Pipe Welding Question

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I am currently a 1st year apprentice with the UA of  pipefitters and plumbers.I'm in my first semester of school but am currently out of work because of wrist surgery.  The welding instructor is allowing me to come in as many days as I want while I'm out for practice.One of the first things I've noticed is what cuts it in the field doesn't cut it in class.When making my tacks on my coupon(6 inch pipe, tight 1/8 gap, 1/8 landing) as I start on the bottom and move up momentarily to get my puddle before digging in the gap, I'm depositing too much material for his liking. I've tried speeding up but it seems when I do I don't get my puddle going to my liking and the rest of the tack looks like crap.My instructor showed me a couple of times but I can't seem to get it down.He did comment often however, "10 different welders, 10 different ways"I know my description may have been a little vague but if any of ya'll have any tips I would appreciate it.
Reply:I am also a UA member working on my pipe certs. I dont see the problem with depositing too much material on the bottom as you will grind high spots off your root anyhow. At our hall we are doing 3/32 gap and landing. Reason is you can make a smaller root bead and also a faster one. 70 amp root. This may be why you are depositing too much, big gap and heat may be opening your keyhole further than you want. The keyhole should never be larger then the width of your rod with flux. And keep the end in the puddle to the point that you think it will stick. Small puddle is a cold puddle and you then have more control of the heat.Hope this was helpful.Bill
Reply:I'd run with a setup more like WHughes but up 10 amps. To get rid of the lump on the start, start just passed 6 oclock and by the time you get to 6 your in then grind the start for the other side.   If you go in hot you get the edge I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:I have a thought about your problem...you said that you are depositing too much metal on your tacks...Are they penetrated tacks?  If so...grind them down...you should be doing that anyway!!  If they are NOT penetrated them I suggest that you reduce your land to a 1/16th with a 3/32" gap and turn up your heat about 5-10 amps   As far as what you learn in school is not always applied in the field...sometimes your right, sometimes your wrong...In the field, yes short cuts are taken but the basics are still applied...remember one thing about welding in the field...Once the welder stricks a arc on a joint...he has excepted it as a proper fit and can weld it...if the joint fails, its the welders fault...there is no blaming the fitter for a bad fit...that has to be done during the fit up!!  Follow the [/FONTthings that you learn in school...apply them to the work that you do...and THEN learn the short cuts of the trade!!]Jonesy
Reply:Originally Posted by Jonesy70I have a thought about your problem...you said that you are depositing too much metal on your tacks...Are they penetrated tacks?  If so...grind them down...you should be doing that anyway!!  If they are NOT penetrated them I suggest that you reduce your land to a 1/16th with a 3/32" gap and turn up your heat about 5-10 amps   As far as what you learn in school is not always applied in the field...sometimes your right, sometimes your wrong...In the field, yes short cuts are taken but the basics are still applied...remember one thing about welding in the field...Once the welder stricks a arc on a joint...he has excepted it as a proper fit and can weld it...if the joint fails, its the welders fault...there is no blaming the fitter for a bad fit...that has to be done during the fit up!!  Follow the [/FONTthings that you learn in school...apply them to the work that you do...and THEN learn the short cuts of the trade!!]
Reply:Originally Posted by ByrdDogI realize what my instructor is trying to do, make me the best welder possible.. That is why he doesn't want it there to begin with. I appreciate what he is trying to do to me when (teach me to be a professional instead of someone settle for the bare minimum) he rides my butt in class.
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidI'm sure you don't want to be average.
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidHe's also trying to teach you what it takes to pass a test.  The average weld in the field is never inspected by anybody,  100% of welds in the test shop are.  You have to get the job before you can get out into the field, so passing the test is the only way....and remember that the average welder struggles with a welding test.  (sad, but true).I'm sure you don't want to be average.
Reply:Originally Posted by ByrdDogI just got a little frusturated after trying for hours on end and still not getting it.
Reply:I had a welding test and the part I failed was, I didn't give enough cool down time. I was so into getting it done right and fast that I applied too much heat and undercut everything on the test piece. haha I learned doing it right and fast is not necessarily the way to go. The second piece passed no problem.
Reply:Hey I have a question for you pipe guys..  Doesn't your job become very repetitive?  I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, don't you just run the same bead all day long around a pipe?  The money is awesome but don't you go crazy doing that for 8 hours?***Stick welding like, woah.***
Reply:Hey Byrdog hope this helps in one area of you questions. I had an instructor once tell the class that the quality of the weld is the overall quality of every aspect of all the actions taken. He explained that if you can lay down a quality root pass you will reduce or eliminate the majority of  the imperfections during a destructive test and will be something that you take into the field weld. Grinding a tack is almost unavoidable "almost", grinding out the root pass can be skillfully eliminated and will reduce field fabrication time and "rework". My experience is that there is a great feeling of accomplishment when you flip up the hood and admire you skill.
Reply:Originally Posted by DubJHey I have a question for you pipe guys..  Doesn't your job become very repetitive?  I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, don't you just run the same bead all day long around a pipe?  The money is awesome but don't you go crazy doing that for 8 hours?
Reply:Welding in a circle can get boring.  Out-of-position welds, various sizes in pipe and most important, having the "what could I do next joint to make that look better," attitude keeps me going.
Reply:are you burning through?  b/c if you are you gotta grind a root face
Reply:Originally Posted by DubJHey I have a question for you pipe guys..  Doesn't your job become very repetitive?  I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, don't you just run the same bead all day long around a pipe?  The money is awesome but don't you go crazy doing that for 8 hours?
Reply:hey byrd dog,don't get discourged. i got my 21 cert last year. it took me over a year of burning rod to get it. half the game is getting a position that works for you. one day it will "click". the suggestion about starting past 6 oclock is right on. start dragging your 6010 at about 4 oclock, pass the 6 oclock tack about an inch.  the rod will be hot and ready to go. don't hesitate. then burn through your tack and keep going. do the same thing on the hot,fill and caps. heat and travel speed are what works for you. experiment with both.  jack up heat and move faster,and turn it down and go slower. find what works. and don't get hung up on numbers. everymaching is different.  i was always told that by the fourth tack you should have you heat dialed in.  good luck.
Reply:Thanks for the advice guys.Back to school tomorrow to do it again.Last edited by ByrdDog; 06-19-2008 at 09:14 PM.