what is the best welder for a beginner wanting to weld aluminum

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hi, this is my first post and i am really new to welding. i have been doing a lot of reasearch an have come to a dead end. i want to get a simple and CHEAP arc welder (less than $200). i was considering the gasless wire fed but was disapointed to learn they won't work with aluminum and i dont want to hassle with the cost and argon for mig welding. i have several projects that i would like to do in the future involving aluminum, so that is important to me. now i am debating between a dc harbor freight welder and a clarke 131e ac welder. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91110[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Clarke-131E-Arc-Welder-WE6519/dp/B000MRRZNG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1216331149&sr=  8-1[/ame]I hear dc is alot smother and makes nicer welds but the machines i find (aside from that one) are so expensive. also i dont know if the clarke ac will weld aluminum (or if the electrodes exist.so in a nut shell what is the best arc welder for welding aluminum and what type of electrodes should i buy. if you can also recomend another welder that would be great! (i only have acess to 115v)thanks so much for your help
Reply:Originally Posted by marzban123hi, this is my first post and i am really new to welding. i have been doing a lot of reasearch an have come to a dead end. i want to get a simple and CHEAP arc welder (less than $200). i was considering the gasless wire fed but was disapointed to learn they won't work with aluminum and i dont want to hassle with the cost and argon for mig welding. i have several projects that i would like to do in the future involving aluminum, so that is important to me. now i am debating between a dc harbor freight welder and a clarke 131e ac welder. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91110http://www.amazon.com/Clarke-131E-Ar...6331149&sr=8-1I hear dc is alot smother and makes nicer welds but the machines i find (aside from that one) are so expensive. also i dont know if the clarke ac will weld aluminum (or if the electrodes exist.so in a nut shell what is the best arc welder for welding aluminum and what type of electrodes should i buy. if you can also recomend another welder that would be great! (i only have acess to 115v)thanks so much for your help
Reply:The only thing you will probably find to join AL in that price range is a drill and some bolts. AL welding has it's own unique requirements. It's GMAW (MIG) or GTAW (tig). Both need argon and/or helium. GMAW will be the cheapest of the two options, but not close to your price range. You might want to look at your local community college, find a class you can work on your projects or small fab shop that you can work a deal to use there equipment.
Reply:Originally Posted by qaqcThe only thing you will probably find to join AL in that price range is a drill and some bolts. AL welding has it's own unique requirements. It's GMAW (MIG) or GTAW (tig). Both need argon and/or helium. GMAW will be the cheapest of the two options, but not close to your price range. You might want to look at your local community college, find a class you can work on your projects or small fab shop that you can work a deal to use there equipment.
Reply:With no experience you'd best get some instruction if you plan on welding aluminum no matter the process as all you are going to do is make a mess. No arc welder made in the price range you are hoping for has the oomph needed for welding aluminum.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jolly RogerWith no experience you'd best get some instruction if you plan on welding aluminum no matter the process as all you are going to do is make a mess. No arc welder made in the price range you are hoping for has the oomph needed for welding aluminum.
Reply:Its more than effort.  You will need an AC welder capable of 150 and up amps.  Then a HF box, a torch, regulator, and a bottle of gas.  These last three things are out of your pirce range.  This is with out a remote amp control.Save up and get something you can use.  I have once tigged off a miller thunderbolt.  It was terrible.  I used a weldmanpower G7 on AC to weld aluminum, but still no foot control.I have an arcmaster 185 and its just big enough to weld 1/4" aluminum. Cost just over 2,000 with everything but the bottle of argon.  It also stick welds on AC and DC up to 160 amps.On  your budget, maybe you could forget the aluminum and just weld carbon steel.  A small mig or small inverter stick welder.David.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Hello and welcome to the forum.As said most new welders capable to do what you want are out of your price range by quite a bit. A few thoughts in general on alum for your info.Alum is a great heat sink and requires more umph usually than steel the same thickness. Not all alum is weldable. If it doesn't have welds originally, you may not be able to weld it with any process. Depends on the alloy.You haven't said what projects you would like to do. Can you use some other material and get the same result? Some other process perhaps. Brazing can attach a variety of metals. Silver solder is what many use to join hard to join materials. A small gas torch is required. You don't need the skilles required to weld to braze. A small imported gas torch set and a small set of bottles will max your budget and a bit but will work for many things.As suggested look into a class. It's an inexpensive way to get the experience, training and get to play with toys out of your price range. Using these machines will give you an understanding of why you need a good machine. My instructor was happy to help with projects brought into class. He'd help you do it yourself or use it as a teaching tool to show the class.
Reply:If you have something to weld and $200.00 is your budget...You should invest it in a relationship with a good welding shop.If you keep having more to weld, they might be willing to work some kind of"internship" out with you.  You can weld with poor equipment, but, why would you?If you learn how to do it right, you appreciate the better equipment more!The best things in life all come on a stick!
Reply:thanks every body for your responses. http://power-tools.hardwarestore.com...de-200042.aspxhttp://store.cyberweld.com/alel40.htmli have found other sites that also sell these aluminum electrodes. electrodes like these wont work in a standard arc welder like what i am looking for? i was under the impression they would work.
Reply:Stick welding alum is used on thick materials. You could build a truck rack out of alum C channel using them but one from alum tube would be a nightmare. You would blow thru the tube. Those rods require a DC machine to run. They say the thinest material to be 1/8" or more.Again what do you plan to weld in alum? If you plan on building heavy alum structures then maybe that would work. I doubt thats the sort of project you have in mind however.
Reply:ok, so i can weld aluminum with the welder from harbor freight. would you also recomend that welder for more general purpose welding or would you recomend the ac clarke?im not going to be welding with aluminum that much but i am in an eneneering club at my highschool and we build lots of stuff. recently we built an electric boat that goes pretty fast and we want to fit it with hydofoils and weight is a problem. its also nice for me to be weld aluminum for light weight projects like a motor mount for the electric bike i am building.
Reply:If you want an honest answer, neither. Part is the quality of the units, the biggest part is they are not suitable for what you want to do.I honestly don't think a stick welder is the machine for what it sounds like you want to build and work with. If you leave the price tag out of the equation I would say either a 220v mig with a spool gun or an AC/DC Tig setup. I hve a feeling both these options would run you about $1500 minimum unless you can find a good used machine.Hydrofoils will require thin alum. That has tig written all over it in my book. You might be able to do it with mig if the skin is thick enough. My thoughts on that would be rivets. They build planes with rivets and they need to be light and aerodynamic which is the same principles of a boat. The rivet could be coated if need be. Thought #2 would be fiberglass/carbon fiber, Strong yet light and you wouldn't need to weld much if at all.As far as the bike, I bet you could braze/silver solder the mount. I doubt stick would be practical. Machine it from one piece, assemble it with bolts and so on.Maybe you can find a local welding shop to "sponsor" your club. Often businesses do these sorts of things for the publicity.A stick welders strengths are welding heavy materials. If you were in the 4H and wanted to work on tractors and farm implements then a stick machine would be ideal. Have you seen many stick machines being used on show like American chopper? There's a reason why, it's not suited for what they do.Sorry to burst your bubble, I know its tough to have a budget that is totally unreasonable with regards to what you really need. I honestly believe that you will regret spending the money on a stick machine. Save your money and get a machine that will do what you want later.
Reply:now that you mention it, we might be able to use some of our grant money towards a welder like that. thanks for your help and advice.
Reply:Another option that you may want to look into is attending a local AWS meeting. There is no need to be a member to attend. This will allow you to make some good contacts. Knowing that you are working with a school there will be more of a chance to get someone to let you practice at there shop. The knowledge base there will be a great asset.