Stuck Bottle Cap

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Hello, At work got a new storage yard and I found the previous tenets forgot a Oxygen bottle. I kept it in lost and found (aka in the corner of the warehouse hidden) for 6 months and they never came back for it. I went down to the local welding shop to exchange it and we could not get the cap off of it there. They told me to take it home and get the cap off, then they will exchange it. But I still can not get it off. I tried tapping it with a hammer, using a 48" pipe wrench, and rust remover but it still will not come loose. Any suggestions?
Reply:Heat up the cap just a little to where its almost too hot to touch (Nowhere near Hot)then put Dry Ice around the neck and try to break it free. CAUTION: I am in no way suggesting that you heat it up enough to be dangerous just enough to have it expand just a hair.(This is similar to what we do when we install starter rings on aircraft engine fly wheels. We put the starter ring in the oven at 425 and wait about 15 minutes then it fits over the flywheel. After about 30 minutes it is so tight it can't be budged.)Grant
Reply:spray more of what you have on the threads..let it sit overnight...try to tighten ..yes tighten before backing off the threads.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I agree with Zap first, then GWallace 2nd. Like stuck exhaust manifold bolts Tighten a tiny bit, and then back it off.
Reply:You can also try an old mechanics trick for stuck spark plugs in an aluminum head. Weld a large nut to the top of the cap so you can get an impact on it. Caps cost $7.00 so be prepared to buy on in exchange for a free bottle. (If you're worried about overheating the bottle, wrap a water soaked rag around the cap just below where you're welding to absorb the heat.) Soak the rusted threads very well with Knock-Er-Loose or something similar and let it sit a couple of days. Set your impact on low and rock the cap back and forth. This takes time and patience, you're not trying to get it off with the first try, you just want to break the threads loose and have it move ever so slightly. This will allow the penetrant to move into the threads a little further. The object is to soak...rock...soak...rock. Sometimes it takes 2-3 days to get a plug out with the threads still in the head, but worth the trouble.
Reply:Yeah after thinking (Ha!, Imagine that! ) it would make more sense to try Zap's way first.Grant
Reply:PLEASE DO NOT HEAT UP OR PUT AN OPEN FLAME NEAR THAT OXYGEN CYLINDER!!  http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Paul,I agree not to try and get it too hot maybe 200F or so. I am certinally not suggesting to get it anywhere near hot enough to burn the paint. These bottles sit on trucks all summer long and the bottles routinly get too hot to touch just sitting in the sun. If it were summer time I would say put it outside for a few hours. Also I never said anything about a torch or flame or anything like that. Setting it next to a heating vent is in no way dangerous.Last edited by GWallace; 01-10-2007 at 10:41 PM.Grant
Reply:try pouring a can of coke in there.  amazingly this works.  learned this offshore where salt water air and spray corrodes the h#ll out of everything.
Reply:These thigs are fairly fine threaded for their size, and sometimes not real snug fit either. Once in a while they can get a little cross threaded. People will drop them against the cap and pop them crooked or run them on crooked. Look it over real close to make sure it is straight. Plus the darn things can be sticky. They spin loosely or stick, no in between . More often than not they need a bit of light tapping in the off direction, not a bunch of power reefing. First tho, verify that it is on straight. That'll tell you which way to go next.
Reply:I was told by a motorcycle mechanic a little trick maybe its old but when loosening 30+ years bolts in motorcycle transmisions and engines it is very useful. Even if they are rusted it works!You just hit it with a hammer and some kind of cylindrical solid bar, yeah, just as easy, you hit the bolt with the cylindrical bar and voila!just try to loose it normally. If I knew this before I would dissasemble a tranmision in 1 hour, instead of the 4-5 days letting WD-40 rest and spraying more of it...Maybe that could work...Just don´t hit the valve or you get a nice flying tankLast edited by elvergon; 01-10-2007 at 10:51 PM.My Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:an other type of lube is rubbing alcohol and dish soap equal amounts but if left on mild steel it will rust so wash it off  if heating try a hair dryer no flame there
Reply:reputitous hammering of the collar may make it expand and break loose.
Reply:Try a chisel on the collar. If you hammer a groove in the collar it will expand and let the penetrating oil in to the threads.
Reply:Lay the cylinder down. Straddle it (about like a cylinder rider might!), have your assistant apply some torque with the big pipe wrench. Use a 3lb hammer and a serious chisel to start walking the cap around. If you must, saw a slot in the cap to relieve the concentric pressure.
Reply:is there anygas in it?drill a 1/2 inch hole put a peice of metal in and turn it.and stop saying to oil it whats the first lesson in oqygen?the **** burts into flame when it meets oil.durrKISS...KEEP IT SAFE STUPID
Reply:Originally Posted by TIGBOY.and stop saying to oil it whats the first lesson in oqygen?the **** burts into flame when it meets oil.durr
Reply:Any good welding/gas supplier should have a "cap hook" that can remove the cap for you.I would try another welding supplier....and the oil is dangerous when it is mixed in with the high pressure of the tank, i.e. in the regulator. It can ignite rapidly and violently.I know I'm sounding like the "fun police" about this situation but seriously think about this. Do you guys really think it's smart to hit, grind, drill, weld, heat, and bang on an unknown cylinder that is already supposedly containing a highly pressurized, highly flammable gas?Last edited by ZTFab; 01-11-2007 at 01:54 AM.http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFab...I know I'm sounding like the "fun police" about this situation but seriously think about this. Do you guys really think it's smart to hit, grind, drill, weld, heat, and bang on an unknown cylinder that is already supposedly containing a highly pressurized, highly flammable gas?
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFab...and the oil is dangerous when it is mixed in with the high pressure of the tank, i.e. in the regulator. It can ignite rapidly and violently.
Reply:Right now, the oil is of no significance. If you were to douse the valve in oil, then hook up your regulator and open the valve, the potential for explosion is very high but in this case he's exchanging the bottle so it shouldn't matter. Denrep...let me check my Official Fun Police Handbook, Hold Please......yes, here it is. Page 42, Paragraph 3, subsection C, under "Pressure vessels: Air Tank Bumpers and Cylinder Rodeos."It has a general clause that applies to both situations. It states that the parties involved must be wearing the appropriate safety gear which includes but is not limited to: camoflauge, a cowboy hat, and they must have consumed at least a fifth of Wild Turkey before any tests, experiments, or high pressure cylinder drag races will be considered official. http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:You aren't even supposed to ue anti-seize on the threads for the cap because of the oil.  The only thing safe around oxygen is teflon tape.
Reply:Denrep had the right idea. Relieve the concentric pressure by safely (gaurded properly and careful to not cut the threads on the tank) cutting the cap from the thread line to the slot.  That way you can use a brass wedge it open it up and it should come right off.Hobart 140 Handler w/ gasHyperTherm Powermax 380 Plasmaoxy/acetylene
Reply:Well get ya a 12 pack to knock the edge off (and I never suggest doing anything that I say that starts like that) fire up your torch and sweat that cap off the threads.  I highly DO NOT recommend this and in no way should you attept it.  It would work though DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:Im a little worried that we havent heard back from him.  Hope he didnt hurt himself or end up in jail for setting off o2 rockets.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.Originally Posted by littlefuzzWouldn't you have to have an ignition source?
Reply:Originally Posted by 76GMC1500You aren't even supposed to ue anti-seize on the threads for the cap because of the oil.  The only thing safe around oxygen is teflon tape.
Reply:& when it does it scares the **** outta ya.... Oxygen masks & moustaches spring to mind.....
Reply:Originally Posted by ZRx61Nope, some stuff will spontaneously combust in the presence of 100% Oxygen& when it does it scares the **** outta ya.... Oxygen masks & moustaches spring to mind.....
Reply:I do hope that this is just some sort of lame or sick joke or quiz about spraying the threads on the safety cap with any form of penetrating fluid or any other petroleum based product, because if it isn't, somebody wasn't listening when taking the BASIC OXYGEN CYLINDER SAFETY CLASS 101, or they should go back to school and take it over AGAIN, before they kill themselves or someone else.As a welding instructor, the first thing I teach in O/A class is SAFETY, and the first thing that is taught in that class is KEEP ANY AND ALL OILS AWAY FROM THE VALVES ON OXYGEN BOTTLES. As each of us know, but we don't think much to much about it, since we work with compressed gases each day, is that any compressed cylinder is nothing but a bomb or a missile sitting there, ready to go off, at any time. ANY small mistake on our part can cause an accident which can result in injury or death to ourselves or others around us, not to mention the damage to property and equipment, that such an accident can cause.A few situations that I have witnessed during my years working the construction trade and as a scuba diver.A contractor I worked for set up a O/A cutting rig under a paper machine at a mill that was doing a shutdown. He removed the safety cap and went to get the hoses and regulators. Some hydraulic oil, from the paper machine above, dripped on the valve and he didn't notice it. He installed the regulators and turned on the bottles. As soon as he cracked the valve on the oxygen bottle the valve exploded and he lost 3 of his fingers on his left hand.I was working in a fab shop where a new guy set the hoses on a O/A setup on fire. Before he realized the fire it had spread to the bottles and burnt the regulators. The shop was evacuated and the fire dept. (2 blocks away) was dispatched. By the time they got there the pressure had already bled off and the contents remaining were burning. The fire chief wouldn't let any of his men enter the building and the only thing they did was spray the bottles down with water through a window until the acetylene bottle burnt itself out. No one was hurt, but the water damage was costly, on the equipment. The 6" concrete roof in the area where the bottles had been sitting had about a 12" sky light in it, caused by the burning acetylene bottle. It had acted like the exhaust of a rocket engine and burned through the roof. I attended a OSHA seminar on compressed gases safety years ago and watched a film where a oxygen bottle was set in a pipe, in a laboratory, and the valve was broken off. The test was to show how powerful these bottles can be, in an accident. The bottle was aimed at a cinder block wall 20 feet away with 8 more walls spaced 2 feet apart behind the first. When the valve was snapped off the bottle went through 6 of the walls and cracked the 7th wall.   While working as a volunteer search and rescue diver for the county sheriff's dept. in the early 70's we lost one of our team divers when we got caught in a swift current and one of the divers was slammed into some rocks, in a river, while searching for a drowning victim. The result of the accident was the valve was snapped off when his tank hit the rocks and the escaping air blew the whole backside of his head off. Needless to say that 3000 lbs. psi of air moving through a 1/2" hole packs plenty of force. We were dispatched out to search for 1 victim and we came back with 2.Now, since the threads were sprayed on the safety cap in order to remove it, you have created a safety hazard for yourself, if you were to hook up a regulator and open the main valve. Even if you don't open that valve you've created a MAJOR safety hazard for anyone else who decides to use that bottle. If the safety cap is finally removed after spraying it, wrenching it or pounding on it with a hammer without an accident, I've still got some questions,  What about the unsuspecting poor guy, just trying to make a living like the rest of us, at the refilling plant?  What's going to happen when he opens the valve to refill it? I'm sure he'd rather go home to his family at night rather than being injured of killed by someone else's mistake? Is anyone going to guarantee him that this bottle won't blow up in his face, since it's been sprayed with oil? I don't think so. Oh yea, what about all the rest of the employees that work at that plant, just in case that bottle happens to explode?The best and safest thing that can be done now is, STOP DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING and find someone that KNOWS WHAT TO DO about removing the rusted safety cap, then have the bottle cleaned in order to remove any oil that might have gotten on the valve. Next thing is have that bottle inspected for any damage that might have been caused by the unorthodox and unsafe methods used, during the removel of this cap.Never, never use any type of oil on ANY oxygen bottles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Now I know that there are some out there that won't agree with me and will joke about the comments that I've put in this reply, or just say I don't know what I'm talking about, but I really could care less, because this is  NO JOKING MATTER.  These bottles are not toys and should be treated for what they really are, POTENTIAL BOMBS OR MISSILES, because if something does goes wrong, I don't care how tough we think we are, one things for sure, we won't be able to control what happens when the **** hits the fan.Last edited by Diverbill45; 01-11-2007 at 08:38 PM.
Reply:Dont worry little fuzz,Whoever thinks that your moustache is going to explode into an inferno if you use an O2 mask has no concept of what they are talking about. Of course I don't know... I have only hundreds of hours wearing one with 100% O2 running. I think my nose hairs got a little hot one time though. Ha!  Whatever. But on the other hand:Oxygen vigorously accelerates combustion and may form explosive compounds when exposed to combustible materials or oil, grease, and other hydrocarbon materials. Improperly cleaned equipment and piping could result in a combustion reaction causing damage to equipment and injury to personnel. It is for this reason that all personnel who use oxygen should take special precautions to inspect and ensure that piping and/or flow control components are properly cleaned and suitable for oxygen service.
Reply:Originally Posted by GWallaceAre you saying that a person with a moustache could experience his moustache bursting into flames if he uses an O2 mask?
Reply:OK, before we all start throwing the "You don't know what you're talking about" pitch around let's deal with issue at hand.This bottle is an unknown. It may be marked O2 but nobody really knows what's inside.It should be treated as any other pressure vessel with dangerous contents inside especially due to it's vague history.Diverbill brings up some good points but I also think that ANY person who handles a bottle such as this (and that goes for employees at the welding supply/refilling plant) should handle it with caution due to the fact that you never know where it's been.How does the employee know if the bottle has been in or near oil(s)? They need to take the proper measures to make sure that it's clean BEFORE they hook it up for refilling. IMO, if they don't check it beforehand then they are at fault for it blowing up. They should know better than to assume that it's clean.I don't see any problem with using some lubricant on the threads, cleaning the bottle after the cap is loosened, and then informing the welding supplier that the bottle has had oil on it.http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:ZT, ....... I agree with you 100%. I'm sure that the guys at the LWS/refilling plant do take this into consideration and clean these bottles before recharging them.I also agree with you completely that if the bottle is an unknown, treat it as if it was charged with a dangerous gas and treat it accordingly.My point is that, through inexperience, by putting any type of oil on the threads of the safety cap, in order to remove it, I'm sure that some over spray has made it's way to the main valve. Now, if the cap finally does come off and that bottle happens to be half full, ..................... what's stopping an inexperienced person from hooking up a regulator and using the remainder of the contents, with the price of refills being what they are today. That person doesn't have any idea what they've turned that bottle into.The reason I say, inexperience is the culprit here, is the simple fact that in the original post it was stated that a O2 bottle had been found and when trying to remove the safety cap, everything was tried including using a penetrating fluid. That statement right there brought out the RED flags, because you and I both know that oil and oxygen bottles don't go together, but to the inexperienced individual, .................... if the threads are rusted or stuck, just put some oil on them and sooner or later they'll come loose, ....... okay, that sounds logical, ........ without even realizing what has really taken place.Our experience and training in the welding industry has taught us not to make these kind of mistakes, but to others with less experience ................It's amazing, being a welding instructor, what some people, just starting out, don't realize about some of the dangers that we work with everyday.Just looking at the information provided from a safety point of view.Last edited by Diverbill45; 01-12-2007 at 03:01 AM.
Reply:Has anyone seen or heard from h20boy...hope all is good.By the way not arguing the point as i agee that no oil in contack with bottle period is the safest way,to assume the guys at the welding or gas supply know or even care is dangerous.Ive personaly seen guys a 3 of the nearest welding supply places rock walk  bottles right off the edge of their truck docks alowwing the bottles to slam end first into the concrete while doing nothing more then keeping a hand on the cap to keep it from falling over!!!! or just as bad  load 2-3 acetelyne boddles into suv's laying down along with some oxegen bottles with nothing more then a warning to the driver to keep his windows down and try not to smoke in the car just in case theres a leak!!!Theres a very frightening and real trend here...Complacency.People that work around the stuff on a daily basis are usualy the worst offenders.Ladies and Gents Complacency kills so if something is even remotly hazardous treat it like is death waiting and when the **** hits the fan you may just save your butt!
Reply:Originally Posted by ridgerunnerHas anyone seen or heard from h20boy
Reply:Thank you guys for your responses and concerns. Work has been very busy lately and I have not had time to work on this. I will try this weekend. As far as the concerns about oil usage, I used some stuff from the warehouse next door, it is a welding shop and one of the workers had a home-made brew of alcohol that smelled like citrus. When I spoke with them they just suggested this, but they never had this problem. I think I will try again with the taping and the 48" pipe wrench, and hold the against my tractors tire to eliminate the bottle from rolling. If that does not work, we will see which one of you has the winning idea. Thanks Again, I will let you know what works.
Reply:Originally Posted by spuddownLast I heard he was headin for Labarge Wyoming. If he went there from California he's freezing his butt off!
Reply:Glad to hear that your ok and not in orbit somewhere lolYa could make a spanner wrench quick also(if taping it and pipe wrench dont work this probably wouldnt either)Ive seen bottle spanners a few time at welding supplies and or jegs and summit carry emjegs part #555-80546 spanner/bottle nut wrench for 24 dollarsNevr needed one myself but considering it has a regulator nut wrench on one end one may soon find its way into my never used but neat tool draweror at least a homemade version of one.....im a cheap sob
Reply:I have a question about the oil on the regulator surfaces. Say your hands were greasy, and maybe you got some oil on there, maybe you were unsure, etc. What is the correct solvent to clean up the residual oil? Can you use a rag with laquer thinner/ acetone to degrease the valve/ port in question? It hasn't happened to me yet. But someday, I will change out a bottle with grimy hands. It would be good info for everyone who uses oxygen tanks for anything. Thanks, Paul.
Reply:Well I finally got the cap off today. I found the solution, almost 1 year of dust.  I tryed hammering the cap to loosen it....Nothing. I wedged it on the rear tractor tire, then deflated the tire some to hold the cylinder while taking a 48" pipe wrench with a 8' cheater bar, both loosening it and tightening it......Nothing. I poured coke in it, hit it every few days with a hammer for three weeks, and then tried above again.....Nothing. Then waited since February with it in the corner of the shop and then tried it today. I ended up taking a grinding wheel to it and slowly shaved off the about two inches of the side, about one inch to the threads, then I was able to remove it with a pipe wrench and a 5lb sledge hitting it. Let me tell you this, there was coke syrup still in it, and it was messy.This week I hope the welding shop will let me exchange it.
Reply:As an after thought about mustaches going up in flames. I once worked as a recompression chamber attendant and during training heard of well documented cases where people had suffered bad burns from having greasy hair catch fire in a 100% oxy environment. We had a policy of when a diver came in they had their hair washed and even the food that they ate had to be non greasy, these policies are not new and have been made through the school of hard knocks.When I was an apprentice one of our tradesmen was Dutch and during WW2 many Dutch starved, the underground used to smuggle food past the Germans and one method they used was to take the tops off the oxy bottles and put food in them and send it by rail to be refilled, at the other end the people in the know would recognise the marks and open those bottles, distribute the food. It came undone when sunflower seeds were sent and not all were got out. When the cylinder was filled there was sufficient sunflower oil present for an expolsion. End of that method.Clive
Reply:Originally Posted by h2oboyLet me tell you this, there was coke syrup still in it, and it was messy.This week I hope the welding shop will let me exchange it.