Spray or not to spray

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I bought a new DVI2 last December. When I was talking to the miller dealer they said that if I used .023 wire, my welder could spray. Not the best setup but achievable. The chart says that I should use 035 wire for larger material and that it was a gobular weld. The machine is rated for material up to 3/8 like the Miller-matic 212. The DVI2 according to miller is under rated. The big down fall of the DVI2 is in the duty cycle when dealing with larger material. If you want to do 3/8 most of the time then get the MM212. The question is, is it worth while to drop down to .023 wire and spray compared to using .035 wire. I am wondering because of the smaller wire size, my travel speed will be greatly reduced and due to this I can't help but wonder if the weld would be as stronger or not.Any ideas on thoughts on this.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:You will need 98% argon, 2% o2 to spray.  It probably will do it.I have a Wirematic 250 that will put out 250 amps.  It will spray weld, but the gun would melt down in no time.  I suggest you try it if you can get the shielding gas.  It probably won't have any practical application, but........I have a weldmanpower 225 engine drive.  With .030 wire, and the right gas cranked all the way up it would spray weld.   Then what?  I had ONE application for it.  I used it for that job many years ago and that was all. Be ready for a LOT of heat.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Look at your guidelines for the wire charts. The .023 wire isn't rated for much. If spraying you'd take 1 step forward and 2 back.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:I prefer spray...  because it gets great penetration and has less spatter.
Reply:Personally, I feel you'd be wasting your money trying to spray with an .023 wire. I just don't feel you'd achieve a useful enough output from the very small .023 wire to make it worth purchasing a bottle of shielding gas Sorry to state if you want to spray, you should have went with at least a MM 212, but preferably a MM 252 over the DVI-2.The DVI is going to be a short arc unit with an .035 wire. Personally, I feel  Miller tends to stretch the single pass ratings on their units. I run a MM 185 at work and own a MM 210. Based on the V/A graph I see in the DVI OM the top end on the DVI and the MM  185 are close to the same, which is roughly 21V @ 200 amps. Whereas at 200 amps, tap 7 on the MM210/212 outputs around 24.5 - 25+V. The extra top end power that the 210/212 offers results in a more agressive arc - higher energy.I honestly don't consider the 210/212 a 3/8" single pass unit; however, in a single pass, on a T or lap joint constructed from 3/8", I most definitely feel a person would have a much better chance at achieving fusion between the base metal and weld metal at the root of the weld with the 212 over the DVI.
Reply:what is the application of the product that you are making? are there any code requirements? one thing to think about is that the dep rate is for spray (smaller dia)is higher than glob(larger dia), so no big advantage there. the haz will be about the same. but the smaller dia spray will produce a much higher quality weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanPersonally, I feel you'd be wasting your money trying to spray with an .023 wire. I just don't feel you'd achieve a useful enough output from the very small .023 wire to make it worth purchasing a bottle of shielding gas Sorry to state if you want to spray, you should have went with at least a MM 212, but preferably a MM 252 over the DVI-2.The DVI is going to be a short arc unit with an .035 wire. Personally, I feel  Miller tends to stretch the single pass ratings on their units. I run a MM 185 at work and own a MM 210. Based on the V/A graph I see in the DVI OM the top end on the DVI and the MM  185 are close to the same, which is roughly 21V @ 200 amps. Whereas at 200 amps, tap 7 on the MM210/212 outputs around 24.5 - 25+V. The extra top end power that the 210/212 offers results in a more agressive arc - higher energy.I honestly don't consider the 210/212 a 3/8" single pass unit; however, in a single pass, on a T or lap joint constructed from 3/8", I most definitely feel a person would have a much better chance at achieving fusion between the base metal and weld metal at the root of the weld with the 212 over the DVI.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanPersonally, I feel  Miller tends to stretch the single pass ratings on their units. I honestly don't consider the 210/212 a 3/8" single pass unit; however, in a single pass, on a T or lap joint constructed from 3/8", I most definitely feel a person would have a much better chance at achieving fusion between the base metal and weld metal at the root of the weld with the 212 over the DVI.
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidI think people misinterpret the "ratings" by thinking it means that the machine can do a full penetration weld in one pass.  When they say a machine can weld 3/8", they don't mean anything about how many passes it takes.  They mean that the machine can put out enough heat to get good fusion with that thickness of material. Think of it like this..  go get a Hobart handler, the smallest one that can run bare wair (with gas).  Get a piece of 1" thick steel, grind a clean weld area on it, and run a bead.  The bead will be very cold, even at the machine's maximum output.  Fusion will be very poor.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanEngloid take a look, you'll see Miller is stating 3/8"  in single pass with the Passport, MM DVI-2, and the MM 212.http://millerwelds.com/products/mig/