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I have no welding experience; but I was wondering if the welds on my "fire escape" are defective? Attached Images
Reply:I'm no expert, but that 1st one looks like that got stuff from the scrap bin and they ended up using the bin!!!! DanMy instructor said someone will catch on fire during class...He wasn't joking!!
Reply:Originally Posted by xccelagatorI'm no expert, but that 1st one looks like that got stuff from the scrap bin and they ended up using the bin!!!! Dan
Reply:As a certified welding inspector I would say this fire escape needs serious attention and rebuilding and or repair IMMEDIATELY. It fails a visual inspection just from these photos.You cannot inspect welding after it is finished. it has to be inspected as it is being built.This fire escape is rusted and the welding is only on one side of some weldments. The basic material is suspect because of rust also. I do not think it would hold several adults at all.I would call the fire marshal and notify OSHA too. You can tell the owner of the building FIRST, to be polite and if they don't immediately take care of it call the Fire chief.A visual inspection IS THE FIRST LEVEL and as far as I am concerned it FAILS the visual inspection.Also that rail attached to the wall is attached to cement block and I would want to know if the block is filled with concrete. Also the attachments of the rail to the wall. It looks very thin.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 03-30-2008 at 05:10 PM.
Reply:Thank you.For the past 5 years; he has been repairing this, in response to my fire department and HPD complaints. Recently, the fire department referred me to buildings department, and I made a complaint to them a few days agoI may have to call the Fire Chief; If that does not work I'm sure the Community Board will help me.
Reply:When all else fails go to the media. Remember this is a pandoras box, once you open it you may not be able to control it and may end up with out a place to live if you pi$$ off the wrong person. Most TV stations have a consumer help/ inversitagtive team that is always on the lookout for stories. Hard working guy getting the shaft from the slum lord, public saftey issues, big government ignoring saftey concerns gets good media hype.Not saying this is the best route. Personally I hate this kind of BS Tv news, as it is seldom acurate. It does however tend to light a fire under people who would rather the tv station find somewhere else to do their missreporting. All I needed to do with the kids that broke into my house was suggest that the asst. DA that IF he did not want to prosecute the little thugs, I was more than interested in mentioning the firearms charges that they didn't want to persue to the media. The DA was more than happy to fight for getting me full restitution after that point, rather than have the spotlight turned on his office. " Hard working guy has to take 5 days off of work with no pay for seperate trials and still can't get back the stolen money from yuppie suburban kids who commited mulpiple felonys (and confessed), who get off with no jail time." Yeah the media would love this.
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomAs a certified welding inspector I would say this fire escape needs serious attention and rebuilding and or repair IMMEDIATELY. It fails a visual inspection just from these photos.You cannot inspect welding after it is finished. it has to be inspected as it is being built.This fire escape is rusted and the welding is only on one side of some weldments. The basic material is suspect because of rust also. I do not think it would hold several adults at all.I would call the fire marshal and notify OSHA too. You can tell the owner of the building FIRST, to be polite and if they don't immediately take care of it call the Fire chief.A visual inspection IS THE FIRST LEVEL and as far as I am concerned it FAILS the visual inspection.Also that rail attached to the wall is attached to cement block and I would want to know if the block is filled with concrete. Also the attachments of the rail to the wall. It looks very thin.
Reply:Doesn't matter if the weld is real solid or not, the rail is only held up with a piece if flimsy unistrut and some mickey mouse standoff anyway.
Reply:I work in law enforcement and I can see a heading in the news paper saying, man falls to his death trying to escape a simple grease fire in his apartment......details at 11Guy_48Welding is an art......Millermatic 252Lincoln SP175PlusLincoln 225 AC/DC
Reply:That just looks like the norm down here. I actually quit doing this type of stuff since property owners can't comprehend that since the IBC was adopted on 01-01-2007 that unlike before they now have to follow it. The welding actually looks better than the majority of the work done down here. I would be more concerned that the fire escape actually meets code. I don't really think OSHA will do you a lot of good, but the fire marshal should be able to as this falls directly under fire code.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:I'm no welding inspector, but as a firefighter trained in fire code inspections...that fails miserably! To me, the welds look terrible, the material doesn't look strong enough, and the mounting points on the building are certainly substandard. I would like to see the standoffs welded (properly) to a large steel plate and the plate bolted on all four corners to the wall with the proper concrete anchors. Again, the welds look horrible, but a structure is only as strong as the weakest part, and I would say the weakest point of that one is the mounting points.Contact me for any metal polishing needs you may have, my avatar is a pic of a standard, painted fire axe that I ground, sanded polished and buffed to a mirror finish.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jolly RogerThat just looks like the norm down here. I actually quit doing this type of stuff since property owners can't comprehend that since the IBC was adopted on 01-01-2007 that unlike before they now have to follow it. The welding actually looks better than the majority of the work done down here. I would be more concerned that the fire escape actually meets code. I don't really think OSHA will do you a lot of good, but the fire marshal should be able to as this falls directly under fire code.
Reply:One more thing to consider is if there is a fire that fire escape may have a lot of people on it all at once!Me!
Reply:I'm also a CWI, and I wouldn't be happy with the welds. However, to simply say they're unaccaptable is a bir more complex than that. As CWI, one of the first things you'd need to know is what code/spec are they supposed to meet. Some are a lot more lenient than others.That all said, I'd reject tht crap if a local shop made it on my lawnmower. Have you asked the fire marshall what welding code things have to meet? If it's AWS D1.1, I think it's going to fail miserably. It also would require certification of welders.If thta mess is less than 5 years old, I'd wonder how long they plan to wait till they REPLACE it.
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidHowever, to simply say they're unaccaptable is a bir more complex than that. As CWI, one of the first things you'd need to know is what code/spec are they supposed to meet. Some are a lot more lenient than others.
Reply:I'm not sure; but I have been doing research into this, and I may have to go to my Community Board. Believe it or not -- this fire escape passed around eight of the last ten inspections from HPD, the Fire department, and the Buildings Department. I called the Buildings department again; because, I read the OSHA laws about ladders, and the last repair around a week ago, they put grease on the actual ladder, and guide rails, etc.It did not pass the one -- when the Community Board -- required an Inspection from HPD, but the landlord simply said he fixed it; so that drops the HPD violation. But, I can keep complaining; and go over with the Board how their certification of repairs is bogus.Here is part of the actual code for Fire escapes: HIGH EFFICIENCY SPECIFICATIONDIVISION 5SECTION 5A MISCELLANEOUS AND ORNAMENTAL METALS5A.11 FIRE ESCAPESA. Repair defective parts of fire escapes with materials equivalent to original part.B. Anchorage: fire escapes and platforms shall be securely anchored with through wall steel straps and steel plates and in accordance with N.Y.C. Code and M.D.L. 53.C. The Contractor shall provide and install a gooseneck ladder to roof if required by Code.D. Drop ladder: 1. The Contractor shall provide new drop ladders as necessary. 2. Unless otherwise detailed, drop ladders shall be 20" wide with flat stringers 1 1/2" x 3/8" with 5/8" diameter rungs spaced not more than 12" on centers headed into stringers with ends upset. Drop ladders shall be supported in accordance with N.Y.C. Code and M.D.L. 53. 3. Guides shall consist of 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 1/4" angles constructed in accordance with N.Y.C. Building Code and M.D.L. 53.E. No field welding is permitted in the repair of fire escapes. All repairs must be bolted or shop welded.-------------------------------------------------------5A.05 INSTALLATION AND WORKMANSHIPA. CONNECTIONS 1. Shop connections shall be riveted, welded, or bolted, except where welded connections are called for specifically. 2. Field connections shall be bolted with machine bolts, except where field welding is called for specifically. 3. Fabrication - Conform to the best accepted standards of practice in modern shops and as per AISC and NYC Building Codes.B. ERECTION 1. All work shall be plumb, square and true to the lines and levels as required by drawings. 2. Install and maintain, temporary bracing and scaffolding as may be required. Remove when no longer needed.---------------------------------------------------------------------------- PAINTING 1. All steel work, shall be shop painted and touched up in the field. a. Clean all surfaces to be painted of all rust, scale, dirt and all other foreign substances. b. Shop Coat - One coat zinc chromate, work well into joints and open spaces. c. Field Paint - One coat of Red Oxide after erection. No painting shall be done when metal is wet.
Reply:CALL THE MAYOR they gota have a help line what ever the number is --or call a local TV station for a human intrest story good luck fighting city hall-----local TV --------local news works wonders
Reply:Thanks.I called one of my politicians, and they sent me to someone in my Community Board; and so far I have had very good results, with their help, with other building problems. I think my landlord is worried -- because a bar is in the same building, and the Community Board can revoke their alcohol license, according to my politician.
Reply:Originally Posted by txfireguy2003I'm no welding inspector, but as a firefighter trained in fire code inspections...that fails miserably! To me, the welds look terrible, the material doesn't look strong enough, and the mounting points on the building are certainly substandard. I would like to see the standoffs welded (properly) to a large steel plate and the plate bolted on all four corners to the wall with the proper concrete anchors. Again, the welds look horrible, but a structure is only as strong as the weakest part, and I would say the weakest point of that one is the mounting points.
Reply:Looks to me like it was originally inserted when they laid up the wall. Not an uncommon occurance when your building was most likely built. There are some issues with the steel or iron rusting and forcing the bricks apart but this is negligable in an attachment this size. Without seeing the rest of the building I would guess either late 1885-1930's. I'm looking at the rivited (iron?) floor and guessing since I can't see enough of the other connections to tell. At about this time frame bolts into masonry were very uncommon. Usually lags into wood inserted into holes or wood blocks laid up in the wall.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWLooks to me like it was originally inserted when they laid up the wall. Not an uncommon occurance when your building was most likely built. There are some issues with the steel or iron rusting and forcing the bricks apart but this is negligable in an attachment this size. Without seeing the rest of the building I would guess either late 1885-1930's. I'm looking at the rivited (iron?) floor and guessing since I can't see enough of the other connections to tell. At about this time frame bolts into masonry were very uncommon. Usually lags into wood inserted into holes or wood blocks laid up in the wall.
Reply:Originally Posted by ApoctaoI have no welding experience; but I was wondering if the welds on my "fire escape" are defective?
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWLooks to me like it was originally inserted when they laid up the wall. Not an uncommon occurance when your building was most likely built. There are some issues with the steel or iron rusting and forcing the bricks apart but this is negligable in an attachment this size. Without seeing the rest of the building I would guess either late 1885-1930's. I'm looking at the rivited (iron?) floor and guessing since I can't see enough of the other connections to tell. At about this time frame bolts into masonry were very uncommon. Usually lags into wood inserted into holes or wood blocks laid up in the wall.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepSome of the pictured welds may lack appearance, but I really don't see a welded connection that looks like it would "pull" before the base metal, or some other connection.My opinion - A lot of this looks ugly. But structurally I really believe that it's sound.I don't see any serious corrosion in the pictures.Most of the pictures seem to show braces used to add lateral rigidity.I agree, some of the mods have a less than workmanlike appearance.I'd like to see an overall view, and a look at how the ladder's vertical loads are transferred.The ladder's rungs and uprights show excellent condition and workmanship.The second from last picture, a closeup of the steel/concrete connection shows no heavy rust. That connection is probably anchored deep in the pour. What could that connection be replaced with? An anchor bolt with limited grip in old concrete, using a hole that's going to drink water?Apoctao - Would you be willing to wager the price of a new fire escape; that this one would hold 4x it's maximum potential load? From what I've seen so far, I think it would. If it would give you some peace of mind, maybe create your own alternate escape system, or plan.While we're on the subject... One person at a time, on any ladder, ever.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepSome of the pictured welds may lack appearance, but I really don't see a welded connection that looks like it would "pull" before the base metal, or some other connection.My opinion - A lot of this looks ugly. But structurally I really believe that it's sound.I don't see any serious corrosion in the pictures.Most of the pictures seem to show braces used to add lateral rigidity.I agree, some of the mods have a less than workmanlike appearance.I'd like to see an overall view, and a look at how the ladder's vertical loads are transferred. The ladder's rungs and uprights show excellent condition and workmanship.The second from last picture, a closeup of the steel/concrete connection shows no heavy rust. That connection is probably anchored deep in the pour. What could that connection be replaced with? An anchor bolt with limited grip in old concrete, using a hole that's going to drink water?Apoctao - Would you be willing to wager the price of a new fire escape; that this one would hold 4x it's maximum potential load? From what I've seen so far, I think it would. If it would give you some peace of mind, maybe create your own alternate escape system, or plan.While we're on the subject... One person at a time, on any ladder, ever.Originally Posted by ApoctaoThank you.For the past 5 years; he has been repairing this, in response to my fire department and HPD complaints. Recently, the fire department referred me to buildings department, and I made a complaint to them a few days agoI may have to call the Fire Chief; If that does not work I'm sure the Community Board will help me.
Reply:This is how its going to play out if the Owner is required to do significant or total replacement work. Yours and everyone elses rent will go up 25% and the owner will tell all the complainers that you can thank the guy who lives in Apt #xxx for the increase! Ive seen it done before (not with fire escapes) but other big issues. Good luck I hope it all works out for the better. Uncrichie.
Reply:Originally Posted by arcflashlynnAgreed. One thing I was taught was that you can't fail a weld simply for being ugly. lol Granted, those are a bit over ugly.
Reply:Originally Posted by Apoctao...And, when the Community board a few Weeks ago; requested an Inspection from HPD, they issued a violation because the drop ladder would not slide down the guide rails... so the landlord...had the janitor/super fix it....
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepI'm not going to second guess HPD, (whoever that is) they inspected the installation, and seem satisfied with the repair.
Reply:Glad i am not your landlord.Tim Beeker.
Reply:I'm glad I live in the woods. |
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发表于 2021-9-1 00:52:30