Ughh! V groove trouble..

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I've been working on vertical up (7018) V Grooves for weeks. I have many people telling me different things. It's confusing, cause none of the ways work..I have no luck. Can someone set me straight here or atleast give me some tips?? Please  -mandy*insert welding gibberish here*                    Mandy
Reply:I could write a detailed description and you still probably wouldn't get much help from it. Go to your library and see what books they have. Lincoln's "Handbook of Welding Procedure" is as good as you will find. If they don't have it you can order it online and it is cheap, especially for the amount of information it contains on every aspect of arc welding. It has detailed diagrams of the movement of your rod for any position which are much easier to understand than any written description will be. Any question you have on arc welding will be covered in this one book. I've relied on it  since 1967.Another is A. C. Davies "Science And Practice Of Welding" which is probably out of print now but everything in it still revelent today. I actually had my local library order a copy of it before I got the "Handbook". It is very detailed on every welding process.
Reply:Need more input. What rod, machine settings, thickness, etc. And specifically what you are having trouble with...million different things covered in a post may not be the one you need to fix the trouble.....so, what specifically is the trouble?QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:Well DDA beat me to it while I was typing.  We need more info to really offer any help.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Mandy, take a look here. This thread got the OP to complete his testing and get cert'd.http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/...highlight=7018Maybe what you want is there?QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:Take a look at this section from one of the Lincoln AC/DC welder manuals under 'Vertical Up Welding' to see if it helps any.  Not sure how applicable the technique described applies to 7018 however.  The complete manual can be found here http://content.lincolnelectric.com//...r/im/IM237.pdf if you care to read it all and there are similar ones on the Miller website as well that should have some useful information but don't forget to visit the library as Oldtimer recommended. Attached ImagesPages from IM237.pdf (71.0 KB, 85 views)MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Since you're in a class, have someone show you with the welder OFF. No arc, no helmet. Maybe you'll see the distinct motion that's so hard to describe online. Pay close attention to angle of 'up' and how far back and forth the hand moves to point to the toes. Also, some guys count, 1,2,3,4.....1,2,3,4When I'm having trouble, watching it done makes a world of difference; but it sounds like you've already tried that. Has your instructor watched you? My instructors have never seen me weld.  Can you see the puddle? In all manual welding, puddle control 'is the point'. Your entire universe is 1" in diameter. Maybe try a pair of someone's reading glasses. This may not be an issue, since yer younger 'n me. Are you using both hands, one on the rod, to help control it?What shade are you using in your helmet?I think stick is the hardest, the dang puddle is 12" from my hand.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Originally Posted by DDA52Mandy, take a look here. This thread got the OP to complete his testing and get cert'd.http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/...highlight=7018Maybe what you want is there?
Reply:Once you wade through the sea of parameters and preparation, the edge of the bead on each side becomes the most important aspect. We call it the toe.  Watch left, watch right, watch left, watch right...but for pete's sake, keep absolutely spot free lenses in your hood. That is my point of view.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by OldtimerI could write a detailed description and you still probably wouldn't get much help from it. Go to your library and see what books they have. Lincoln's "Handbook of Welding Procedure" is as good as you will find. If they don't have it you can order it online and it is cheap, especially for the amount of information it contains on every aspect of arc welding. It has detailed diagrams of the movement of your rod for any position which are much easier to understand than any written description will be. Any question you have on arc welding will be covered in this one book. I've relied on it  since 1967.Another is A. C. Davies "Science And Practice Of Welding" which is probably out of print now but everything in it still revelent today. I actually had my local library order a copy of it before I got the "Handbook". It is very detailed on every welding process.
Reply:This is my first bead I layed down after knocking the slag off, I know how to move slow.I guess my real question would be..To Grind or Not To Grind? lol*insert welding gibberish here*                    Mandy
Reply:are you welding open butt?6010 root, hot7018 fill, and cap?
Reply:well in my opinion I don't think that plate is really thick enough to run that many passes.  It look like you may be moving across the puddle to slow or not pausing long enough on the toes.  Speed up your side to side motion and pause on the sides.  I don't really get all the grinding, but I don't think they meant heavy grinding.  Maybe grind down any high spots or undercutting.  What amperage are you running, and what size 7018?  You could be running a tad hot.Last edited by Hammack_Welding; 08-26-2008 at 09:28 PM.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Yeah, just how thick is that plate? 3/8 would be a 2-3 pass weld on a V as long as the groove is normal sized. I don't get all the grinding either. Cleaning with a stringer bead brush, yes, but not a hard wheel unless it was to knock down the high spots like Hammack said. Lots of tests will not let you grind..just chip and clean.If that is 1/4, I'd be tempted to use a 3/32 7018 @ 95a or so. From what I think I am seeing, you are staying too long in the middle. It has been said to just work the toes/edges with the rod...the middle will take care of itself. That means side to side zig-zag and no stopping in the middle.QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:Here's my adventure I've done today:I learned how to go sloowwww. This is one 7018 stick that covered like two inches..After its been filled and grinded down..Cut into thirds for the bend test..My Bend test results...I ended up passing it, despite the crack, instructor said the test allows a certain size crack to pass or something. I decided to just make one big thick, very thick bead down the middle and just grind both font and back til it was flat and smooth. I used 5 or 6, 7018 sticks for the whole v groove thats 6 inches long. So I know how to control my speed and puddle now. I'm happy I passed. I need to work on it though. So, today I also started on my horizontal v groove. Its kinda fun lol..*insert welding gibberish here*                    Mandy
Reply:If I were doing that plate, I would make a small 5/16" or 3/8" bead as a root pass. And then more small beads to fill and cap the groove. I am sure someone will counter this bit of information, but I would probably want to run a torch over that groove first to dry and warm it up. One bead for that groove is too much for me.But hey, you passed! Good job! City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Thanks!!. It only took 1 hour max to finish the whole thing. I'm sure if I had hit ALL the slag off, it would of had no cracks what so ever.*insert welding gibberish here*                    Mandy
Reply:The biggest thing to work on is the BEAD PROFILE.  If the profile of each pass is such that it allows you to trap slag, it's not good.  If the profile is such that none gets trapped, you also can eleminate all interpass grinding.
Reply:So you mean like, if the bead is really good and thick, and the passes are good, there should be little to no slag? Thats what I've thought, its worked so far..*insert welding gibberish here*                    Mandy
Reply:Originally Posted by ls1taSo you mean like, if the bead is really good and thick, and the passes are good, there should be little to no slag? Thats what I've thought, its worked so far..
Reply:Thats what I mean, I barely just barely moved the rod when I was welding them. I had one 'valley' , but I knocked the crap out of it, and went over that space again, then I ggggrinded it down.*insert welding gibberish here*                    Mandy
Reply:OkLooks like you are preparing to be a pipe welder. You are beveling the edge at 37 1/2 degrees and you should have about 3/32 landing. Meaning a bevel with a flat face (if that makes sense). You are running vertical and your root will be 1/8th 6010 at about 70 amps, then when the root is in you must grind down the weld so that it is all uniform (some will argue this). But its like golf, you need to set up the next shot and right now your next shot is a hot/fill pass, also with 6010 but this time at 90 amps roughly. This hot pass will be a different motion then your root. On 8 inch plate like you have, you should be able to do that root with 2 pieces of rod and the hot pass with 2 pieces. This information should help you "find" your travel speed.Now you switch to 7018 for a fill pass, I like 3/32 rod but my instructor likes me using 1/8 since you can run it hotter and faster, and for some contractors that is important.With the 3/32 you will run 85 amps, and if you use 1/8 you can run 110 to 115. Establish a puddle, travel 1/8 up and to the bevel edge of the opposite side, when your trailing red tail catches up move in the same manner to the opposite side and so on.Your last pic shows a big 7018 bead over the gap, this is not how its done. Also, going this slow will warp and put too much heat to your work. I didn't see a landing on the bevel.Are you developing a 'keyhole' during your root? Judging from the piece you bent, that plate isn't ready.Just trying to help. I have recently done these plate and bend tests.Bill
Reply:I get what your saying, Im not worried about being absolutely perfect about it right now, since that was my first actual bend test.*insert welding gibberish here*                    Mandy
Reply:Originally Posted by WHughesOkLooks like you are preparing to be a pipe welder.
Reply:When I was learning 7018 uphill like that, the biggest improvement I had was stepping down to a 3/32 rod from 1/8.  Being in class is the absolute best time to practice.  A flat fee covers all the rod you can burn and all the plate you can weld.  Sometimes I found it hard to remember this on those days when I was getting frustrated with doing the same thing over and over with no sense of making any progress.Originally Posted by ls1taExplain.