Trailer help

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I have a 18' open center trailer. I feel the axles are to far forward. What is the norm for axle set back? Also I want to deck it over with steel. Is 3/16" diamond plate heavy enough for this to over lay it? and what is the going price for it 4X8 sheets? I attached photos so you can see axle placement. Attached Images
Reply:I agree they look forward. I don't really know but centered fore and aft seems popular. What is the trailer used for?Is it just me or was there an add on behind the wheels?Last edited by skywest; 02-17-2008 at 05:58 PM.Lincoln PowerMig 180cVictor O/ABandaids and aspirinI don't know what I don't know!?
Reply:I wouldn't say there is a norm for axle placement I build a trailer and set the axles to accomodate the load that will be on it.  It looks to me the axles are too far forward.  I way say half way or slightly behind the halfway point.  3/16" is plenty strong for that.  With steel prices soaring I would have to check on price before I could say.  I just don't keep up with it anymore as it changes so quick these days.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Sixty-Forty is a starting point for axle placement. That's 60º in front of the axles, 40º behind the axles. The tongue is normally excluded from that measurement.Last edited by Sandy; 02-17-2008 at 06:15 PM.
Reply:just to give you an idea, 5'X12'X10ga is $155.05, quoted Feb 11. I'm in south Louisiana. Was told a 5 to 8 percent increase March 1st. This is the second increase this year.
Reply:That is not a add on. It was a dovetail that we straitend almost flat and welde a plate at the bend.I thought 60/40 split was the norm but wasn't sure. If I added a new spring hanger to the back and moved the axles bacl 1 hanger it would put them 2' behind the 60/40 split. I guess I sould try it. I use it for my classic car and want to decked to haul some tractors. When I tow with it now anything over 30 MPH it sways bad. They way its setup now it more like 40% forward and 60% back and sould be reversed.
Reply:Basically, you should have 15% of the total weight of the trailer on the tongue, wherever that puts the axels.  60/40 is a good "guess" and used on most flat bed type trailers since they tend to be used as "utility" trailers and are often loaded haphazzardly.  If you want to make it "right", load it like you normally do, take it to a scale and figure out the total weight of the trailer, then multiply that weight by 0.15 and that is what you should have on the tongue.  If you do that though, when you unload the car and load up the tractor, your distribution is going to be all off.  Best bet is to do the 60/40 split and go with it...better to have too much tongue weight than not enough as long as the tow vehicle can handle the tongue weight.  You can also adjust your load placement to acheive the "proper" distribution if you have the 60/40 setup, so a little behind 60/40 isn't going to cause too much problem.Contact me for any metal polishing needs you may have, my avatar is a pic of a standard, painted fire axe that I ground, sanded polished and buffed to a mirror finish.
Reply:The equalizer should be placed at 60% rearward from the front edge of the trailer deck. That usually falls in at about 14" past the center line. I own a custom trailer manufacturing  business and that info is straight from the axle manufacturers. DaveI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:After taking a second look at the pictures, that tongue looks awful far forward as well. The center of the coupler (ball socket) should be at or about 42" from the front edge of the trailer deck. DaveI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:Originally Posted by SandySixty-Forty is a starting point for axle placement. That's 60º in front of the axles, 40º behind the axles. The tongue is normally excluded from that measurement.
Reply:dabar39, I will have to measure it tommarow and see.daddy, no I don't have a equalizing hitch. I have used other trailer the same size and never need one with no truble.I guess I will have to plan on moving the axles bak. I have a set of spring hangers to weld on. I will try moving them back 1 hanger and see how it does.I had said to friends that the axles where to far forward and they told me there was never a problem before. It was build for a race car years ago. It was a much shorter and weighed alot less the whats on it now. Plus it only trailered loclly.
Reply:You say it was much shorter? Over loading behind the axles is causing it to fishtail. Moving the axle hangers means moving the fenders also. Fun and good practice at overhead welding and cutting, I like it!City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:The car the trailer was originally built for was much shorter the what I am putting on it now. With a full size car on it it will sway. I think there is not enough tongue weigh on it. As for the welding your right it will be good practice.
Reply:I agree I would move the axles back.  It also looks like the deck could be extended a little forward over the tongue too.   For the time being, to keep the sway down, load your car as far forward as possible, with the engine end at the front of the trailer and don't put any extra weight in the trunk.  Also, set your hitch height so the trailer is slightly nose-down when loaded, that will put a little more weight on the hitch and help with the sway problem.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:In your later posts you mention it was built for  a lightweight race car.Without doing the maths I am surprised you dont see flexion of the deck with a  full sized car on board. The whole thing doesnt look substantial enough. I would look at re-inforcement along the main for/aft rail down each side before I started loading the deck with checkerplate.
Reply:When you move the axles back, you are going to increase the "moment" between the the axles and the coupler. I would reinforce the trailer from the channel that is part of the tongue, back to the spring hangers. Possibly a truss of some kind.The way it is now, you have an abrupt change in section, nearest the highest moment (the place where the front tires sit) That is a big engineering no no.
Reply:There are some rules.Axles for trailers larger than Class1 need to be 10% aft of the CG. That would apply to this trailer. That is to ensure that if the trailer and safety chains broke, that the tounge of the trailer would hit the ground and drag.Yours looks like a class 3 trailer so it needs brakes too.You can get all this information at the DOT on the web. just google trailer rules etc.,. For your state.The plates would be better bolted on, and if you could afford 1/4 alluminum diamond plate it would keep the weight down.looks like a nice trailer.
Reply:Placement guidelines from a manuf.Axle Placement for a Tandem Axle TrailerMeasure the total length of the box(A) and divide that dimension by 2 to find the centerline of the trailer box. For each foot of total box length(A) move the centerline of the axles(B) toward the back of the trailer 1 inch from the centerline of the trailer box. That axle centerline is where you will attach the middle spring hanger. Be sure to position front and rear spring hangers according to manufacturers specifications. Be sure to pull diagonal measurements from the middle spring hangers to the coupler to be sure that your trailer will track straight. Example: For a 12' trailer box(A), the centerline of the trailer box is 6'(12' / 2 = 6'). Since the trailer box length is 12', the centerline of the axles will be 12" (or 1') towards the rear of the trailer from the centerline of the trailer box(1" per foot on 12' box length). So the centerline of the axles will be 7' from the front edge of the box. For a trailer with excessive tongue weight, you can cheat as much as 10-15% toward the centerline of the trailer box to compensate for the tongue weight. Be careful not to over compensate because without proper tongue weight, your trailer can become a mobile disaster for you and anyone else on the road. This method should only be used if you will be hauling evenly distributed loads. Axle Placement for a Single Axle Trailer Use the principles outlined for the axle placement on the tandem axle trailer to find the centerline of the axle on the single axle trailer. Instead of centering your middle spring hanger on the axle centerline, go ahead and use the axle centerline(B) for the centerline of the single axle. Attached Images
Reply:dabar39, as far as the tongue goes the frony of deck to center of ball is 64".donald Bransco, both axles have electric brakes.Eburgblue, thanks for the info and drawing. It helps alot.I really don't want to dump alot of money into it. I want it to trailer right and would love a solid deck to use it for more then just the car. If this is going to be a big problem setting up they way I want I will sell it and at some other point buy another trailer when I have money which is no time soon. I only paid $300.00 for it to move the car around while restoring it. But now would like it for other things.
Reply:woody367, You would not be dumping a lot of money into making this a usable trailer. It would all basically be in the labor involved to cut the tongue loose and move it back to the proper location and the hanger kit for a tandem axle trailer is only a few dollars. You could even try to grind the welds and reuse the hangers if possible. A cheaper alternative to diamond plate in the center would be to use 2x8 or 2x10 planks, about a hundred or so dollar investment. DaveI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:Originally Posted by eburgbluePlacement guidelines from a manuf.Axle Placement for a Tandem Axle TrailerMeasure the total length of the box(A) and divide that dimension by 2 to find the centerline of the trailer box. For each foot of total box length(A) move the centerline of the axles(B) toward the back of the trailer 1 inch from the centerline of the trailer box. That axle centerline is where you will attach the middle spring hanger. Be sure to position front and rear spring hangers according to manufacturers specifications. Be sure to pull diagonal measurements from the middle spring hangers to the coupler to be sure that your trailer will track straight. Example: For a 12' trailer box(A), the centerline of the trailer box is 6'(12' / 2 = 6'). Since the trailer box length is 12', the centerline of the axles will be 12" (or 1') towards the rear of the trailer from the centerline of the trailer box(1" per foot on 12' box length). So the centerline of the axles will be 7' from the front edge of the box. For a trailer with excessive tongue weight, you can cheat as much as 10-15% toward the centerline of the trailer box to compensate for the tongue weight. Be careful not to over compensate because without proper tongue weight, your trailer can become a mobile disaster for you and anyone else on the road. This method should only be used if you will be hauling evenly distributed loads. Axle Placement for a Single Axle Trailer Use the principles outlined for the axle placement on the tandem axle trailer to find the centerline of the axle on the single axle trailer. Instead of centering your middle spring hanger on the axle centerline, go ahead and use the axle centerline(B) for the centerline of the single axle.
Reply:Lol Lol.
Reply:dabar39 -  What is your concern with the longer tongue?
Reply:Originally Posted by daddydabar39 -  What is your concern with the longer tongue?
Reply:I wouldn't pull that thing unloaded. From the pics it appears humped (indicating it has been overloaded), and nothing about that tongue looks kosher. I've used the 60/40 rule for many years and always run the tongue to the axles. Never had any failures. That's the way I was taught to do it. I've done tons of repairs and mods on those that didn't follow that. Trailers are designed for the max load they will be hauling and just looking at the pics this one appears to be way under built for what you are wanting to use it for. Sorry to be crabby but I see destroyed trailers regularly and it's all from overloading and misuse. I think if it was my classic car and I really liked it I would take it to someone who knows what they are doing and see if they even think it could be reinforced enough to do the job. Could be cheaper just to replace it. Used factory built car haulers go for around $800.00 down here all the time.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.Grind off all the welds holding the tounge on and related stuff and transfer to the rear..And vice versa.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:It really depends on the load you are going to use it for.  The pictures are of an unload state. Actually the arc in the rails may be benificial (precurved)l. As a car trailer with mass forward it will look different. Put a load on it first and take a look. Only with a load on it can you tell if it will suit your purpose.
Reply:Jolly Roger, the hump you see is not a concern nor from overloading. It looks like that because it had a dovetail that I had straightend. When it was straightend we left just a little bend to it for loading. It work for what we needed. From where the dovetail started forward the deck is as flat as glass.
Reply:Zap.......I was thinking that too////   LOL. Move the ramp and light and it looks right but it still ain't.Last edited by eburgblue; 02-18-2008 at 09:48 PM.
Reply:Move the front (header) of the trailer two foot further out on the tongue, cut two foot off the tail, leave the axles and fenders.
Reply:Sandy, thats not a bad idea if it all lays out right.
Reply:Originally Posted by woody367dabar39, as far as the tongue goes the frony of deck to center of ball is 64".donald Bransco, both axles have electric brakes.Eburgblue, thanks for the info and drawing. It helps alot.I really don't want to dump alot of money into it. I want it to trailer right and would love a solid deck to use it for more then just the car. If this is going to be a big problem setting up they way I want I will sell it and at some other point buy another trailer when I have money which is no time soon. I only paid $300.00 for it to move the car around while restoring it. But now would like it for other things.
Reply:Just wondering, what do you think this trailer is even worth if I was to sell it?New tires, lighting, brake controls and coupler. wondering if I should sell it and buy a new one "less work and toubles" Just a thought not that I can afford to.
Reply:woody367, I don't know where you are located but down here in Florida as soon as you use a trailer once it seems the value drops to half of it's original value.I can sell a brand new car trailer for $1800 and two weeks later it's worth about a grand. Seeing as yours is a home built trailer the value would be even less, I have seen many a similar trailer going in the 5 hundred dollar range.Me personally, I would cut the welds on the tongue and move it back to the proper location and move or replace the spring hangers and be done with it in less than a weekends time. DaveI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:Woody, if that was mine I'd relocate the axles so they are 60/40 like everyone has recommended and try it out. If you have tractor supply near you they sell all the spring hangers and hardware cheaper than I can make 'em. I'd also be damn sure i took some real accurate measurements from the center of the ball to the spring hanger locations. Flip that sucker over and it will be much easier.
Reply:dabar39, believe it or not it was built by a company called "Custom trailers" and thats there business. I was not built in some backyard but by a trailer comp.daddy, I picked up the hangers at tractor supply last time I was there.  After rethinking I will do what you and everyone else has said and relocate the axles and maybe even move the tongue when it gets warmer out. I will be a little spring project.
Reply:Good luck Woody, let us know how it works out.
Reply:Thank you all for the help. Alot of good advice from good people. Like I said when it warms up I will jump on it. Bob