good guage for 100lb propane tank?

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I don't know if this is the proper place for this but since welders use gauges even though mainly for acetylene, I am hoping I can get some good advice on this as I am fed up of wasting money on guages for a 100lb propane tank which only work for a few days, my tank is on the outside of the Garage wall but inside of an enclosed shed which is attached to the garage wall, I am wondering if the cold weather is what is causing all of these guages from functioning properly? If so, I need a guage which can withstand the cold weather, any referrals please? Thanks.p.s. The most recent guage I got for this is a 100psi whic worked perfectly for a few days then started giving ridiculous readings.
Reply:What kind of gauge are you buying?  Is the glass water filled??  That could be part of the problem.  Is the gauge ment to be outside???Come try it out and stay a while.
Reply:p.s. The most recent guage I got for this is a 100psi whic worked perfectly for a few days then started giving ridiculous readings.
Reply:This is the guage I currently have on therehttp://www.ametekusg.com/products/pr...=1335&mode=skuIt was given to me by a plumber who uses it to take readings of tanks which needs to be changed, he says he leaves it on a tank for a few days but cannot say if it is meant to be left out in the cold permanently.
Reply:I received a propane gas gauge as a gift this Christmas but have not yet used it.  The instructions state that the gauge is "for all propane devices with type 1 connection".  I belive that it is primarily designed for a 20# or so propane tank running a gas grill but I am intending to use it on a 100# tank that I use to run a propane heater.  I have not tried it yet as the temps this week are very mild.  I am not sure how well it will work for this application as it has an automatic shutoff at flow rates over 120,000 BTU.  The Name of the unit is Flame King from:    YSN Cylinders, Inc.      3911 Long Beach Blvd.    Long Beach, CA  90807    1-877-425-6508The gauge does have a preassure indicator but it does not show the actual pressure rather it has a green OK area that is quite large then narrow yellow and red areas with an indicator needle.  So, although it does not specifically indicate pressure it will give you an idea of the relative amount of gas in the cylinder.Let me know if you need any adiitional info.
Reply:I'm not sure a pressure gauge is going to do a lot of good on a propane tank.  The bulk of a full tank is liquid with vapor produced as liquid "boils off" under use.  As long as there is liquid and the boil off rate equals the draw rate the pressure will remain relatively constant.  In fairly cold conditions the boil off may not be fast enough to hold tank pressure, in which case you would see reduced pressure.  Otherwise you won't see much change in tank pressure until the liquid is almost exhausted.  At high draw rates the evaporative cooling as the liquid changes to gas may drop temperatures enough to slow boiloff enough to drop pressure as well.
Reply:Originally Posted by Seven GablesThe Name of the unit is Flame King from:.
Reply:Take tank and slosh it around.  If it's heavy and you hear the liquid propane sloshing around, you're good.  If it's light and no sloshing, it's empty.   More seriously, weight is the way to go there.  Rig up a scale or counter-weight indicator.Just like Alan said, the tank is filled with -liquid- propane.  The typical draw-off is from the gaseous propane, and pretty much as long as there is some liquid in the tank then the pressure of the propane gas in the tank is going to be the same whether the tank is full or almost empty (the pressure will vary a little depending almost entirely on the temperature of the tank and it's contents).(faintly related content, I played with my weed-burner propane torch a little.  Man, that thing is outrageous!  It is supposed to run on a 20 lb tank or bigger.  I found a thread adapter to rig it to run on a 1 lb portable tank.  The torch sucked the little tank down so fast that I had the tank's temperature down to -22F, the flow rate and burn rate dropped off as the tank got colder and colder.  The burner would also suck down a 20 lb tank, err they are 16 lb tanks now with the OPD, grrrrr, fast enough to really-really impact the gas pressure and hence the flow and burn rate.)
Reply:I guess what I need is a commercial scale?
Reply:Also depending on how much gas you use you can freeze the tanks.  This is when you get the liquid -44 degrees F it's not that hard in the winter if the outside temperatures is already say -20.  For a liquid to convert to a gas it needs energy in this case heat, propane normally gets this from the ambient tem. (hopefully above -44 ! )  If you are freezing your tank you will get 0~psi even with a full tank till it warms back up.  To solve this increase the surface area of the tank, or hook mutiple tanks together with.Me!
Reply:A 100 pound Propane tank at 50PSI, will last a looooonnnnggggg time with a cutting torch.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:You don't need no stinkin gauge!  Just pour hot water down the side of the tank.  You will feel the tank get cold at the propane level.David  Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:If you do alot of cutting/heating in the cold, the ice on the side of the tank tells you what you have left.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:You just need a regulator made for propane tanks. they are high pressure regulators preset to allow about 12 lbs (approx)of pressure go to appliances.You can get them from the propane supplier.OR you can bur a LOW pressure regulater from a ceramic supply house that is two stage and is MANUALLY set. The pressure should be about 12lbs. OR what ever the appliance calls for as operating pressure, You do not want the entire 2000 whatever lbs. of pressure going to an appliance. That is another reason you want the regulator as close to the tank as possible. Like right on the tank. In case there is a leak it will be a 12lb pressure leak, NOT 2000lb pressure leak. Propane is heavier than air.
Reply:LP tanks wont hold much more than 250 psi......how old is the tank....if it's an older metal tank it could have contamination ...think rust....that is getting into the reg / gauge and causing the readings you are getting....why would it matter if the gauge is for a 20 lb or a 100 lb tank....they both have the same psi....have you tried to find a fish scale that is in the range of a 100 lb tank?.....the scale in this link http://www.propanepal.com/ won't do you much good as a empty 100 lb will weigh more than an full 20 lb tank.....70ish lbs....
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomIn case there is a leak it will be a 12lb pressure leak, NOT 2000lb pressure leak. Propane is heavier than air.
Reply:It shouldn't be too hard to rig up a hoist that uses pulleys, a small spring scale could be used if you have enough good pulleys, measure the tank full and measure it empty, then you can get a good idea of whats left.
Reply:Originally Posted by mikehendeThis is the guage I currently have on therehttp://www.ametekusg.com/products/pr...=1335&mode=skuIt was given to me by a plumber who uses it to take readings of tanks which needs to be changed, he says he leaves it on a tank for a few days but cannot say if it is meant to be left out in the cold permanently.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joe HAt 70 degrees farenheit priopane will be around 130psi in the tank.
Reply:I am thinking now that the most secure thing for me may be to have 2 tanks hooked up so when one tank is empty it will immediately switch to the other tank without any interruption in gas flow to the heater, I have to find the apparatus for this.
Reply:The simplest thing to do is have two regulators and have one on 12#'s and the other on 11#'s.  It will automatically switch over when the highest one goes less that the lower one.  JohnSMAW,GMAW,FCAW,GTAW,SAW,PAC/PAW/OFCand Shielding Gases.  There all here. :
Reply:Don't understand, can you please explain further John? Do you mean to have 2 regulators and two tanks? If so, what would the connection for the 2 regulators look like? Will it be a T connection?
Reply:Run your tanks in parallel.  One regulator.  Seen it done on many oilfield tank and treater facilities.You'll need two valves to isolate either tank when one runs out. Tank > valve > Tee > < valve < tank.  Tee into the regulator.
Reply:Before I look into the specifics of the physical connections, I want to understand how this works, are you saying that BOTH tanks will be open at the same time? If so, how will you know when one is empty please?
Reply:You can buy a setup for 2 100 lb tanks.  When one is empty, it switches before you run out.  When the last little bit of propane is drawn out, the pressure drops enough to make it switch.  Any propane supplier should have them.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.I will inquire tomorow if they have something like this.
Reply:Hey mikehende,Are you heating with propane? Search for  "propane temperature pressure chart". Such a chart will give you an idea of why propane pressure gauge readings are mostly irrelevant.If you're swapping tanks so often that running out is a nuisance; it may be time to consider a larger tank. Also, price savings could be significant, with volume purchase.Good Luck
Reply:Wow!Some of the responses have me totally confused.First off, propane in the tank under pressure is a liquid.  The pressure will change based on ambient temperature moreso than the amount of propane left in the tank.The only ways to acurately measure the propane remaining is either by weight or with a float meter (similar to the float gauge on your car gas tank).Bulk propane is sold by the gallon, not by the pound (here in VA my last fill was 3.02/gal).  The 100gal and larger tanks already include a gauge which indicates the percentage of liquid propane remaining.  The 100# and smaller tanks do not have such a gauge.  If you're heating with propane, call your supplier and have him bring you a 100gal (or larger) tank.  It will have a gauge.We in welding (as do scuba divers) tend to think of the gas we have remaining as a function of percent of full (ie.  2200 psi=full, 1100 psi=half-full.).  Liquids (including propane) are not measured that way.You could shake a full bottle of C25 or Argon all day and you will not get a liquid sloshing around as you will with propane.  Liquid propane weighs 31.1 lbs/cu. ft. or 4.1574 lbs/gal.  If you know your bottle's tare (empty) weight, it's pretty easy to determine how much propane remains by weighing the tank and subtracting off the tare weight.Hope this helps.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I was just told by my gas supplier that yes, they have the regulator for the 2 tank hookup but I would need a permit to hook up 2x 100 pound tanks in my area for residential purposes and also they don't know about 100 "gallons" propane so I am back to square one.
Reply:How about two 40 pounders... or an old motor fuel tank?  What options have they given you to this dilema.
Reply:I think that's a really great option, I will look into it, thanks! I still would like to know how I will know when one tank is empty?
Reply:Weigh it!  JohnSMAW,GMAW,FCAW,GTAW,SAW,PAC/PAW/OFCand Shielding Gases.  There all here. :
Reply:Mike,Call your propane supplier back and ask them what the smallest tank that they supply is that has a built in gauge.  A larger tank will not cost you any more than a 100# tank.  You're only paying for the propane you actually use.When I originally built my house, I used a propane furnace and a gas range.  My propane supplier supplied a propane tank which was about 30" in diameter and 8' long (horizontal tank) which held up to about 300 gals of propane.  I have since replaced the propane furnace with a heat pump so my propane consumption went down.  The propane supplier replaced the larger tank with what they call a 100 gal. tank (about 30" dia and 5' tall (vertical tank), since I now only use propane for the range and a gas log setup.  Both these tanks have/had built in gauges for determining the propane remaining.I say 100 gal tank because that's (96 gals) about the most they've ever put in the tank, even when it showed empty.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:This propane supplier apparently has never heard of any tank which sells by the "gallon". They have no tank which has a built-in guage, I will go to the only other supplier in my area which delivers to residential to see what options they have, get back to you guys.
Reply:Mike,Doesn't sound like your propane supplier is being very "helpful".  I'd definitely call another supplier.If you want to stay with the 100# bottles, I'd keep my eyes out on Craigslist or e-bay for a "loading dock" type beam scale.  Then I'd just set the tank on said scale.Weigh the tank when empty to determine tare weight.  Then using the previously mentioned weights for liquid propane, it would be easy to set up a little chart to determine what remains in the tank.  In fact the beam scale could be set to "drop down" when a set amount of propane remains.Hope that makes sense.Edit.  Check out e-bay item #360012409029.  Listing is for a "loading dock" beam scale.  You could just set your tank on the scale and be ready to go.Good luck.Last edited by SundownIII; 01-11-2008 at 01:19 PM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I called all the suppliers in my area, the one I am currently dealing with is THE only one who delivers to residential so I don't have any other to turn to, will visit them personally tomorow to see what can be done. I will also look into the scale idea
Reply:Hello Mikehende, I'm curious why the exact remaining content is so critical? If you are exchanging cylinders, you will likely want to run tanks empty anyway,  to use 100% of the content. Approximate remaining liquid can be determined by either weight check or the visible frost line test that has been described. You can guess the contents of a propane tank, -for example; the same as a gasoline can- by it's weight. Liquid propane weighs 4.25 lbs per gallon. With just a little experience, you can estimate remaining liquid with  a quick tip or lift of the tank; use a bathroom scale (or two) to be more precise.Propane dealers used to accurately estimate customer's heating fuel needs, with a formula called degree-days.Log your use for a bit, soon you will be able to guesstimate usage fairly accurately.Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 01-11-2008 at 02:27 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepHello Mikehende, I'm curious why the exact remaining content is so critical? If you are exchanging cylinders, you will likely want to run tanks empty anyway,  to use 100% of the content. Good Luck
Reply:Originally Posted by mikehendeSince I use propane for my Garage heater, if it runs out on a very cold night, I will have to exchange tanks and when I do I will have to bleed the line from the inside of the garage which means we would then have to properly air out the garage before turning on the heater again, see what I mean?
Reply:When you take the regulator out of a tank, air get's into the line so you have to bleeed the line to get the air out otherwise the heater will not work.
Reply:Originally Posted by mikehendeWhen you take the regulator out of a tank, air get's into the line so you have to bleeed the line to get the air out otherwise the heater will not work.
Reply:-If- Mike's gas line is on the long side AND the heater has a safety cut-off if ignition does not occur within a set time from the thermostat calling for heat, then you do have to bleed the gas line to get the gas from the tank to the heater so it all works.For short pipe runs or 'dumb' heaters, the gas will get to the burner before the safety switch times out or there is no safety switch.I've run into the situation on a long natural gas line to my pool heater on initial start-up.  Now that I know what the issue is, it's no big deal.  But man I was getting all sorts of annoyed when the heater initially wouldn't light up!
Reply:Find an old motor fuel tank.  They have guages in them for fuel level.  Better option would be ( I think already posted ) would be to ask the supplier what can be used, and what cannot.If they won't help... find one that will.
Reply:Mikehende, Okay, now we're getting up to speed. It'll be tough to use any gauge to estimate your heating fuel reserve to within 12 hours. The switching system, -with one tank always full- sounds like the best solution.The truck gauges aren't very accurate either. I have a Ford truck with a factory 429 propane fueled engine. It's impossible to use the gauge reading, to closely estimate fuel range or use, it varies widely. FWIW, most times the 429's fuel economy is under 6 mpg! Mostly because the driver is always on the fuel. I guess the roar of the gassed 429 probably just hypnotizes him, back to the Cobra-Jet days!Mike, Compare rates. I'll bet you're paying close to double, for fuel in those small tanks. How does the rest of the neighborhood heat?Last edited by denrep; 01-11-2008 at 11:13 PM.
Reply:Egads, unless you're using an unusual high flow that requires something special these changeover valves are an RV, ag, farm item. Most RV dealers gouge pretty good but at least they don't treat you like you are a criminal trying to usurp the legal system. Most Propane outlets do. You can't even buy jets anymore because of them. They protect their little world pretty tight. Set around a read safety bulletins all day. What you're looking for is something or anything like this: http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/..._43368___14273Most of the old ones didn't even have the goofy little gauge, they just ran one out and switched over. You had to manually shake the tank to see which one was empty. Or feel the line while some item was drawing fuel. The line in use is cooler.
Reply:Originally Posted by Alan NUnless I'm missing something important I think you're making this way more complicated than it has to be.  Just to satisfy my curiousity on this bleeding question I'm going to call a buddy of mine who is in the propane business and ask him about it.
Reply:Just came back from the Propane dealer, I cannot use 2 tanks for residential purposes in my area so it looks like I will have to settle for replacing the tank whenever it runs out, thanks for trying to help with this guys!
Reply:Just out of curiosity, is you heater mounted up high like the one in the pic?? That pretty much explains the 'bleeding' issue if it is.
Reply:Originally Posted by mikehendeJust came back from the Propane dealer, I cannot use 2 tanks for residential purposes in my area...
Reply:Wow, Propane police.