zoning nightmare

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When I moved to town 21 years ago the code enforcement officer told me I could make the bungalo on the property of the house I was renting into a welding shop one day when I could afford it. It took me five years to save for a down payment to buy the property. Ten more I rented out the bungalo as a condition of holding the mortgage and I finally had enough equity to refinance and get some welding equipment. So, what happens? I go to apply to finally start the business and they say my block isn't zoned for light manufacturing anymore. Twenty years of living in a commercial zone and listening to the noise from all the nearby businesses and now when it's finally my turn at bat the rat bastards want to take it away from me. To make insult injury they hand me a bunch of papers for appealing the zoning decision. I'd have to give notorized notification to every homeowner for 200 yards and supply 15 copies of each to the council, put ads in the paper of my intent and pay a whole bunch of fees probably totaling about a thousand dollars for a few precious minutes of the town councils time before they ultimatly probably turn me down anyway.  Worse yet there has been rampant stealing of peoples properties here on the Jersey shore by the Government through eminent domain Rumor has it that our town is targeted. Mostly because they tripled everyones tax assesment 96% of the people who lived here five years ago have left. No new businesses have come to town in the last five years. Most existing businesses change hands every couple years and there are many storefronts that have sat empty for years. The only thing the town of Highlands has succeeded in recruiting is the bloods and cripts gangs thanks to their policy of buying up contracts to take in section eight housing recipients. People are getting murdered here now. Yesterday a guy a block away got caught with an AK47. I think that since towns are legally justified to seize houses through eminent domain in blighted areas that the town is actively orchestrating blight in part by using thier ability to strangle business through code enforcement (an obvious criminal conflict of interest the kelo decision addresses saying essentially that we have to trust our government not to act on this conflict of interest granted them). That's unAmerican. We have a saying here in America; "IN GOD WE TRUST". I think maybe those justices ought to be made to repeat that a few times so they don't forget it. That's why I feel my business was turned down and why it would be again if I appealed. Why would they nurture small business start ups that may take years to pay off like they did back when that was the only game in town when now they can sell your home out from under you for big giant pay offs and campaign contributions from developers? So, I've been using my rejected business as a home business/storage for my mobile welding business for the last year and a half and now they want to shut that down (I got a ticket for having an illegal welding shop with no merchantile license) undoubtedly so they can force me out too.  It's all just so unfair, the Kelo decision the supreme court made destroyed the freedom and right to own property for the common man by throwing it to the mercy of the whims and corruptions of local government. Judges are instructed to respect peoples rights, if for no other reason then to ensure their own rights are respected. If the supreme court thinks revanue is more important than rights they should save government a buck by being made into lampshades for the city hall because nothing blights a free country more than those who would take that freedom away. If as they claim it were the intent of our forefathers to saddle us with a government based on blind trust, and the right to own property we've enjoyed for the last 200 years was just some kind of mistake then the revolution must have been a mistake too since that was just the kind of government we ejected. And if that's the case, well then I guess then it should be up to the queen of England to decide whether I should be allowed a welding shop.  HELP! how am I going to fight these bastards? Has anybody else here ran into this sort of B.S.? On the one hand I should probably just leave but that would give them their victory and that just ****es me off. On the other I've heard that in eminent domain settlements you get more if you have a business and I'd at least like to score that minor victory. Insight, ideas anyone?Last edited by 12,000 Doors; 11-29-2006 at 12:31 AM.
Reply:Im sorry its a major pain but its happening in ct also. My dad has had the same "zoning problem".  We have 4 acres of land set back off of the road.  He has an excavation buisness with a couple of machines which are on the job 95 percent of the time.My neihbor had 3 huge ancient machines on his property for probably 10 years.  My dad and him got into a fight, so what does he do?  he moves the machines off his property, and the next day calls zoning on my dads equipment.  Hes no longer allowed to bring them back to the house for any reason.  What do they expect us to do, buy separate land to operate these small businesses?  Although his equipment is a little more obvious than your welding equipment it is still the same idea.Also, hes had his demo license for 30 years.  He left the partnership he was in, the secretary used to handle renewals, so this year he forgot to renew it.  So what they told him is he has to start from scratch.  He has REDUE they apreticeship hours he has allready done, and a bunch of other bs.  It is not easy.  Just think about it, you dont forget something you have been doing for that long.....Why waste this time?  Because they cant bend the stupid rules that never should have been put inplace.  Some how hes kept his cool through all this, i know i would have lost it a long time ago.Just goes to show how messed up this country is, and how the large corperations own us.  it ruins my hopes of starting up my own buisness.ryan
Reply:I hate to hear stuff like this.  However, this is a case where "local government" is at the root of the problem.  The whole blight-related eminent domain issue has spun out of control in some places.  Some states have passed laws restricting the ability of local govs from exercising that power except under very clear situations.  Taking reasonably well-kept private property for the purposes of turning it over to another private individual or business to pump up tax base is just a slap in the face, in my opinion.However, on the issue of zoning, you were supposed to be notified of any change in zoning for your property before it originally was changed...at least that's the way it works in most states that I know of.  If it's worth it, you probably should consult with an attorney on this one.  If they have plans for your area, you may have no chance of reverting it back to light industrial on your own.  Like the late Warren Zevon sang, "send lawyers, guns and money."  If your area requires official notification (like through the local newspaper) for a zoning change, you should ask for them to provide evidence that your local government did that.  If you have a local law school, there might be a free legal clinic that you can talk with a lawyer before plopping down the money.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:I hate to hear this stuff too.  But hold onto your wallets and watch Texas over the next few years.  Good ole Rick Perry signed a contract with HB Zachry and Centra Corp (Company out of Spain I think) to pull off the biggest land grab since the Louisianna purchase. They will be taking a mile wide swath of land from Mexico straight north through Texas to eventually make it to Kansas for the Trans Texas Corridor project. Perry had the contract sealed by the courts so that it can't fall under the "Public Information Act" so no-one gets to know what he committed to. No-one along the Trans Texas Corridor (private landowners) will be allowed to own or develop frontage property because all of the frontage is included in the contract and will be owned by HB Zachry and Centra.  That's every gas station, restaurant etc.I wonder just how much of a kick back Perry will get from this.  Texas is right now certifying as many local courts as they can throughout the entire area to be able to hear eminent domain and condemnation hearings to speed up the process of taking land.  Thank god for the second amendment.
Reply:Be carful about conceding to that  “…ticket for having an illegal welding shop with no merchantile license”. It may be the cornerstone to your ultimate use rights. Is it a criminal or civil charge? Accused may assume it’s just a money fine, when in fact it is groundwork to show that you “knew” your use was illegal and should not be allowed to continue. By requesting a variance you are conceding the fact that your use is not compatible with the permitted uses. You are now in a position of asking (begging) for something that you may clearly be entitled to if looked at from some other perspective.If your use predates the code and has been continuous you may be entitled to continue to enjoy (a legal term) your property with “grandfather” or “Non-conforming” use rights. This is usually contingent on being able to prove an on going continuous practice of the exempt use. Continuous, will be a locally defined time period. Could be as short  as 30 days. Make sure you can prove that you “enjoy” your use on a continuous basis. What’s the zoning of the property now? Are neighbors enjoying the type of use you seek? Good Luck
Reply:You make a good point, denrep.  Asking for a re-zoning or a variance might be equal to an admission of guilt.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Thanks for all the advice guys although my head is kind of spinning, at least I have a bunch more intelligent questions to ask a lawyer. Too bad I don't really trust lawyers though. You see, the problem with lawyers is that their reluctantant to stand against the legal industry having too much power which is very much the root of the nightmare. Denrep, I did ask for a business permit but I never appealed or asked for a variance. Yesterday, I went to court for this but it didn't get settled. The summons for no mechantile license and having an illegal welding shop was made out to my wife and all I succeeded in doing was getting him to write the summons out to me. He took me out into the hall and tried to settle the matter with me I guess by triing to scare me out of business. He said I had a sign for a welding shop and I said "No I didn't, I had a sign for a mobile welding business". He said it meant I welded at home and I said "No it didn't, I've seen signs for pool cleaning but that doesn't mean they take home the pool to clean it."   Currently I live across the street from a clam warehouse that has trucks idling all hours to keep their refrigeration units operating. The town gave me a list of approved businesses that welding wasn't on. Light manufacturing used to be on the list and according to some in town there is actually a couple lists and light manufacturing is on the other list that they hand to people who apply for permits for businesses on the list they handed me. That way apparently they can charge the giant variance application fee to more people.   I'm not really sure I follow you on the "Can I prove continuous use thing". Do you mean hobby or profesional? I've been welding on the property for twenty years but I only got a business license last year a month before I applied for the business permit. I don't have much proof I've been welding for years though (I have a few pictures from when I built a peddle powered helicopter for Red Bull Flugtag NYC 2003).  Smithboy,I don't recall any notice of a zoning changes but that's definately something I'll check into. As for the local government being the root of the problem I have to disagree. If it weren't for the supreme court illegaly legislating to redefine eminent domain as to include land redistribution in the Kelo decision our right to own property would be intact and local governments ability to stomp on our civil right to "aquire, enjoy, own and dispose of property" (American Jurisprudence 2d, civil rights defined) would not exist.  383bigblock + gshawr98,  These are just the kind of stories that make me think our government needs a major, major overhaul. It's tyranny approaching the 27 reasons laid out in the Declaration of Independance explaining our split from the crown. When I figure out how to deal with it I'll let you know.  Once again thanks all for the input.Last edited by 12,000 Doors; 11-29-2006 at 09:44 PM.
Reply:12000 Doors,So you have been issued some sort of a license last year, that’s a good start. Your dealing with at least a two edged sword. All angles need to be considered. For example consider this scenario: A- Let’s say you prove you weren’t running a welding business; All right then that’s fine, we drop the charges, but don’t start a welding business okay? B- Let’s say you acknowledge that you have been running a welding business for so many years; Yes, I have been running a welding business continuously for so many years. And I have had a  business license now since last year. Sorry I guess I didn’t feel I needed a permit, maybe this charge is valid, but my continuous use clearly predates the code. Where do I pick up my permit? I don’t want to be out of compliance again. Sorry to say, but you had better consider all questions to be cagey talk with the specific purpose of garnering information or admissions from you. You need to uncover the real motive behind the prosecution. It probably isn’t to collect a variance fee or a simple fine. My opinion is that the cheap ticket would be an easy way to get a person to come to court and deny a certain activity on the record. Now if the said activity is noticed to occur, it certainly is a new activity and there can be no argument of preexisting use rights.  Maybe your core business could change to a more readily permissible use, and welding certainly can be an adjunct to many other types of business. For example, a repair shop.You need to find out:The exact wording of the law being enforced. Is this law applicable to your situation?What is the zone class of this property? What uses are permitted in this zone?What is the history of zoning enactment and changes?Keep your chin up!Last edited by denrep; 11-29-2006 at 11:07 PM.
Reply:Did you say that there is a clam warehouse across the street from you?That’s odd, because I have been considering the concept of an adult entertainment complex and bearded clam museum. Your property seems like it could be perfect.I hope to embody large metal artwork which expresses the character of my museum and entertainment complex, yet acknowledges the rich albeit  repulsive history of the property as a welding shop. I hope to commission artist zapster to create a larger than life work  “stainless dudes” as the central theme.Could I approach the officials with my concept? That way if your current use is squelched, there would still be hope for the property and area?
Reply:I guess the reason I feel this problem is at the feet of local government is that they are the ones that actually use eminant domain to redistribute rather than for truely public uses.  Feds are not as apt to do that.  States do it sometimes, but not terribly often.  However, I agree that the courts have dropped the ball on this one.  Public use needs to be more narrowly defined.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepDid you say that there is a clam warehouse across the street from you?That’s odd, because I have been considering the concept of an adult entertainment complex and bearded clam museum. Your property seems like it could be perfect.I hope to embody large metal artwork which expresses the character of my museum and entertainment complex, yet acknowledges the rich albeit  repulsive history of the property as a welding shop. I hope to commission artist zapster to create a larger than life work  “stainless dudes” as the central theme.Could I approach the officials with my concept? That way if your current use is squelched, there would still be hope for the property and area?
Reply:snickerPerhaps you have suggested an easy solution to his problem.He could disguise his welding business as a strip joint and name it "SOME LIKE IT HOT" since probably adult entertainment isn't on that rejected list.
Reply:To clarify, I got a basic business license from the state but when I went for a use change permit from the town I got shot down. So, instead of a business I went for a home business. Now they say that's illegal so I have to claim to only work from my truck because that's apparently the only scraps I can get from the table. If that doesn't work I' try opening a combination Jiffy Lube/titty bar and call it Jiffy Boob.
Reply:Jiffy Boob And The Bearded Calm... sounds like an action flick. Oooh, exciting!If you don't have the time to do it right, then you definitely don't have the time to do it over.
Reply:Round seven coming up later today.To recap:  Round one;  Nov06' They made out ticket to my wife. I went to court and they told me to come back when they rewrote the ticket to me.  Round two; I went to court and they didn't get to me by the end of the session.  Round three; I declared I was fighting the ticket on constitutional grounds and they said I would have to come back so they could involve the borough attorney. Round four; My face swelled up with a dental absess and the only appointment i could get to fix it was during court. I called up to cancel but they insisted I show up to see if they could bump me to the head of the line. They didn't.  Round five; I get tried. Judge says I may be victim of conlict of interest but doesn't care. Code inforcement officer says I live in residential area but I live in business district. Judge says bottom line is I live in residential neighborhood and can't do dangerous welding with dangerous acetyline. I don't have map, I lose, $100.00 fine and 30 dollars fee. No borough attorney present by the way.  Round six; I file appeal, $125.00 transcript fee, $75 dollar appeal fee. There's no new trial just a review of the transcript. Superior court judge says I was never sworn in, vacates judgement and sends case back to municipal judge for do over.  Round seven preveiw; This time their making me go to court two towns over, why I don't know. I'm bringing map and transcript. Will Bay Valley Ornimental Iron survive? Or will the bastards win? Stay tunedLast edited by 12,000 Doors; 08-08-2007 at 01:13 AM.
Reply:I am sure things are more complicated than just use of acetylene.  However, you could eliminate acetylene.  Use or have city gas piped into your shop.I wish you well.  It seems like they are giving you ammunition each time you go to court.  I think you will end up all information you need to state your case clearly.
Reply:I do NOT have a working knowledge of New Jersey Zoning laws. Having said this, Cities and town have enacted a comprehensive zoning act. This act has been implemented over the last ten or fifteen years and you may be "grandfathered" in.  As far as eminiate domain,  City Manager Richard Brown started this in New London, Connecticut approximately 4 years ago. The case went to The United States Supreme Court and New London won ( go figure).  Most state were outraged and passed eminiate domain laws that limited the taking of personal property by E.D. only for the use of highways etc. Get yourself a lawyer and fight this. You most probably pre-date the existing zoning laws and have a great chance of winning this case, then counter sue the municipality for the legal fees. Most municipalities will settle because the cost of the trial will exceed the cost of the settlement.Mike
Reply:Nightmare indeed!  And your brand of Jersey justice has filtered across the Delaware river into eastern Pennsylvania.  Now we have to put up with the same ignorant thinking.  Exactly why I'm selling the farm and moving to a township in western Pennsylvania that has absolutely no zoning laws, except a need for a perc test to determine if leachbed or sandmound type sewage system.I guess the old sage was right when he said, "You can't fight city hall."I go to Atlantic Highlands for party boat fishing.  Although not for much longer.WeldingWeb forum--now more sophomoric banter than anything else!
Reply:Why not hire an attorney to try to keep your rights in this matter? It sounds like you may have waited too long but an attorney skilled in zoning law could perhaps change things for you. It would be cheaper than paying fines. It sounds like you want to do this all yourself. Yeah, I know. everybody hates attorneys.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Originally Posted by 12,000 Doors...Superior court judge says I was never sworn in, vacates judgement and sends case back to municipal judge...Round seven preveiw; This time their making me go to court two towns over, why I don't know...
Reply:It is rumored that Sandra Day O'Connor quit the Supreme Court because of the Kelo decision.On an unrelated matter I read this decision in its entirety about 3 weeks ago. It is definitely worth reading even though it will probably make you sick to your stomach.Oh, by the way, the lawyers are the cause of all this. They wrote the laws that keep reducing our former freedom. I wonder how much longer anyone will still refer to the USA as the land of the free? How about the land of the over regulated and heavily taxed.
Reply:Originally Posted by jrfvOh, by the way, the lawyers are the cause of all this. They wrote the laws that keep reducing our former freedom. I wonder how much longer anyone will still refer to the USA as the land of the free? How about the land of the over regulated and heavily taxed.
Reply:Round seven; Took the day off showed up bright and early and found out court was yesterday. DOH! Apparently I dislexed on the notice and eight was the month not the day, either that or the notice was wrong I don't know, I can't find it. Whatever, round eight is 8:30 a.m. August 21. My life in pergatory continues. Phila renewal;   I never felt powerless and I am a member of the Castle Coalition against eminent domain abuse. Sometimes it might be the right thing to do is get in the judges face and tell him what a lawyer would be too butt licky to have the nerve to because things will never change if the powers at be don't know exactly how ****ed off we are about not having our rights not respected. I wish I had enough for a lawyer though. Last time I compared the situation to the twenty seven reasons given in the Declaration of Independence that took down the last government.  tapwelder;  I plan on lighting into them about equal protection undetr the law next time with regards to acetyline. I mean I'll give it up, if the prosecuter gives up gas in his car natural gas in his housepropane in is barbeque and butane in his lighter otherwise forget it. Thanks to everybody for giving me more to think about.
Reply:Originally Posted by 12,000 DoorsRound seven; Took the day off showed up bright and early and found out court was yesterday...   round eight is August 21...
Reply:The way it is now..Unless the property is "GrandFathered"...Your screwed...Plain and simple..The shop where I am now has been there since 1958..As long as it's in the same Familys name they can do what they want....We have Condo's on 3 sides of the shop..We make lots of noise with the doors open @ 5:45 A.M.Nobody can say anything...And they don't..Unless you have been there forever..Your outta luck.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.Originally Posted by zapsterThe way it is now..Unless the property is "GrandFathered"...Your screwed...Unless you have been there forever..Your outta luck......zap!
Reply:Well I guess here in Mass we can get away with it..This place is so 50'S it would blow your mind..We have Insurance..They tell us what we need minimum..I once asked my brother what it would take to just get the electric up to code.."One month of shutdown" was his reply.. Grandfathered property is a quickly dying thing.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I have been dealing with a similar situation here in my county.  Back in 2001 our county adopted a set of zoning laws, and basically not enforced any of them.  Now because of a couple of VERY contraversial rezoning applications.  The local government is going buck wild enforcing laws that no one has any idea exists.  We live in one of the poorest counties in the state as well as the smallest.  A VERY rural county to say the least farming is the main driving force.  Well it just so happens that some of us are now being told that we are going to have to rezone our homes because our business is based out of them.  I even have a shop located on the same lot as my home.  I called my 2 uncles (both lawyers)  and since I started business in 1999 before the zoning laws were adopted they can not touch me as far as the zoning goes.  However there are quite a few that will wind up with a mess because of this.   Well now I am being hit with the "business license"  tactic.  They asked me do I have a business license.  I reply I never knew I needed one.  Appearantly that was also part of the zoning laws that were adopted.  I show up at that the county commissioner meeting and bring it up, basically throw a fit.  I know every commissioner on the board and have done work for three of the five.  NOTHING has been said to any of these businesses who have not had a license until now, and we are made to feel like we have been in the wrong.   Well now I have a business license application submitted showing I have been in business since 1999, and just now applying.  However the kicker is I have to show that date to avoid the rezoning issue.  I boggles me as to why counties bitch about not being able to bring in varying types of business when all they do is over complicate the situation when someone does consider one.     My last words at the commissioners meeting was that if this is not settled quickly and fairly then I would uproot my business and move it to they adjoining county (2 miles away) and they could get the tax money off of it.  The outcome has yet to be seen.  12,000 doors,  I can feel for ya, but I would not give up without a fight!I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......