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Attachment 12856Believe it or not the above pic is of the second shipment of low hydrogen electrodes, delivered by UPS where the hermetically sealed can was popped open allowing the moisture-laden atmosphere to contaminate the rods. You can see that the pull tabs are still flat...rough treatment somewhere along the line squished the fragile aluminum cans allowing them to open. The red plastic end caps, (not in the pic) were laying askew with the packing paper.Immediately after I opened the first shipment, I called Welding Supply, Inc. https://weldingsupply.securesites.co...ogs.pl?UNDEF:: to notify them. They said to pitch this junk and they would send out another shipment. I tried to tell them that, in my opinion, bunched up brown paper wasn't sufficient package protection. They didn't want to hear it. I offered to send them pictures. They refused them.It took some time for the second box to arrive as they were out of stock on both 7018 and 7018-1 for more than a week. The second box was marked 'fragile' but instead of the pop tops pointed up were the most fragile end of the can would be protected, you guessed it, they were in upside down. I called again, and another person said to wait for UPS to make a damage assessment. Even though Weldingsupply.com had my money for over a month, and through no fault of my own 2 shipments were damaged, I was forced to wait to get what I already paid for.After 5 days I emailed UPS, asking when they were coming to check out the damage. Their reply was to hold on to the goods and packaging and if after 5 'business' days they didn't contact me, I could dispose of everything. UPS never contacted me. Weldingsupply.com informed me today to package up all 40 pounds of damaged rods, ship them back to them, on my dime and then, and only then, would I get my VISA credited. And they refused to send any more, saying that UPS would likely damage any future fragile electrode orders. I refused their one-sided offer. Then they said I could keep all 40 pounds, that I was getting double of what I paid for. I already paid for shipping from them to me, I don't feel the need to pay once again...and certainly not for both damaged shipments. I'm sure they got reimbursed from UPS. I sent in a VISA dispute form to contest these charges.A supervisor who claimed to have 40 years of welding experience claimed that even though the cans were open, the contents were in perfect shape...x-ray quality. That's pure BS in my experience.Am I wrong in this matter? I followed all instructions. Am I being unreasonable? Like I told everyone at weldingsupply.com who answered the phone, I would not have complained for any other type of rods, ie, 6011, 6013 or even 7014. But I paid for and expected viable Lincoln Electric Excalibur rods in factory-fresh, airtight containers. Why am I being made out to be the bad guy?In any event, think twice about doing business with weldingsupply.com. They'll certainly not get my business again.Last edited by 69 chevy; 09-26-2007 at 06:59 PM.WeldingWeb forum--now more sophomoric banter than anything else!
Reply:That sucks. You have a valid point, and did everything in your power to help the supplier in getting you the product you ordered. Obviously the supplier is not going to help you at this point, may as well give up on them. As you know, you can rebake these and then store in an oven.
Reply:By rights they should send you an RO and a prepaid shipping label. Sure you can re bake them, but opening a new tin is like poping a fresh beer, just better.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Unfortunately I don't have, or know of anyone close by, who has a rebake oven. But that point is moot...I followed instructions and disposed of rods and packaging. Open cans of low hydrogen rods, to me, are junk. And got trashed.Decades ago I signed the Lincoln Electric weldor's pledge...to never knowingly make a bad weld. I try to live up to my commitments. I didn't want to be tempted using inferior rods just because they were at hand. So when I got the word, they got tossed.Last edited by 69 chevy; 09-26-2007 at 07:31 PM.WeldingWeb forum--now more sophomoric banter than anything else!
Reply:You should have no problem getting visa to reverse the charges. I think you are in the right especially considering the weight of the items that you would have to pay to ship. The 7018 will re-bake but Tozzi's right its just not the same and it definately is not what you paid for.Good Luck and keep us posted.MichaelMillermatic 25115" Rockwell Drill Press10" Logan Lathe5hp - 2-stage 80 Gallon CompressorHome Made Sand / Soda Blaster
Reply:It looks like they were chewed open by a raccoon!I've seen things like this happening when the shipper saw a "suspicious package" and opened it. With all the "homeland security" excuses today, they will open any package that thy can't identify and it's now YOUR problem.
Reply:I say what you do is go around to other welding forums, ie hobart, miller and post this there. Then Email WeldingWeb.com and give them all of the links. Considering how they are an online company il put money on it that they will straighten up really quick.
Reply:VISA is your friend in this one... The magic sentence is "I did not get what I ordered." and you did not. You ordered two NEW unopened tins of rods.You have contacted the seller and they are now unwilling to correct the problem?The seller may NOT have gotten that shipping refunded by UPS since they did not meet UPS's requirements for packing the items. DU! But that is not your problem! If the seller wants a product back tell them to send a "call tag" for it. They can work out the shipping charges with UPS, not you. You may also be able to file a concealed damages claim with UPS and hand them the product and get a check. I thing everything up to ??$250?? is still automatically insured.Me!
Reply:Your right 100%. Too bad it can be such a long hard battle sometimes, but it can. No more accepting UPS deliveries unless they are opened in front of the driver. If it's damaged don't accept it. Make the battle between UPS and the supplier.
Reply:That stinks!You call Visa and tell them you dispute the charge, that you did not get what you ordered. Write down and document all calls, paperwork, and what not for your records. Include contact names, dates, times, pictures, etc in your write-up as well.You can also file a report with the Better Business Bureau. They won't do much if anything, but it is a 'black mark' against the seller.And I think "Fragile" on a UPS package means "drop twice and then push it off the loading dock".
Reply:They will... If the person you get on the phone is a a$$ hang up and call back.VISA will contact the seller and give them an opportunity to contest the charge back, that is why you need the records. VISA will credit the amount back to you but if the seller is awarded the payment they will charge you again.Good Luck and keep us posted... Me!
Reply:Well what a coincidence!I too was about to post about this same supplier. They shorted me one item on my order. When I called to resolve it the cust service rep was really rude! I have since received two emails promising to ship the part but nothing has arrived in several weeks. I emailed the owner and he was a total jerk insisting that I must call to resolve this issue even though I explained I wasn't going to call anymore after his rep had treated me like that. He said not one word of regret over the unpleasantness on the phone. Also, his website promises 24/7 email support - yet I have to call and speak to those jerks again. @#$%! and double @#$%!355# Hay Budden3# Hofi HammerPropane ForgeIdealarc TIG 300/300AllStates Oxy Propane torchSmith Little Torch
Reply:Maddog, you just made my day! I do hope your problem gets straightened out to your satisfaction.They had me convinced that I alone had this problem. They had me on speakerphone and the owner was talking in the background, while a 'supervisor' was talking to me, that maybe I was pulling a scam on them. I find that shameless. If I had it in me to scam someone, it certainly wouldn't be for $40+ of welding rods.I have already filed a complaint with the Chicago area BBB. I'll also fill out a complaint form with the attorney general's office of consumer affairs here in PA.But that will have to wait until I return from attending the annual open house at the final assembly plant of Harley-Davidson in York, PA.WeldingWeb forum--now more sophomoric banter than anything else!
Reply:UPS/Fedex etc won't let you open the package before accepting it, signing, unless it's in a damaged state, open, torn crushed or possibly wet. That's not to say a good Courier won't let you, but their policy is not to do that and then you really only have two options refuse it as damaged or accept it having them mark it as being damaged to expedite the claims process, hopefully. You can, if you have the time and will, write up reviews of businesses like this and post them on www.bizrate.com, www.epinions.com, and www.resellerratings.com as well as on the welding forums.It seems pretty dumb they went to the trouble to have someone single out your order and slap fragile aka 'shipper try to bust this open' stickers on it but not have them try to package it better.
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseAnd I think "Fragile" on a UPS package means "drop twice and then push it off the loading dock".
Reply:UPS will get your broken and damaged parts to you on time, every time! I ordered my Lincoln SP175 plus from a Lincoln dealer who sells on eBay. No problem until it arrived. They had not done any extra packing. That is, they shipped it in the retail carton with no extra packaging. The result was that the entire front of the machine was totally smashed and pushed in 2 inches when I got it. I took pictures and e-mailed both the seller and the Lincoln company here in California. Within 24 hours, they authorized a new replacement machine. They even shipped the replacement, properly packed, by a commercial carrier (not UPS). The carrier picked up the broken machine and the whole exchange took only three days! I was quite pleased. So this was partly the fault of the seller combined with UPS and Lincoln stood behind the transaction even though they could have blown me off and let me worry about the problem on my own. They are a standup company in my book!With regard to your welding rods, I would probably have just stored them and notified my credit card company that the matter was "in dispute". They will charge the seller back and they won't pay until you are satisfied.Good luck. Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:I've had relatively good experiences with weldingsupply.com I ordered a Smith torch setup from them, they drop shipped it from the manufacturer which took a very long time. Everything else I've ordered has come quickly and undamaged.I think your beef should be with UPS. Their package handling is crap. You can't hold the retailer entirely responsible. Weldingsupply.com probably should have strapped the electrode cans to a small board/pallet because of their weight. But, where I work, even when properly packaged, UPS still manages to mess things up. We have customers who order a specific brand of motor which usually ships UPS. It seems like 1 in 10 of the motors is damaged beyond use when we get them. When we ship through UPS, we have to strap everything down to larger pallets because we know it will get trashed otherwise.
Reply:But still it should not be the customers battle the retailer should take care of the problem and go at it with UPS. They are UPS's customer and UPS will do more for them than a consumer.Me!
Reply:I was once an unloader for UPS...we worked FAST...I still remember the night that we got a bunch of windshields (who the heck ships windshields through UPS?!?!?) with just cardboard on both sides, taped up. They got caught in the narrow opening of a conveyer system and every package behind them piled up on them until...pop...pop...pop...pop...My superviser was hot under the collar...but, they got to the conveyer undamaged...We did try to keep things from getting broken, but we didn't have too much time to assure it. The ace ventrua scene was great...Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Originally Posted by 76GMC1500I think your beef should be with UPS.
Reply:Update:Well my missing item from WeldingSupply arrived yesterday. Which is good but doesnt change my opinion of them. I have ordered from them several times before and been happy with the results but I wont again. I have no problem with a mistake in an order. It happens. But something like that should be resolved quickly and politely. This took several weeks, five emails and a phone call that was very unpleasant. I emailed the owner, Lidbury, to try and clear this up and his response was utterly unhelpful and acrimonious. In Chevy69's case, I would say it was their responsibility to deliver the goods in good condition. They are an internet merchant specializing in mail order. It was their responsibility to pack a heavy item so that would arrive safely despite UPS best efforts and when that didnt happen it was their responsibility to set things right at their expense and to do it quickly and pleasantly. (Actually, from the way the lids are popped, it seems to me the cans were already open when packed). To treat a customer with suspicion as if he were trying to scam them in such a case is just unacceptable.My order was a box of small items and it came missing some #2 welding cable which is not the end of the world. I am just glad I didnt order an expensive item such as a welding machine from them. Imagine having to wrangle with them over a damaged $5000 welder?355# Hay Budden3# Hofi HammerPropane ForgeIdealarc TIG 300/300AllStates Oxy Propane torchSmith Little Torch
Reply:VISA charged back 100% of my product cost and $10 for prorated shipping costs. YEAH!!! Thanks VISA. I got my money back but it still cost me a month's worth of grief and a bunch of long distance phone bills. So I still came out on the short end of the stick.Now I need to find another, better, online welding supplier. You might ask why I don't shop local? Because I seem to live in millerland. Every LWS tries to push off other brands on me. One even went so far as to say that their house brand was repackaged Lincoln Excalibur rods. And others say they will only order a 60# container, minimum. I just might have to switch to Hobart 418 low hydrogen rods in a plastic box from cyberweld.com. But I really like those Excaliburs!No word yet from the Chicago area Better Business Bureau. PA bureau of consumer affairs only acknowledged that they received my complaint...no action taken so far.EWS welding, dba, welding supply.com I hope this teaches you a lesson. I don't post on other welding forums, but I encourage anyone who does to post a link to this thread to warn others just how crappy this e-tailer treats their customers. Buyer beware!WeldingWeb forum--now more sophomoric banter than anything else!
Reply:How about IOC?www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.comThey list 50# of Lincoln Excalibur 7018MR here http://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.co...7018-MR/DetailThey also list smaller cans of other Lincoln rods. 5 lb packs of Lincoln Jetweld 78MR (7018) or LH7018AC (7018 H8), etc.
Reply:I hope all the welders read this who think only Miller provides good customer service. My VISA bank wanted more info about low-hydrogen electrodes and my reasoning for not accepting opened, but resealable containers. I emailed Lincoln's customer service via their online form to get the company policy right from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Vic Matthews answered my email but not my question. He wanted to know more about what started this whole escapade. After trading a few emails back and forth, he sent out 2 guys that hand delivered the two 10# cans of Excalibur 7018 rods plus another two cans for all my trouble...unopened, hermetically sealed, factory fresh cans like I should have gotten in the first place. Doug Stauffer is a local Lincoln rep and Bob Sommer is a district sales engineer. They answered all of my questions, acknowledged that opened containers are not the norm, and apologized for all the false accusations made by WeldingSupply.com. I've now got both of their business cards and the assurance that they are on my side if I ever encounter problems getting any Lincoln Electric products in the future. Thanks Vic, Bob and Doug. Perhaps, with their assistance, I can turn this marketing area from Miller country into Lincoln country.I also learned a little about Lincoln's electrode manufacturing process. Like many consumer products, electrode containers have a sort of 'born on date.' Included in the code is the initials of the 2 employees who made them. I believe Bob said Lincoln manufacturing plant employees averaged 6 figures per anum! That's big bucks for a factory worker. However, he said, it comes with responsibility. If a defect is found after the product leaves the door and it can be traced back to a specific worker, they get 1 act of grace. The second gets them fired from their high paying job. That's a pretty good incentive for "doing it right the first time."So after 10 weeks, I finally got what I paid for, plus something extra for my trouble. Lincoln Electric intervened to make things right even though they had nothing to do with the cause. Thanks, Big Red.WeldingWeb forum--now more sophomoric banter than anything else!
Reply:That's a great story of customer satisfaction.Noadays, witht eh internet - good news as well as bad travels pretty quick.I know who i won't order from simply from your experience.That looks to me like those rods were on a high altitude aircraft. That would pop the tops due to pressure change in a cargo hold.SA200,Ranger8,Trailblazer251NT,MM250,Dayton225AC,T D-XL75,SpoolMate3545SGA100C,HF-15-1 RFCS-14 When I stick it, it stays stuck!
Reply:Upon 1st glance of the pic, I thought it was a picture of 2 refreshing 40 oz beer cans in a brown paperbag! AAAaaahhhhh No really thats a bummer with the welding rods...NickoliIf I can't fix it, Its probably not broke.... Yeah Right!~ Damn I let out the factory installed smoke again ! ~
Reply:I love a happy ending Victor SuperRanger O/A Solar migLincoln Powermig 140Southbend 9in lathe350# kohlswa anvilMiller Maxstar 150 stl etc....
Reply:I will give credit to EWS, WeldingSupply.com for emailing me the UPS package tracking numbers. No air freight was involved in these 2 shipments...except the normal harsh treatment of "fragile" packages by the ground freight conveyors and material handlers.Yesterday, UPS delivered a 1 1\4" diameter, hardened steel backhoe pivot pin, that couldn't be hurt if it was purposely dropped onto concrete, that was packed with better materials and greater care than these 2 shipments of aluminum electrode containers.Anybody like to wager that the EWS employee who packed these fragile cans, had no idea that the contents became contaminated the first time the carton flopped off a 4' high conveyor belt and 'popped' the tops?WeldingWeb forum--now more sophomoric banter than anything else!
Reply:Originally Posted by 69 chevyI hope all the welders read this who think only Miller provides good customer service. My VISA bank wanted more info about low-hydrogen electrodes and my reasoning for not accepting opened, but resealable containers. I emailed Lincoln's customer service via their online form to get the company policy right from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Vic Matthews answered my email but not my question. He wanted to know more about what started this whole escapade. After trading a few emails back and forth, he sent out 2 guys that hand delivered the two 10# cans of Excalibur 7018 rods plus another two cans for all my trouble...unopened, hermetically sealed, factory fresh cans like I should have gotten in the first place. Doug Stauffer is a local Lincoln rep and Bob Sommer is a district sales engineer. They answered all of my questions, acknowledged that opened containers are not the norm, and apologized for all the false accusations made by WeldingSupply.com. I've now got both of their business cards and the assurance that they are on my side if I ever encounter problems getting any Lincoln Electric products in the future. Thanks Vic, Bob and Doug. Perhaps, with their assistance, I can turn this marketing area from Miller country into Lincoln country.I also learned a little about Lincoln's electrode manufacturing process. Like many consumer products, electrode containers have a sort of 'born on date.' Included in the code is the initials of the 2 employees who made them. I believe Bob said Lincoln manufacturing plant employees averaged 6 figures per anum! That's big bucks for a factory worker. However, he said, it comes with responsibility. If a defect is found after the product leaves the door and it can be traced back to a specific worker, they get 1 act of grace. The second gets them fired from their high paying job. That's a pretty good incentive for "doing it right the first time."So after 10 weeks, I finally got what I paid for, plus something extra for my trouble. Lincoln Electric intervened to make things right even though they had nothing to do with the cause. Thanks, Big Red.
Reply:IrishBrewer, EWS kept pointing to their terms and conditions statement. But MY welds are MY responsiibility; I signed the Lincoln Electric welder's pledge decades ago. The leg I had to stand on was that ownership had not transferred to me as I refused a damaged shipment. I called to tell them that and to find out how to proceed. I didn't care who was to blame for opened containers. All I know is that nowhere in their terms does it say that I'm expected to pay the shipping costs and accept delivery of opened containers of premium 7018 Excalibur low-hydrogen electrodes. I would never do business with EWS again, now that I know how they operate. This thread is my way of warning others of how I was treated as a customer. I've had good experiences online with Cyberweld, Harris, and IOC. But not so good with WeldingSupply.com.WeldingWeb forum--now more sophomoric banter than anything else!
Reply:from the pics you posted and the way the cans are opened , looks like they were opened with a pocket knife , there are to many edges bent up and down ,looks like security inspection on who ever was the carrier for your packages.
Reply:Ive had good luck with welding supply as well. Ive ordered a ton of rods from em. I guess Im lucky that my UPS driver is behaving himself. I am really shocked at how welding supply dealt with your complaint though. Makes me think I might need to look elswhere... Thanks for the heads up.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:I had good luck with weldingsupply.com until this summer when I received the wrong parts and got no satisfaction from their customer service so I don't use them anymore. I had a similar experience with cyberweld.com and Smith on a damaged regulator. I could not even get part numbers from them to fix it myself so I won't do business with them either. I did get a lot of stuff from all of them in good shape but when you have problems they do not try to help you get them fixed. |
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发表于 2021-9-1 00:55:03