Rod questions

admin

I hadn't welded with a stick welder for a while and I went to pick up a couple of pounds of rod for my old Airco 180 buzz box.  I have typically been using 6011 for penetration, 6013 for general purpose and a 60 or 7024 for fillets.  the 7024 has probably as much iron in the coating as it does the rod.  They had a 7014 rod which I took and used.Can anyone tell me more about this rod?  Also, I wonder why I am seeing 70 or 60 used almost interchangeably now?  I know that the first two digits refer to the metal strength, the third the position, and the fourth rod characteristics.Finally, to what extent does moisture in the rod affect your welds.  Does it increase slag problems?   Is it worth buying a dryer? Thanks,Jim
Reply:I'll share my scant knowledge with you. Of course 70 class rods have more tensile strength than 60 class rods. Also the 7014 thru 7024 rods are more ductile than 6011. They will stretch farther before they break. Moisture increases hydrogen embrittlement which does away with the advantages of 7018. If 7024 is damp it will have a rough arc and leave splatter. If it is dry it has a very smooth arc and almost no splatter. 7018 exhibits the same characteristics as 7024 but to a lesser degree. 6011 needs a very sligh amount of moisture to run smooth.
Reply:It depends on what you are doing if you really need the dryer. They all come out of sealed containers when new, so they are good at that time. For code work yes they must be properly stored in an oven (code requirement). The thing about the oven is that while they can be obtained relatively cheaply they do keep that power meter turning. You will definitely notice it on your power bill. If it's just around the house and for non-critical welding you would probably be fine, though there are those who think a raw beginner should be storing them in an oven. Lincoln has good information on rod storage.Your location also makes a big difference. If you live in a low humidity area like oldtimer they keep for a long time, but in a high humidity area like I live in you need to get through them pretty quick.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Moisture increases hydrogen embrittlement which does away with the advantages of 7018.
Reply:6010, I was just passing along what the book says. I agree with you that on mild steel it doesn't seem to make a difference. That is based on welding a lot of mild steel with a lot of 7018. I imagine we will both catch a lot of flack over this opinion.
Reply:7014 is for all positions, 7024 is for flat position.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Using 7018 that has been exposed to moisture always presents a risk of hydrogen-enduced cracking(aka cold-cracking).  The risk is low when welding on mild steel, and increases with carbon content and with increase in other alloying additives.Second, in addition to risk of cold cracking, damp 7018 has increased tendency to form porosity when you strike the arc.  You are correct in that the heat of welding will drive off moisture from the rod coating.  But the risk of porosity in the weld at the start of the bead is always a problem.  Frequently, this porosity at the start of the bead is sub-surface porosity, and not always detectable by vision inspection.  However, sub-surface porosity can lead to crack initiation and eventual failure of the weldment.So, if the weld is in a critical application, never use rod that hasn't been properly stored.  If you're just practicing, or willing to assume the risk of the weld failing, go ahead and use damp 7018 rod.
Reply:Desertrider33, you are absolutely right about 7014 and 7024 but you can put some beautiful caps on pipe with 7024.
Reply:I keep 7014 and 6013 with on my truck.  7018 now stays in the oven.  I take a 10lb metal can when I need it.I used 7018 with impropper storage right up until last year when I bought an oven from Tozzi.  If it was critical, I just bought new rod and kept the rest for non critical.  I preferred MaCay or hobart rod. Now that I have used dry lincoln rod, I love it.The last 50 lbs of Lincoln 7018 and 7024 came in a cardboard box with no plastic liner.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:The last several boxes of Lincoln 7024 I've gotten came in cardboard boxes as well and I don't recall a plastic liner. I've never gotten their 7018 in anything but cans. Fifty pounders of course. I plan to get a small oven soon because of the high humidity we normally have here. I've seen tons of porosity on the starts with atom ac straight out of the oven. According to my local airgas dealer ESAB has recently or will soon be changing their manufacturing process.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Atomarcs are crap plain and simple.  Lincoln now manufacures Murex which I like, and are easily available to me, and the 7018's come in a cardboard box, but there it is suppossedly some type of sealing process to it.  I read it on one of the boxes.  I'll have to read the box tomorrow to remember what it said.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Originally Posted by 6010Please correct me if I am wrong, but what I understand from what I have read about the 7018 rod is that it is not the moisture or hydrogen per se that causes the cracking. It is the hydrogen in the rod coating being used on "crack sensitive metal" that causes the cracking. Crack sensitive metal being metal high in carbon, high in sulfur, or low alloy. In other words, on low carbon steel, it shouldn't be any more likely to crack than say a 6011. And it has some advantages in high vibration applications because it is more ductile than the 6011 or 6010, Sometimes I think people get the impression that if 7018 is damp it is going to crack not matter what metal it is used on , and from what I understand from what I have read, this is not the case. I do know that if it has moisture in it it is a little hard to weld with. But I have found that if you stick it to the metal and let it heat up, when you strike an arc with it, it usually welds as easily as a 6011.I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong because I use the 7018 on low carbon steel if I think vibration will be a problem, even though it has not been properly stored.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldtimerDesertrider33, you are absolutely right about 7014 and 7024 but you can put some beautiful caps on pipe with 7024.
Reply:on the package of the last batch of Lincoln 7018 I bought was a notice that the rod should be pre-dried before use.  I was surprised because the package was sealed in heat-shrink plastic wrap.
Reply:DesertRider, I thought every one was going to let that about capping pipe with 7024 lay. Actually it is easy and fast. First, you don't go around the pipe with it. To me the fastest and easiest way to fab pipe is roll it out. I used a set of rollers for short stuff and pipe jacks for longer runs. Plan your welds so you can roll every thing you can. To make the 7024 cap start your bead in the 12 o'clock position and come down to the 1 o'clock position and start rolling and maintain your puddle at 1 o'clock. When you finish if the flux has popped off just melt into your start and if the flux is in the way stop about 3/4" of and inch away and tap the flux off and finish up. If you try to keep the puddle at 12 o'clock on 3 & 4" pipe the puddle is too fluid and will try to run and humps up. If your heat is set right arc force keep the flux from running into the puddle and the bead is solid when it reaches the 12 o'clock position. When welding larger pipe move up closer to 12 o'clock. I found I could cap 3" with one 1/8" rod and 4" with one 5/32" rod. Larger pipe I just used 5/32". I first tried this just to see if it could be done and it worked so well I used it a lot. Found out later on that the navy also used this procedure.Sorry about the long post to explain. Gotta run, got a date at the hospital.
Reply:from what i remember in class, the first 2 numbers are the tensile strength (as previously noted), the 3rd is position (also, as previously noted), and the 4th is not ROD characteristics, but FLUX composition. i can't remember anything about what number corresponds to what flux compound, but some are hotter than others, thus being more suitable for certain welding jobs. personally, i suck at stick, so i never really worried about it too much. i want to get better at it, but i can't justify learning it and buying a machine ad consumables right now... maybe this summer.anyway, the only rods that were kept in the oven at school were 7018. we only used 6010, 6011, and 7018, but i was always understanding that ALL rods should be kept dry and clean, except for gouging.Later,Andy
Reply:Originally Posted by OldtimerDesertRider, I thought every one was going to let that about capping pipe with 7024 lay. Actually it is easy and fast. Sorry about the long post to explain. Gotta run, got a date at the hospital.
Reply:Oldtimer, thanks for the explanation.  I don't mind the length at all, I like hearing the whole explanation most of the time.   Hope you get a good looking nurse!MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Yes, she was cute and friendly. Short hospital stay though,about 2 hrs. Got to do it again next week and the week after. Basically I've bent over a cutting torch and a stinger too many years and the four lower vertebra in my back are severely degraded ( their words). I am getting a series of epidural cortesone injections. If this works I won't need surgery. Something for those thinking about becoming welders to think about.
Reply:Yea, she was cute and friendly. Of course my wife was there to drive me home. Get to go back and see her twice more. The trouble with that is the doctor who stuck that big needle in my spine will be there too.
Reply:Sorry for the double post. Thought I got the first one cancelled.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldtimerSorry for the double post. Thought I got the first one cancelled.
Reply:He told me the mind thing is CRS and I got it from my momma. She claims it is a joint inheritance. He is right about the pipe caps. They look like they were done with a subarc. I love Jet and use it just about everywhere I can. I haven't done pipe caps with it in so long I don't know if I even still can. LMAO@tortis yeah it took a while, but it has been a long day. Glad to hear everything is going ok. I think that is the same shot the VA was gonna put in mine. I wasn't looking forward to it.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:JollyRoger, we are getting quite a ways off the subject but just so you will know the shot isn't very bad. Very little pain. I've had tetanus shots that were a lot worse. In fact the dermatologist and his nitrogen bottle this morning was a lot more unpleasant.
Reply:Getting sticked with needles.... stick welding.... I guess that's not too far off the topic.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op