LP engine drives???

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Any of you guys running or have run an engine drive that's fueled b LP.  I've been told they are alot more efficient than gas pwoered engine, and cheaper to run.  With the high fuel cost was considering one, but thought I would ask if anyone had experience with one on here.  ~JacksonI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Hey Hammack. I used to use a couple miller bobcat lp units. We used the tanks that are approx twice the size of a grill tank. Same tanks as our forklift used! Anyway they seem to run forever on a tank full and they didn't seem held back compared to gas driven.We used them mainly in food processing plants due to fumes. When they're running good you just about can't smell them.
Reply:Thank's for the info.  I already have an LP forklift, and a larger tank setup to fill smaller ones.  I'm just having to cut back because of this fuel situation.  My service truck only cranks up if it's headed to a job considering Diesel is $3.70 a gallon here.  I as thinking the LP unit may be the way to go to save a few extra penny's.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Just an FYI the eng drives run on vapor and should not be run from the liquid line your fork lift is run on.....it will cause vapor lock and or freeze the reg. as well as other problems.....
Reply:Originally Posted by 84zmikeJust an FYI the eng drives run on vapor and should not be run from the liquid line your fork lift is run on.....it will cause vapor lock and or freeze the reg. as well as other problems.....
Reply:Propane has less btu per gallon than gas and gas has less btus per gallon thab diesel. If a propane engine has the same burn rate as a gas engine it will be making less power than the gas engine. If the engines are making the same power it will be burning more gallons of fuel. Propane was a real money saver when you could get it for 30 cents a gallonand gas was a buck. You're really not going to save anything any more.
Reply:I worked on propane engines most of my life.  A LOT of forklifts, some air cooled engines and a few trucks.  Propane sucks!  You will loose 20% of your power.  That could equate to 20% welding power in the end.  If its a small engine, vapor will work, but if its bigger, it will freeze up.  If you use liquid, the engine will have to warm up before you put a load to it or it will freeze up when its cold.When you change the oil, it comes out looking just like you poured it in.There is oil in propane and it can cause carb problems.  I would only use it if it was NEEDED for the CO emissions.In the end  you won't save money.  Propane around here is $4.00 a gallon , so is diesel.I keep my diesel truck at the shop all the time and drive my car or motorcycle back and forth to work.Availability could be a problem too.Propane burns slower than gasoline, so the timing has to be changed (advanced).  The plugs never foul unless the machine is burning oil.Air cooled engines that work hard have the vaporizer on the side of the engine behind the head where the air comes out.  Water cooled engines are by far the better way to go.  They now have computer control for the mixture with an o2 sensor and it does work, but nuttin great.15 years forklift mechanic.1 year for clark, 6 for hyster, 3 for yale and 5 as an independent.If I were to go LP, I would only go with a factory version.DavidLast edited by David R; 03-04-2008 at 05:47 AM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Used to pull a camp trailer with a GMC pickup with a 400 cid engine. 22' trailer and I could drag the heck out of it. Put a propane conversion unit on it. Fuel mileage dropped from 8 to 6 mpg and I could barely get over a hill. Burned a valve. Melted the internals on a qudrajet carburetor. No fouled plugs and the oil stayed clean. Had to warm it up on cold mornings or the regulator would freeze up and it would quit running. Had to pay fuel tax since it operated on the highway. Never saved a penny on fuel costs plus the inconvencience of filling up the tank. When the the repair costs were figured in it was a big loss. You couldn't give me anything that uses propane for fuel.
Reply:Forgot to mention how sikening the smell of the exhaust from a propan fueled engine is.
Reply:Speaking of BTU's.  Natural gas has less than LPG.  I have an air-cooled  Generac standby generator which puts out 7 Kilowatts on LPG, but only 6 Kilowatts on NG.
Reply:Propane is a great engine fuel, but for the most benefit,  engines  need to be configured for it, especially compression ratio and spark advance. Propane has an octane rating of 100 plus!  The way to make propane pay is with high compression. High compression raises power, -with less fuel consumption-  or makes more power out of a smaller engine. I saw a propane fueled,  turbo charged, 250 six in a Chevy camper  van. The owner told me the propane conversions were being built in California. He had a lot of miles on it, and spoke highly of the conversion's  power and reliability. Although, he was looking to weld a freak turbo exhaust manifold, when I met him!My buddy built a Pontiac Tempest slant 4; the one cast out of half of a  389 V-8. He raised compression way up with high performance 389 head and pistons. Fueled it with propane, it really ran!I have an  F800 that weighs  in at about 30,000 lbs. It's a factory 429 LPG engine. Runs real strong, gets about 5-6 mpg. It has never missed a beat or spark knocked;  But... If it had a gas dripping, rich running, four barrel carb;  the truck would probably get 4mpg and  be on  it's third engine,  or maybe it would have burned down by now! For stationary or stand-by engines, propane far excels gasoline;  especially today's low-octane, detonating, gumming,  corrosive blends. Also fuel  storage and transfer  risks are reduced,  propane is  much safer to store and handle than gasoline.Besides the engine life extending benefits others have mentioned, propane won't evaporate, make dangerous fumes, go stale, gum up, rot fuel system parts, collect moisture....  Close the valve and walk away, leave it for years;  the propane engine will be ready when needed.I cast my vote for propane!Last edited by denrep; 03-04-2008 at 12:28 PM.
Reply:In jeep, gasoline go strong... LP depended jeep will feel the drag when goin up hill and need more Toq... 3rd world LP is subsidised ... I would get a diesel and covert it to bio-diesel... My Island Borneo is a huge 1 million hectars of palm plantation... I will place my bet with bio-diesel to power my engine and welding workshops... hell... all I think...Unit in my fab shop dept:my good hand and team that trust me...A lone welder make art... a village full of welder make Miracles...
Reply:DenRep, I agree propane is a good fuel if the engine is configuered for it when built. If you have to go in and raise the compression ratio and add hard seats then not so great. When I was growing up on a farm propane was very popular for tractor fuel and every manfacturer made both gasoline and propane versions of the same tractor. The high compression propane model would pull about as good as the gasoline ones but would never out power one. The higher compression simply helped recover some of the power you give away to the lower BTU value of propane. The fact that propane cost 3 cents a gallon compared to 21 cents a gallon for regular gasoline was a big factor. Speaking of safety I never knew of anyone having a fire with a gasoline tractor but our neighbor burned a propane rig to the ground when filling it.
Reply:The LP versions of the Bobcats and Trailblazers are made for propane from the factory and make a little more horsepower than the gasoline engine models and supposedly get good fuel 'mileage' (for lack of a better name).  If I were to buy a new engine drive it would be either LP or diesel.  The diesel Bobcats and Trailblazers cost alot more than the LP and gas ones, so I'd pick LP.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Denrep,  I took care of a fleet of those stinkin F800 LPG trucks (95 right?).  They belonged to a propane comany.   The company went all diesel.  Do I need to say any more?  Engine life is increased, no doubt.  The stuff burns cleaner but.....David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Hey Hammack, just in case your interested Reddarc has some used lpg Lincoln Ranger 8's for sale for $1400 each. This is the link to the web page.http://reddarc.com/used_equipment.aspxI've bought two machines from them and so far no complaints. For 10% extra they will give you a 1 year warranty that even covers the engine. On the engine drive they let my partner watch while they changed the oil and filter, fuel filter, air filter and load tested it.  Just letting you know as it appears to be a fairly inexpensive way of trying it out. I don't know what propane is at around here but was 4 bucks a gallon two years ago. I'm fixing to put a new top on my Geo Tracker, insure it and register it to make sales calls and for giving estimates. At 30 mpg it it will pay for it within two months.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Thanks for some good information.   I'm definitely NOT going to retrofit a machine.  If I go with propane unit it would be purchased and designed from the factory as a propane drive.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Jolly, I know what ya mean.  I just built a skid for a small lightweight 180 amp portable machine I have, and to hold a small oxygen and Acetylene bottle that will fit in a small truck.  I just found a ford ranger with a 4 banger in it, and I'm gonna use it for service calls unless I need my big truck.  I have so much service work that's just an hour here or there It's bound to pay off.  It's not unusual for me to spend 4 hours a day in the truck and 4 working. Ofcourse I charge for it, but more money I save is more in my pocket.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:LP Gas 91,000 BTU per gallon.Gasoline 125,000 BTU per gallonDiesel 139,000 BTU per gallonDo the math using your local prices. Keep in mind that a Compression Ignition engine is inherently more efficient than a spark Ignited one.Keep in mind that you are only getting 1/3 of the energy you buy anyway, 2/3 is getting blown out the stack and off of the cooling system as waste heat. ( I just threw that in there to make everybody cringe a little more when they visit the pump LOL)A diesel is going to run just as efficiently today, tomorrow, next week and next year if you keep the filters clean. Although you have to keep in mind the higher initial cost, A couple of thousand dollars buys enough gasoline to fuel a SI engine for a long time.Gasoline is good but you have to keep up the maintenance in order to keep it running efficiently. Anything is cheaper to run than a gas engine with a miss. gasoline engines also don't take well to periods of extended storage. If you are in a business like construction, and your equipment sits for 3 months out of the year, be prepared to spend some money every spring getting your equipment running right. And don't forget every spring is usually when you have cash flow problems in construction.LP gas is more trouble free than gasoline. The equipment stores well. Keep in mind that most small engine problems are fuel system related. LP fuel systems are more trouble free than gasoline ones.No one fuel is right for everyone. Diesel is great but the initial purchase is high. And if you have a choice between a spark ignited engine that is paid for, and a diesel with a morgage on it, the SI engine is probably going to be cheaper in the end, unless that machine is burning rods 8 hours a day non stop.LP has one special advantage that is often overlooked. Employees steal gasoline and diesel. What are they going to do with a 33 pound propane tank that gives off liquid (unless you prop it up at a funny angle. Most employees don't have the intelligence to use the propane that they steal, so they just don't bother stealing it.LP is also clean in more ways than one. You put a tank on your machine and hook up the hose and your refueling is done. How many times have you seen some buthead spill gas or diesel all over when refueling a machine? And that same buthead is probably using a dirty gas can and a funnel with crud on the inside.Last edited by joethemechanic; 03-05-2008 at 07:04 AM.Joewww.CummingsHauling.com