Should I Even Get Involved??

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My buddy Marc has finally done it..Went downtown and did the paperwork to start his welding buisness..The insurance part will be done tomorrow..He went out and got a Miller Trailblazer 251NT..Mig..Tig..Stick capable..20 HP Onan..4000 hrs on it..1200$Good deal??He's going tomorrow to get a 300 amp AC/DC stick machine also..Wants to turn the dragster trailer into a mobile workshop..Build a new garage in back of his house..And hire me right away.. I have a job..I like my job..I'm not leaving my job..He wants me to "be available at nite and weekends".. I can see it now..I do all the work..You know the rest..I have a job..I like my job..He's my best friend..Snowmobiling..Racing..I have a job..I like my job..I don't know what to do.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Good deal on the TB! Help him out on weekends, that's what my buddy does for me up here. If you have something to do, tell him. Don't leave your job for that, unless he has a HUGE contract already lined up, you guys will be eating Ramin noodles for weeks! John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:From reading your posts and viewing the welds you produce, you're too good to be working for someone else.  He may be your best friend but he probably also knows this.  If you like your job, keep it and your friendship.  If he wants you for "nites and weekends" I think that'll happen more often then not and it could get really ugly.  Tell him you'll do tricky jobs here and there but he has to pay you for your time.Laura MM 180Chop SawDewalt grinderhelpful husband
Reply:Just tell him you will help but there are limits.You have a jobYou like your jobHe's your friend so help him but teach him too. You know, give a man a fish bla bla bla.......He wants you available 24/7 ????? He's old enough for his wants not to hurt him
Reply:Make it clear that you are not interested because you value your friendship with him. Explain that you have a job, like your job, and many times friendships are ruined due to business ventures that go bad and that you are not willing to take that chance.If he is your friend, he should respect your answer.Just my thoughts on the subject...Hobart 140 Handler w/ gasHyperTherm Powermax 380 Plasmaoxy/acetylene
Reply:stay, your boss seems ok by letting our members come in there and utilize his shop. you have enough cars and trucks, you got a nice house on the lake and Mrs. Zap seems to be happy doing stained glass and going to the car shows. you don't seem to be working the 7/12's(which will probally happen if you jump ship). and does this friend really have enough business to keep you employed. plus, what will WOG do if you leave. he may get upset and cry. lol"Retreat hell, were just fighting in the other direction"Miller Trailblazer 302, Extreme 12 VS, Dimension 400, Spectrum 375, HF 251D-1, Milermatic 251 w/ spoolgun  Hypertherm 1000Lincoln sp 1702000 F-450 to haul it
Reply:Yeah John but the problem is well...Marc..We are 2 completely diffrent people in that..He lives to work..If he's not doing something 24-7 then he will find something to do..I work to live...I really dont like doing anymore than I have to..when I don't have to..We go snowmobiling..We come back and then insulate the garage..See where this is going??Thats how he is..I love him like a brother but..I like my "time out" too.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:It sounds like he's going all in which is great if he knows what he's doing, I would think he does, but that still doesn't mean you're his new partner.As a friend I'd 'help' a couple of nights and the odd day on the weekend, if available, but if/when 'helping' turned into saving his butt that'd pretty much be the end of it.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterYeah John but the problem is well...Marc..We are 2 completely diffrent people in that..He lives to work..If he's not doing something 24-7 then he will find something to do..I work to live...I really dont like doing anymore than I have to..when I don't have to..We go snowmobiling..We come back and then insulate the garage..See where this is going??Thats how he is..I love him like a brother but..I like my "time out" too.....zap!
Reply:I would say to be available when you can. Make sure you can name your own price, and take or leave jobs at will. Pinklilly has a piont, you are too good to be working for someone. Thats for you to descide. You may like your job, but this could be a good opportunity. You only need to be 2% smarter than what you are working on.Lincoln pm140hacksawa big hammer
Reply:From reading your posts and viewing the welds you produce, you're too good to be working for someone else.
Reply:Maybe I should have been alittle clearer..I can keep my job..No way in He!! I'm going anywhere.. He wants me around when I'm not there.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterDon't take this the wrong way but I'm already working for someone else..  ...zap!
Reply:My husband lives to work and it gets old really fast.
Reply:I think I would tell him I'd help sometimes but we'd have clear details about pay and when I would work.DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:I really appreciate everyones oppinion..I have a few decisions to make..Its still in its "infant" stage but knowing Marc..It will be a monster before I know it.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:It does, we're in the process of moving to NC he's already there.  He is looking for a commercial/residential ppty that we can open up a shop and live in as well.  He works with wood (also active duty pilot) which means TONS of hours already.  He wants me to do MIG welding (hobby type) and my other talents which are stained glass, mosaics, jewelery making, etc.  I'm trying to be flexible about the whole thing but we also have a 3 year old whom I stay home with.  I'm nervous we'll be living in a garage and I'll never be done working.  Laura MM 180Chop SawDewalt grinderhelpful husband
Reply:Mrs zap is going back to teaching stained glass right after Labor day weekend..She's good!!.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Man I wish I lived up north, I could attend Zap school for lots o things.Laura MM 180Chop SawDewalt grinderhelpful husband
Reply:Here is some of her stuff..Enjoy!http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...=Stained+glass...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:If your buddy knows how to weld as well as you do, he should be fine on his own. If he is just a guy with money to invest, but no skills, he might be banking on you being there to back him up. Completely denying him help when he needs it might make him think you arent a good buddy. I would let him know how you feel about his venture, but let him know that your will be there if he is in a real jam. Remember, evening and weekends = time and a half. Offer him your skills on a contractor basis, and charge him accordingly. I am sure he when he sees how much it will cost him for your SPARE TIME, he will only call on you when he really needs it.Miller Syncrowave 200Hobart Handler 140Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38E-Z Tube BenderPlasma Cam DHC2
Reply:Originally Posted by QuciferIf your buddy knows how to weld as well as you do, he should be fine on his own. If he is just a guy with money to invest, but no skills, he might be banking on you being there to back him up. Completely denying him help when he needs it might make him think you arent a good buddy. I would let him know how you feel about his venture, but let him know that your will be there if he is in a real jam. Remember, evening and weekends = time and a half. Offer him your skills on a contractor basis, and charge him accordingly. I am sure he when he sees how much it will cost him for your SPARE TIME, he will only call on you when he really needs it.
Reply:If you do "help him out" make sure it's not going to cause friction with your boss. Tell your boss won't let you if your looking for a way out. In my opinion I might help on a case by case basis if it wouldn't make my boss mad.That's an OK deal on the trailblazer for an occassional user but 4000 hrs on a 3600-3800 rpm gasoline machine is too many hrs on it to base a business off of. 4000 hrs on a 1800 rpm diesel machine wouldn't nearly as risky. I hope he has pockets deep enough if he needs a new machine pronto.
Reply:Originally Posted by tresiIf you do "help him out" make sure it's not going to cause friction with your boss. Tell your boss won't let you if your looking for a way out. In my opinion I might help on a case by case basis if it wouldn't make my boss mad.That's an OK deal on the trailblazer for an occassional user but 4000 hrs on a 3600-3800 rpm gasoline machine is too many hrs on it to base a business off of. 4000 hrs on a 1800 rpm diesel machine wouldn't nearly as risky. I hope he has pockets deep enough if he needs a new machine pronto.
Reply:Your just too damn good for your own good.Originally Posted by tresiYour just too damn good for your own good.
Reply:Zap, I've been where you are. A friend who lives about 130 mi from here had a rock crusher and wanted me to come work for him when I retired early from the union. I tried to tell him in very plain terms that I retired early because my body told me it was time to get away from the crushers. Well,after a couple of heated arguments about it,we are no longer friends. He just couldn't understand that after 32 yrs,I wanted to do something different.   I agree w/ the OP's here in that I'd help Marc at your convenience. I think anything beyond that will strain a good friendship and a good marriage. If Marc can't see this,then he's too narrowminded.                        HTH,                               MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Originally Posted by mla2ofusZap, I've been where you are. A friend who lives about 130 mi from here had a rock crusher and wanted me to come work for him when I retired early from the union. I tried to tell him in very plain terms that I retired early because my body told me it was time to get away from the crushers. Well,after a couple of heated arguments about it,we are no longer friends. He just couldn't understand that after 32 yrs,I wanted to do something different.   I agree w/ the OP's here in that I'd help Marc at your convenience. I think anything beyond that will strain a good friendship and a good marriage. If Marc can't see this,then he's too narrowminded.                        HTH,                               Mike
Reply:"He's your friend so help him but teach him too. You know, give a man a fish bla bla bla......."Hey Tek !    Can you really weld with a fish?  . .. ... FMAW?No long winded diatribe here. .. do what is right for you and yours! If he is a real friend then he will understand your decision either way.Washman
Reply:Zap, after seeing your work over the last 2 years, you should have your own shop! It's hard work, but it all pays off in time. I did it in 1996 and took it full time in 2000. (www.jmarcoz.com)If Marc is union, will his own business interfere with his union's positions on everything in life like some of them do?
Reply:I had a best freind who did the same thing  with the same offer to me about 20 years ago.  It lasted about 3 weeks.  I haven't seen him in 19 years 11 months and I'll beat his f***ing *** if I ever do.
Reply:As a friend, you're already involved.  The question is, to what extent do you get drug in? Real balancing act.
Reply:Sucks for you bud.DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:Time to spend a month or two on a small island with no phone or cell phone service.
Reply:Zap,You have a job and place in life where you are happy?  And don't want to change that?That's your answer right there.He's your friend, be straight with him, but tell him No.  His life and world may revolve around 24/7 work and projects and such, but if that isn't what you want just tell him.Help a friend out, sure.  That's what friends do.  The cost is usually pizza and beer.Help a friend running a business on weekends and after you've already put in your full-time paying job?  If he's in a pinch (through no real fault of his own, meaning poor planning on his part does not constitute an emergency on your part!), then it's your call.And an engine with 4000 hours on it does sound like a lot of hours.  Even if well maintained, that's a lot of hours.  Does he have any clue about running a business?  Taxes, and more taxes, and payroll taxes, and Social Security taxes, and bookkeeping, and depreciation, and corporate taxes, and rent, and a business plan, and customers, and so forth.  It's not easy starting or running a business.  Good luck to him in the business.
Reply:Originally Posted by Washman"Hey Tek !    Can you really weld with a fish?  . .. ... FMAW?Washman
Reply:This is just my experience, but I say let friends be friends and keep business as business.  Maybe i am crazy but a trailblazer with 4000hrs on it is not a dependable machine for someone wanting to start there own business.  If it has 4000 hrs then its already worn out. the oldest machine I have only has 3000 hrs on it, and I had to upgrade for it nickel and dimeing me to death.  You already say you aren't leaving your current job, that the two of you don't have the same work attitude, and that feel like you would be doing all the work.  I would suggest explaining that you are happy with your job, when you are not working you prefer to rest, and if he gets in a tight or needs some help from time to time then you would be glad to help.  However I would not commit to being a part of it given what your feelings are.  I hate to say it, but this is the kind of situation friendship is lost over if both parties aren't honest and upfront about EVERYTHING with each other.  Best of luck in your decision.  I know its tough.  Been there myself.  ~JacksonI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:This reminds me of when one of my close friends bought a VW powered sandrail "project" that he asked me if I would help him with.  He took me along to go look at it, and I guess I did a poor job in exclaiming how bad of an idea I thought it was.  Well, he pays 800 bucks for it, trailers it home, yanks the engine off, and drops it off at my shop.....7 months later, it is under a table. Why?  I told him a little help would be given, not "hey drop off your seized junk 1200 cc waste of time and I will fight my way through it for free for your benefit"....I always fear these things can turn sour like that incident did, but at the same time I do some work for friends that appreciate the hell out of it and never complain a bit so I dont know...  I have had beer, welding wire, and tips magically appear in my shop, along with I have a pair of torch tanks that refilled themselves after being used to save someone a lot of time and effort... Which is how my best of friends treat me  Gauge his need to lean on you, be supportive but dont put yourself out.  Money is one thing, but missing out on life to die rich would suck wouldnt it?
Reply:Well Zap, Now that I have gotten to know you a little, I will share my feeling on this as I am along way down that road now. I have a full time job which at this point I am not going to give up. I also have my own little side business. I used to work part time for a friend of my but after getting screwed over in taxes I now subcontract to him and play the tax game. This guy I work for is my best friend and we have known each other since birth. We have a great understanding and have worked through many ups and downs. I have worked on and off with him since I was 13 when we used to sandblast tanks. Their are several things to consider very seriously here. One is the change it makes in your life. After getting used to making extra money, I find it hard to give up as it becomes part of your regular income. Also I feel depended on to the point that it starts to cut way to much into my family time. I must point out here that I am a bit of a work alveoli and I seem to either spend money or make money, never an in between. Now I feel tired and wore out so I am trying to change my life for the better. In regards to working with friends, normally one of two things will happen in this situation. Either your friendship will get stressed and the results of that are never good, or you will work great together and that will results in bigger changes. these changes could be good were you end up liking the situation and go full time as a partner or your home life ends up taking the hit which can result in another whole situation. My plans were and still are to a point of having a little business going to retire at to keep busy and help out my financial end of retirement. I find now that I am not going in the direction I was planning on and I am having a hard time changing it. It is so easy to make some changes but so hard to make others. Its a hard choice Zap. Most of us all like to help others, feel wanted and still have the stuff, but its to easy to make a wrong turn when you have a lot going on. And it even harder to straighten it out. I hope I have giving you something worth thinking about and maybe brought a new view to your dilemma. Good luck with your choice.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterMy buddy Marc has finally done it..Went downtown and did the paperwork to start his welding buisness..The insurance part will be done tomorrow..He went out and got a Miller Trailblazer 251NT..Mig..Tig..Stick capable..20 HP Onan..4000 hrs on it..1200$Good deal??He's going tomorrow to get a 300 amp AC/DC stick machine also..Wants to turn the dragster trailer into a mobile workshop..Build a new garage in back of his house..And hire me right away.. I have a job..I like my job..I'm not leaving my job..He wants me to "be available at nite and weekends".. I can see it now..I do all the work..You know the rest..I have a job..I like my job..He's my best friend..Snowmobiling..Racing..I have a job..I like my job..I don't know what to do.. ...zap!
Reply:Marc sounds like a user.  Sorry, but I know guys who are pushy and won't take no for an answer.  If you break down and give them an inch, they end up taking a mile.Tell him you're not getting any younger (aren't we all?) and 40 hours of welding a week is enough.WeldingWeb forum--now more sophomoric banter than anything else!
Reply:Help a friend a bit, sure, no problem but. you have to stay a safe distance back or get sucked up in it all & just be an extension of his life & business. What I have read since being here you & Mrs. Zap have found the little corner of the world that suits both of you just fine. Do you really want to start looking for another corner? Late nights & not around on week ends build up pressure.Last edited by lars66; 07-31-2007 at 11:47 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by lars66Help a friend a bit, sure, no problem but. you have to stay a safe distance back or get sucked up in it all & just be an extension of his life & business. What I have read since being here you & Mrs. Zap have found the little corner of the world that suits both of you just fine. Do you really want to start looking for another corner? Late nights & not around on week ends build up pressure.
Reply:Well guys and gals..Everyone has their "version" about what to do..Many angles still to look at..I'm still looking.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Zap.....just my two cents......but I think if you are as close as you say then he will already know how much you enjoy your "off" time to spend with races and with Mrs. Zap. He probably knows that you two are different people and maybe you just need to ask "now how much involvement do you need from me cause you know I sure love my off time and Mrs Zap time..".....Maybe a smile and joking tone in your voice will get the point across without causing any hard feelings....and tell him you will do all you can to help him get started and make sure he is on his feet but I sure enjoy my off time......he will certainly understand and be glad that you was honest with him now rather than having a falling out at a later date. There are ways to tell people your point and not hurt anyones feelings....good luck zap and let us know what happens.......
Reply:Marc sounds like a user. Sorry, but I know guys who are pushy and won't take no for an answer. If you break down and give them an inch, they end up taking a mile.
Reply:ZapIt's great that you have loyalty to your boss and friend but the bottom line that will make this decision easier for you, is what effects yourself and families needs!If your lifestyle is changed because of  your decision, how would it effect you! and your family! this is where you got to use you past experiences to help make your decision.Helping friends is a good thing but what are you gaining other then satisfaction of supporting them, Nothing more then a pay check and you already have that.From what I see you are a band member and a drag racer so you need your time to enjoy them and if you are off weekends and working your regular job during the week say bye bye to that!Just remember one thing Your friend is the one who has decided to do this not you so do whats right for yourself!
Reply:There's a difference between wants and needs. I feel if you tell him you'll only help when he needs it, then he'll turn his wants into needs and start beggin for help right away. If you just say "no thanks, my life can't take on more work right now", then you won't get a request for help until he really needs it (hopefully).
Reply:Start your own business, hire him, and tell him when to work and not!!  Very simply, Years and years ago, I joined into a business with a childhood friend and our work philosphies were very different.  EVENTUALLY,  Caused a lot of trouble because of different expectations from each other, because of the different work philosophiesThese diff expectations led to feelings of letting each other down, accusations to each other of not caring about the work............And so therefore, not caring about the other person views of what has to be done.And therfore accusations of not caring about the other person, and betrayal.I been there.20 years of freindship gone forever, end of the friendship started 13 years ago.      and still continues         I would keep a distance with business ;                   - to keep your friendship close!Good luck, Matt, the newbie
Reply:If you do throw in with him, there goes Saturday (and Sunday) night.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set