    That is a fine position to have but I have my own priorities.    In any event I do not believe this will be an issue as MIG welders and Stick welder seldom do what the other does well.   They complement each other.The second part of the equation was or is my desire to work on thiner gage sheet metal and tubing.   This  a MIG handles fine.In a nut shell you really need to think about what you will be welding up.   If you are doing auto repair a MIG welder handles most of that well.    If you are welding up farm equipment or structural, a good Stick welder is the order of the day.    No one here can with a 100% accuracy say what the best welder is for you, that is where you have to think about what you are about to use the machine for.   Previous welding experience (your classes) here can help.    When you get to the point where you can answer your own question then you can go our an buy a welder.The other reality is that there are things called multi process welders which is exactly what it seems to be.   That is a welder that can handle one of more welding processes.   There are several examples of these and for somebody just getting familiar with the technology maybe a bit to much in price. To help you out a bit here are a few descriptions from the depth of my memory:1  Stick is the welding process most people think about when welding.    You use a flux coated rod that gets consumed into the joint as part of the welding process.2   MIG is wire feed welding, where hte wire is consumed into the weld bead.    The big difference here is that instead of flux a shielding gas is used.   So you have to equipe yourself with a bottol of welding gas.3.   Tig is a welding process where the consumed material is applied by hand.   The torch is a tungsten electrode with a shielding gas used similarly to MIG.    TIG is often considered to be the ultimate in hand welding.That is a quick run down of a few processes.Last edited by wizard; 04-30-2006 at 02:00 AM.
Reply:I am an overland pipeliner at heart that has recently accuired a contractors license and opened a fab shop, so stick welding payed my bills for a long time. however for general shop use all, around welding usefullness, ease of operation and cost the lincoln 175sp is hard to beat. much like when the cave men left the caves for houses so must we all move out of the stonage and embrace the wire spool. not to say that stick is not usefull but for what you describe you would like to do i would stringly suggest wire, visit the shops that build bike frames and trailers and you will find a mig welder in them (unless real real high end then you will find tig also, but i would bet dollars to turds that they also have mig around the corner. stick has its place but it aint in a production shopErnest Fire doesn't burn a good Christian !
Reply:As expected a variety of responses. I reckon most people start off with stick and graduate to MIG and TIG. (Of course, some start off with MIG.)I'm still using stick welder. I like them because they're cheap to buy and don't require gas i.e. all you need is a selection of rods.I tend to do the stuff around the house that you'll be doing. Mine is plugged in all the time and ready to go. I use it often. Several times every weekend I'll need to do something small. I just turn on the power and off I go.Of course, till I found this site I had no idea how much there was to know about welding. I'm not game yet to make anything that anyone is going to walk on or tow.You're lucky over there having so many places you can go to learn welding. We have community colleges that teach after hours, but none do welding course because the set up costs are too high.And yes, you will be asked to do favours for your friend and relatives. I always say I'm happy to do it if they help (or at least stay and chat) and if they bring me a bottle of wine.
Reply:i started out with rocks and graduated with a degree in weldingIF it Catches...Let it Burn