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I'm looking to build a utility trailer and have a question about the axle placement. Is there a standard formula for how far back beyond centerline to place the axle for the "correct" ride? A friend has some axles and tires. I'm not sure of the width, but roughly 6'. I'm thinking of a 6'x12' trailer out of 2" angle. I'd like it to be pretty heavy duty. any suggestions? thanks.
Reply:Yep. Here is a good source for that info.http://www.championtrailers.com/UTIL...AILER_KITS.HTMSmithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Smithboy, thanks. I'll bookmark that page. i've seen it before, just couldn't remeber where.
Reply:Cost it out before you start buying materials. If it is a standard utility trailer you can usually buy them cheaper than you can build it yourself. Economies of scales as they are. Now if you need top build one specifically for a project that is non-standard then you might be able to build it cheaper than buy and modify.I would cost build vs buy out before I spent alot of time and money.StevenInspiring Thought for the Day:Some people are like slinkies ... Not really good for anything....but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Reply:Yes, there is a standard formula. The axle should be placed such that 10-12% of the load is on the tongue of the trailer. Either end of the axle should also be equidistant from the hitch.-Heath
Reply:standles is absolutely right about economies of scale...they buy in bulk and get the parts cheaper, and they assemble several at a time and labor costs are lower. But, I have gotten good deals on old trailers that need work. They also don't pose the same problem of registration (some states are pretty hard on home builders).Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:For that size trailer you should put duel's (tandem axle) under it, but like the other's have said I'd be pricing a pre made unit.I don't bother building them for myself these day's, I can't even buy the steel for the price of a completed trailer.StephenI'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:you could probably find what you need in the want ads cheap...but there's nothing like doing it yourself so you can step back when your done and say "yaehhhh"my back hurts ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Awe man, you guys are takin all the fun out of it. . You're right about the price of the trailer vs. cost of material to build, but like Zap said, there's nothing like standing back and admiring your own work. I'm not sure i'm at a skill level to be building a structural project like this yet as I'm still concerned about the Mig stand I put togather and now have my brand new mig machine sitting on it. I don't think it will, but i keep waitin for the welds to crumble and the little red box to be smakin the concrete . I'm gonna do a few more projects before i tackle a trailer. I've got a few axles at my disposal, so i plan to make a heavy duty single axle for myself. I may even have access to a tounge and springs . The only expense i'll have is the frame steel(long lengths) and I can get short stuff from the drop yard for a discounted price. Oh yea, lights. but that's easy. I'll let my buddies take it out and durability test it down a dirt road with a load of wood when i'm done .
Reply:Personally I would build it....if cost is an issue fine...but I like a custom traieler....If notthing else it makes me feel good knowing I built it and it can do whatever I ask of it lmaoIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Originally Posted by TxRedneckPersonally I would build it....if cost is an issue fine...but I like a custom traieler....If notthing else it makes me feel good knowing I built it and it can do whatever I ask of it lmao
Reply:i am about to build my own trailer also but I only have the ground to make it own. I dont have a shop with a concrete floor or anything. The ground is fairly flat but I was just wondering if doing it on the ground will cause any warping issues?
Reply:Funnily enough, I was looking at trailers on the weekend. We call them 'box' trailers. I was thinking about making one, but was amazed at how cheap they are bought new. I reckon I'd only save a couple of hundred dollars making it. I'll probably get a second hand one and modify it.
Reply:Sandy and Redneck, I agree with the "build it yourself" attitude. It's not that I couldn't go and buy one, but what's fun about that? I'm diggin this welding thing so I'm gonna give it a shot. Like i said, I've got most of the materials on hand except the frame steel. I'll be able to make exactly what I want and need and I'm sure i'll learn something while i'm doin it. Hope i don't learn about bad welds while i'm towin something expensive though .For a 6'x10' trailer, does 2"x2" angle sound sturdy enough to haul say, a quad or a load of lumber? I'm not looking to haul heavy equipment or cars, but would like it to be heavy duty enough to take a beatin down 2 tracks for hunting and fishing trips.Thanks for the conversation ya'll. And those of you that have made a trailer, would you mind giving some "build" sequence hints? maybe some modification tips? thanks again.
Reply:Well, having a few of the parts on hand means lower out-of-pocket expenses. Heck, I'd do it.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:I would think 2x2 angle would be a little on the light side for a 6x10 trailer. It would also help to know the thickness of the 2x2 but I would go for 2x2 box or 2x3 box for a trailer that size. Just my limited opinion. I have not built a trailer, but I have used a few, and you always put as much as you can in the trailer, and a big trailer will mean big weight at some point in time.Bart
Reply:Bnemerov, you make a couple of good points, thickness matters here. It might be a little light, but if he adds side a rail around three sides, this will add to the rigidity...is that the "box" you are talking about. Assuming a little lumber and a 4 wheeler are all that's gonna ride on it...well, that aint too much weight, but again you are right...if you have a trailer, you tend to pile it on. 10 feet is getting on the long side for a single axle, though. It might be better to get more steel for the frame and use the steel on hand for the rails and maybe the ramps or something and pick up a second axle.Just a couple of passing thoughts.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:I'd like to add that tandem axles are a pain. They impact handling negatively and are difficult to get properly oriented on a trailer. They also won't bear a load evenly, so they can be easily overloaded if one has a trailer loaded to capacity. There is no reason to consider going to tandem axles unless you need the capacity. Dexter Axle (my favorite) makes single axles suitable for small trailers in GVW capacities of 2000, 3500, and 6000Lbs. There are other capacities, but these are common. In any case, I can't foresee needing anything more than a 3500# axle for a 6x10 utility trailer. Assuming the all up weight for your trailer is 1500#, that leaves you with a ton of capacity which should be sufficient for most things. If you're going to be hauling fill, or whatever, then you might step up to a 6000# axle.Brakes are also something to consider. There may be local laws that affect whether you should have brakes. I know that in California, all commercial trailers require brakes. I've got a trailer with a 3500# capacity that runs about a ton when loaded. It stops just fine behind my half-ton pickup. For anything larger, I'd definitely have brakes.You could build a trailer out of 2x2 angle, but if you did, then you would have to rely on the sides for stiffness. This will make for a nice light trailer, but if the sides are damaged, or if you have an oddly distributed load, then you might have a problem. I'd personally opt for a couple of stout framerails. You could use .250 wall 4" channel or .180 wall 2x4 rectangular tube. You could also use .120 wall rectangular tube, if you understood the engineering well and knew where to reinforce it. The area around the spring shackles is the point on the frame that takes the most concentrated load. Following that, 2x2 angle for crossmembers should be fine.The axle centerline should be just behind the center of the load. For a utility trailer with a 10' box, I'd consider putting it about 48-54" from the rear of the box, which should be something close to 60/40. Regardless of where you put the axle, the tongue weight should always be about 10-15% of the total weight.Consider having a nice long tongue. It will make the trailer track better and be less prone to jackknifing. It will also make it easier to load the trailer and maintain the proper tongue weight. Also make sure that the tip of either end of the axle is equidistant to the tongue, regardless of whether the rest of the trailer is square or not. If it isn't, the trailer won't track well and will wear the tires more quickly than it otherwise should.-Heath
Reply:I would say I agree with Heath on everything except one point. I do like a tandem cause if you get a flat you do have a fighting chance of running wiht three tires. Yes its hillbillie to extreme and IM a redneck, but desperate times call for desperate measures. Also, if you have a blow out, wiht a properly built tandem, even with a heavy load, you will have better control than with a single axle. This is why I do prefer tandem. Also I have found better tongue weights on a tandem. But again they are much more complicated, and for a 6X10 its a quandry as to whether yo need it or not. Its hard to say. I personally would go tandem. Just cause I can. Ive got a 6ft X 16ft and of course its a tandem. Pulls amazingly well. I love that trailer. HOwever, backing in is a chore as the axles will bind in a tight squeeze backing or forward. But all in all its a good trailerIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:thanks for replies guys. I looked at a few trailers today with some co-workers and we saw and concluded the same that you all have mentioned. we got to study a 6 1/2'x10' trailer today for quite a while. first, the 60/40 axle placement formula is a must as many of you have mentioned and i've witnessed the "major sway" of those that don't follow that rule. also, the frame on this trailer was 2"x3" angle with a 2x2 rail. I didn't notice the thickness, but seems to be thicker than the standard 1/8" i've got in the garage. All seems fairly straight forward except the part of the axle ends being equal distance from the tounge for true tracking(thanks a bunch Heath), didn't think of that one. that along with axle placement seem to me to be 2 of the more important engineering considerations to keep in mind. the tandem is very apealing Txredneck, however i don't have a need for that size and duty, but if the first trailer goes well, i might have to tackle a tandem just to do it. also have a smaller rig now. went from an avalanche to a H3. that's the reason for the trailer. i'm thinkin i'll end up with another full size truck in the future as the hummer with the I5 gets the same if not worse mileage than the old avalanche! when i get the axle in the garage, i'll start layin it out and post pics of progress. don't know when i'll get to it due to other "home duties" like puttin a steel roof on the house and finishin the deck railing. wife want's that stuff done first . dam'd chores .again, thanks for all the input. i'm taking it all into consideration. i can't wait to start burnin some steel on this thing. for now i'll keep practicing on smaller projects. i've been layin beads every night now and am getting pretty comfortable with my little Lincoln. i'm glad i've got experts around like ya'll for this kinda help. thanks Tim
Reply:I've never been one for angle iron for anything other than light duty, cross members and/or stiffeners so I better not say a lot. I don't have much experience on what angle will or won't do. I'm big on channel and box. Mostly channel. Just to explore the extremes there are more considerations to loading than just the weight istself, so a guy really has to have an understanding of those as well as make some decisions as to what it is he wants.How that load gets on a trailer makes a huge difference as to how well it holds up over the test of time. Lumber alone is almost the ideal situation. The load gets spread out over many many sqaure inches of bearing surface and usually put on one piece at a time or a partial skid at a time. With lumber you could probably put five thou on a three thousand pound (rated) trailer. Ha, and in todays market who can afford to by enough lumber at one time to put a load on a trailer anyhow? Steel for projects is similar to lumber. For things like those, brush, garbage to the dump, mowers, few projects cinder blocks, couple of quads,,,,, an angle iron trailer is ideal as well as light weight itself. Plus a wooden deck helps spread some of the load, but 2x6's are pricey and heavy too.The big problems come with 'point loading' or heavy loads with little or no distribution of the weight. Imagine something as light as 2,000lbs being run up on a trailer from the rear on ramps. Tremendous strain on the rear structure. Loading slow helps, but who does that? A pallet of blocks being set on the back then pushed to the front by a fork lift. A pallet of blocks setting up front over the tongue. A quad setting primarily on one corner for two hundred miles of bounce, bounce, bounce. Think about things like that. If you need a yard and garden light duty traile for hauling bulky stuff go light. If your a "don't know what all" kinda guy, go a bit heavier.Dimes worth ).
Reply:3X2 should be 3/16" possibly 1/4"IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:oh I agree with Sandy on structural iron. I dont care for angle personally. Its relatively weak compared to chan and tube. Tube is best. But 2X3 should sufficeIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Hey guys, I have been out of state for a few days and this is the first thread I came back to. Let me jump in here.I don't object to the guys pointing out the cost factor of building your own vs. buying one. And I can really appreciate the other side of the coin with the guys being proud of what they built. Now here is my take. If you don't care about quality, buy one. If you want it to be built with attention to detail, build it. I have seen a lot of trailers out here in Arizona and most of them are pure crap. They will serve the purpose for most people or homeowners, but if you really want to use the thing, they are mostly crap. I hate seeing trailers built with c-channel and angle iron in lengths greater than 6ft. Have you seen these things on the freeway with a load on? Holy cow! It's a mess! That's my rant.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:2x2 and 2x3 that I've seen is usually 3/16", though it certainly comes in other thicknesses. 4" channel is certainly better than angle, but 4" rectangular tube gives more rigidity for a given weight. It's harder to work with, though.Chris, you certainly are a redneck. I usually just carry a spare. Since we're weighing in with opinions, I'd prefer a 6000Lb single axle over a double 3500Lb tandem which covers most utility trailers. For anything larger, a tandem is usually going to be required.-HeathOriginally Posted by halbrittChris, you certainly are a redneck. I usually just carry a spare.
Reply:Custom all the way. Then you know what you have. Have owned a couple of the so called 'utility' trailers and would not waste my money on another. If you build it yourself you know what you're getting. As for the axle placement. I use the 40 - 60 ratio. No matter how long or short the trailer is. Just remember to build it big enough for what you will be hauling, not to exceed the GVW of the tow vehicle.If it's HOT, Don't touch it
Reply:We have one, its called big red. Its my big mule. Was built about 34 years ago by a retired pipeliner. I admit to a certain degree it was over done. It was custom built for my grandad for hauling a Farmall B. Its a 16ft X 6ft, or could be 6.5 but I dont remmber think its only 6, anyway, tandem axle one set of brakes, only since oh '97 and it weighs in almost 2k#. Its heavy. It is licensed to gross at 7k# but weve had it laden heavier. Gdad has run used pickup tires on it forever. The tires off his pickup or van. LT235/75R15 There is a spare on the trailer..only one. I recall pulling the trailer with the tractor when the trailer had a flat. Well thats fine can handle a flat. But half hour down the road, and about 10-15 miles to the farm, we get another flat. Well were like wtf. Gdad had me pull the shredded tire off. Threw onto the trailer and we nursed it home on three wheels. It did work. Never could have pulled that off with a single axle I have found that tandem will trail better than any single, but it was built well, a lil heavy, but well. It does use angle in the construction, but oil well drill strem is the main structural foundation. Angle ontop for the decking. Weve pulled it in double with anotehr 16ft. Pulls well and pulls other trailers well too. That was done with hay. Normal hay run ws the big red and the lil haybale trailer. One time we used the two 16ft'rs cause he dint want to pay the gas to make two trips and wanted the extra rolls. Worked...heavier than sin, but it workedIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:I will say I will never buy a trailer, even though financially its more fesible. I build them because I know how I built it, and I build it exactly to my specs. If I kill someone n the highway I live with that for the rest of my life. I would rather live with the fact I built it incorrectly and it failed than to live with the fact I was cheap and to save a few hundred dollars I just bought this lil boy or girl or grandmas death certificate. I personally have full confindence in my abilities and take my trailer building very seriously. I dont build them a lot, especially anymore. But I still take great pride. Every trailer Ive built the next one got that much better. I learned from every mistake. These include simple things like choice of coupler, or how to make the tailgate. I plan to build my dad a small lil bitty trailer soon. 4X8 or so. I will make it small and light. Maybe carry 1500lbs or something. Real light lil job. But I will be rest assured he can put that trailer through its paces and sleep at night feeling safe and knowing that it will do the job. Ive seen death traps in my day. Its dangerous. Gdad has owned many of them. Ive been in a car with a trailer that was improperly axled mounted and jackknived. When you look out your window and see your trailer its kinda scary. By the grace of god and the hand of his G.Angel my pops got the car straightened out and merely lost a hubcap. It was a good night to be thankful. Never pulled that trailer ever again. the 60/40 rule is very good. I also like a good length on my tongue, and it needs to go up under the trailer a fair bit. I usualy use 1/3 of tongue length under the trailer. This maybe overkill but I believe its a good number. It allows extra strength, helps prevent tongue slap.IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Redneck, wise words. i'm pretty sure i'm gonna stick with the single axle for my first try, but i gotta tell you you've got me thinking, maybe too much, about this blow out thing. if i'm doin 75 on the freeway and i have a blowout on the trailer that's haulin a $7k quad, i wonder if the wreckage would warrent an insurance check.
Reply:Start welding a few pieces of scrap together, lockem in a vise and knockem apart with a hammer. This destructive testing will tell the tell about the strength of your welds. If it breaks, look it over real good and figure out where your mistake was made. Grind it off and weld it again. If you are a new mig welder chances are your travel speed is to great.
Reply:The number off axels needed is directly related to the weight you will be hauling, not to the size of the trailer.
Reply:Originally Posted by alan watersThe number off axels needed is directly related to the weight you will be hauling, not to the size of the trailer.
Reply:http://www.synthx.com/articles/trailer-design.htmlDecent article on trailer design, a bit light on details, but useful nonetheless.-Heath
Reply:Bdaddy,I have a 5x8 util. Its rated oh Id say it could easily carry every bit of 3000lbs. I had it loaded down something heavy few years ago. at 85mph I had a blow out. Sure I was stopped dead in my tracks...but the trailer handled very well. Felt like a ran an alligator over or something. Road Gators are rough btw...but this was my own lol. I think you will be alright with your quads. I would suggest tying them in good, but thats just a general precaution. For any number of reasons. I dont know what your quads weigh in at, but i doubt they were that heavy. Even with that weight it still handled the blow out and stop comparatively well.NO major evasive manuevers lets just sayIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Two axles does, however, help with load shifting and ground clearence. A long trailer with a single axle doesnt handle uneven ground as well as with 2. I guess 10 foot really isn't that long, though. A single axle in this case will probably be fine, maybe even just right.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Originally Posted by babydaddyRedneck, wise words. i'm pretty sure i'm gonna stick with the single axle for my first try, but i gotta tell you you've got me thinking, maybe too much, about this blow out thing. if i'm doin 75 on the freeway and i have a blowout on the trailer that's haulin a $7k quad, i wonder if the wreckage would warrent an insurance check.
Reply:ive never flipped a trailer over to weld themIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Originally Posted by TxRedneckive never flipped a trailer over to weld them
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloYou're not strong enough!!! I actually flip them on their side to weld up the bottom seams.
Reply:I just hold the trailer up with one hand and weld with the other; however, I have spilled my beer before while doing this.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:THAT is uncalled for ! no trailer is worth a spilled BEER ! any good welder oughta be able to do some overhead .and any place you see having a right angle ; put a small(big ?) gusset in there . adds a lot of strength. if necessary, a few extra pounds of steel bracing can make a world of difference . another thought . i have at times, working on a trailer used mig, and stick , on the same trailer . some welds just favor one procedure instead of the other . on a trailer , i do NOT use mig except on joints that have been GROUND, or sanded quite well. remember mig has poor (shallow) penetration.
Reply:and I stand on this solid foundation of Marshmallows !
Reply:One time, before I made some lil jackstands that use a screw for height, I was building a trailer and couldnt get just the right height.Used the boom on the 3pt and picked the trailer and lowered it to the right height for mounting the axle. Worked like a dream. But noisey witht hat diesel engine and not only that, the old man breathing down my throat going, can we lower it can we lower it lolIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:and if it werent for roys last post I wouldnt say this, the mig does have shallower penetration than certain stick rods. The mig also does need clean steel, so do certain stick rods like 7018. Im very irritatred when I see folks using a 7018 on dirty steel. 6013 is no differnt. Basically you need 6011 or 6010 for dity steel. Good penetration too. More than 1/4" youneed to bevel. Even 1/4" though you would be benefitted from a lil bevel. Easy to do with an angle grinder. Save yourself a bunchIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:What would be the best material to use to make around a 16-18 foot trailer to carry 7-10k load and flat bed? Angle? Square tube, rect tube? and what thickness etc.
Reply:square or rectangular tube IMO.3X4 would prolly be good....have to give itmore thought though...IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Rectangular tube generally provides the most rigidity in the desired axis with the least amount of weight. If you can work with 2x6, that'd be preferred in terms of stiffness versus weight. I could do some actual analysis to determine the appropriate wall thickness, but my seat-of-the-pants estimation is that 3/16" wall 2x6 would be more than sufficient. It weighs about the same as .250 wall 2x4 and is nearly twice as stiff. TxRedneck suggested 3x4 and as much as I like him (not very much) I'd have to contradict him. Wider frame rails would only be necessary if there were a great deal of lateral loading, which there won't be in addition to the fact that the crossmembers and gussets will add a great deal of lateral strength for very little additional weight.This would all be much easier to explain if everyone were in the room with me and I could do some hand-waving and sketch out the forces on a whiteboard.-Heath
Reply:Originally Posted by halbrittRectangular tube generally provides the most rigidity in the desired axis with the least amount of weight. If you can work with 2x6, that'd be preferred in terms of stiffness versus weight. I could do some actual analysis to determine the appropriate wall thickness, but my seat-of-the-pants estimation is that 3/16" wall 2x6 would be more than sufficient. It weighs about the same as .250 wall 2x4 and is nearly twice as stiff. TxRedneck suggested 3x4 and as much as I like him (not very much) I'd have to contradict him. Wider frame rails would only be necessary if there were a great deal of lateral loading, which there won't be in addition to the fact that the crossmembers and gussets will add a great deal of lateral strength for very little additional weight.This would all be much easier to explain if everyone were in the room with me and I could do some hand-waving and sketch out the forces on a whiteboard.
Reply:Course I thin you could easily get away with 4X2 3/16" wall, but I am sure youll want to verify that first. But with top rail to help with support youll prolly be goodIF it Catches...Let it Burn |
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发表于 2021-9-1 01:00:02