If I got certified in gas welding....

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Do you think if I were to practice and get certified in gas welding I could sell enough work to afford a tig welder or maybe to get a job somewhere down the road if I needed to to support my family? Start a career in it?  I have acess to a torch setup and could easily buy my own if my dad decided he really needed it.Here is my story I graduated from a fantastic undergraduate university with honors in molecular biology, went to grad school for molecular genetics and got a masters degree and then decided I didn't love research enough to devote my life to it for the little pay and long hours.  I then worked as an estimator for a site development company (construction) which was a lot of fun for 3 years until the housing crunch/development slowed and the company started getting into a cash situation... they never mentioned laying me off but I figured I would help them to cut overhead anyhow as our competition was taking jobs at so far below cost it didn't matter how good of an estimator I was we weren't going to make a profit and we all recognized that.  So my dad brought me in to the family business which is cool, but I have always loved machines of all types and really enjoy welding.  We built a set of custom headers for an engine swap we were doing when I was younger and that was a honest true thrill everytime I started a puddle. I could go to medical school but I am so sick of the academic world I doubt I could stand it.I mention my work experience/academic history only to show that I am versatile and willing to take the non conventional path and start from the ground up.  I know "certification" goes along with the same mindset of collecting degrees but thats what I know at this point I can collect degrees like a pro but I can't DO anything useful.  Well I can run an immunosorbent assay or analze protein structure but what use is that in the real world?  Estimating has helped me in projects around the house and in everything I do and I am glad I took a chance to learn those skills.Any advice from those of you in the industry?Last edited by hpfiend; 09-05-2008 at 10:38 AM.
Reply:If you want to make money  be a pipe welder, otherwise, try and become an inspector or create a test facility.    As far as gas welding?  Not sure I would try and get any certs for that.  Just get good at it.  Save the certs for what you know you will be welding on or welding with. weld it like you own it
Reply:Not Sure What To Say!! I guess my 1st question would be why did you choose molecular biology in the first place? Was your heart really in your choice or did you choose that maybe because of some sort of family illiness you hoped to find a cure for?I myself have 26 1/2 years of military and a JD in law. I had a natural nack for law since I was a kid but I also loved autobody work and welding something my father owned a shop in. I found myself doing both during my life. Now I own a farm and co-own a cnc shop!! Quite a change huh??My personal advice is that if you love both you'll find a way.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:I don't of any place where you can find that kind of certification. If you were to be certified in gas welding I dont know were you would sell that skill except a period correct restoration project. 25-30 you could get a job at a muffler shop if you could bend pipe on the first try. Now days gas welding is more or less a novelty due to it's cost and slow speed.
Reply:Last year I wanted to take a TIG class (I have a good TIG). When I talked to the instructor, I told him that I'd been O/A since 1977 and TIG welding since 1993. ONLY AS A HOBBY GUY. He said that he starts ALL of his students in O/A, just to learn puddle control. Since I knew his reputation as a weldor and I'm doing this for fun, I said OK; I'm in. I learned a lot and I had fun. Nobody cares about O/A anymore, but it teaches you puddle control slow enough that ya kin figgur out whut's goin' on.Since ALL manual welding depends on puddle control, makes sense to me.I started TIG class in August, same instructor. And puddle control is still my 1" diameter universe.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:I used an o/a setup for portable welding for a couple of years when I started.  I did a few handrail installations, a tractor repair(with a huge propane blower for preheat) and a trailer modification -- all still functioning as designed.   While I got paid for my jobs, I am sure I got more experience than money.I wouldn't suggest o/a as a means of making a living. Too much time, and "time actually is money" when you're in business for yourself.  By the way. I was a chemist for 10 yrs and the a teacher for 4 yrs.  Also, got a masters.  Started my welding business about 8 yrs ago.   Income has increased each year and it has supported my family for 6yrs.  Though, I definitely must work wise and get stuff completed, don't bother with learning to weld o/a for the purpose of earning a living.  I like the process and use it on occasion, but it is too slow and expensive to attempt to make money.
Reply:Tresi and Craig about said it all. A/O welding in industry is basically a dead horse.
Reply:Thanks for all of the replies people- the reason for the molecular biology major was I was always really good at science (I invented those skate shoes you see all these people wearing back in the sixth grade for a science fair- should have patented it) but I thought I wanted to be a doc ($$$$ motivations) until I got to about my Junior year, had survived the weed-out and was actually able to sit back and see what I was getting into and who I was getting into it with.  My roomate at that same time decided to punch his glass aquarium in a not so sober moment and when we went to the ER, I about passed out as they worked on his hand... so it didn't look like a fit for me at all anymore oh well-  they pay you to go to grad school and thats about all I could come up with my major at the time...I have thought about teaching science as well as I do really like teaching kids as I volunteered teaching science experiments in college.... my wife is a JD and while that is definitely a more practical route compared to medical school I dont think its a good fit for me either.oh well the journey continues... I will just puddle for pleasure with my o/a.tapwelder what sort of welding did you start out with for your business and how did you get people to trust in your abilities?? I can put things together with a torch but I have never had them tensile tested or anything like that to trust myself to collect money for it or test someone's life on my welding ability.  Where about in Nashville are you? That is where my wife and I did our undergrad and loved it there!Hmm create a test facility? What do you mean by this lewray?Last edited by hpfiend; 09-08-2008 at 09:20 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldtimerTresi and Craig about said it all. A/O welding in industry is basically a dead horse.
Reply:Not to start an arguement But I worked as an A&P for more than 15 years. O/a welding is allowed and used by many homebuilders, period correct restorations jobs and more often for repair of damaged airframes. This kind of work doesn't fall under the kind of certification your thinking of. To approve repair work you must hold an I.A. which means you must be an A&P for at least 3 years before you can take that test. Basically you must be a full time aircraft mechanic. The other way you can do it is to work for a repair station. You don't have to be an A&P to work for a repair station but most repair stations are going to only hire A&P's. Most repair stations are going to TIG it anyways or use more exotic methods for certian things. In my entire aviation career only once did I do any o/a welding on aircraft parts.
Reply:HPI can't recall having to get people to trust my ability.  Most people just expected me to do what I said I was going to do.  I only used  o/a on-site, I had a 220v stick welder to fabricate with.In addition to what I stated above,  I did antique repairs (brazing mostly).  I also had a job repairing topiaries ( wire lawn animals).  The vendor would get the stuff from Mexico and have me repair all the broken stuff--all fusion welds.  Easy stuff.    As I think ,  My first two clients from 8 yrs ago are still clients today.  I got them both from placing a business card on their property.  They just gave me the job and expected it to get done.  Ironic, I started  some steel steps for one of those clients today. Anyway, good luck to you.
Reply:I could tig and gas weld airplane parts that sounds very exciting to me and is exactly what I had in mind.What is an A&P?How would I find out more? Thanks for the insight Tapwelder- Once I get a little better I may drop a few cards...
Reply:Originally Posted by hpfiendI could tig and gas weld airplane parts that sounds very exciting to me and is exactly what I had in mind.What is an A&P?How would I find out more? Thanks for the insight Tapwelder- Once I get a little better I may drop a few cards...
Reply:First i want to awnswer the A&P thing.Forget it! Think about this - thousands and thousands of guys go in the military and work on aiplanes, All of those people will be your competition.Prior to 1972 the Air Force  had their own schools, so even though Air Force mechanics had at least 3 years experience actually working on modern planes they could not get jobs after the war becausue they did not have an A&P.After that the Air Force just sent the men to a A&P school so they would have an A&P.That is the basic story. It gets even more complicated.I knew a guy in who spent the $10,000 dollars to go to Sierra academy in Oakland Ca. to get a A&P, but when he got out that school he could only get a $10.oo per hour job.He ended up working for his brother on cars and made 4 times that much.About the Oxy-actylene qualification. As far as i know there is not one. There were some buildings built in the 1930's-40'sbuilt using that method, but they did not have the organization in welding inspection then that we have now.There is a building in Petaluma, California completely welded with gas welding.It is at 250 Petaluma BLVD. That is the only structure that i have ever seen completely gas welded.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 09-09-2008 at 06:06 PM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Hpfiend,As far as thinking about your future. I just would like to say something.If you close your eyes and pretend that you just won the lottery.NOW....without thinking very much ask yourself what would you want to do as your life work?Now for the very unconventional !I have spent most of my life being a mechanic ,welder, artist working with metal and ceramics.In my astrology chart i have Mars in Gemini. Which manifests as having a career working with fire and steel. I also built two steel boats and lived on them most of my life.I had three friends that also built steel boats and lived on them. Guess what? Yes, They all had Mars in Gemini in their charts.Follow your heart and your life will take the right path.In spite of yourself you will become who you are supposed to be.If you like to help PEOPLE with a skill maybe the medical field is right for you.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomHpfiend,As far as thinking about your future. I just would like to say something.If you close your eyes and pretend that you just won the lottery.NOW....without thinking very much ask yourself what would you want to do as your life work?Now for the very unconventional !I have spent most of my life being a mechanic ,welder, artist working with metal and ceramics.In my astrology chart i have Mars in Gemini. Which manifests as having a career working with fire and steel. I also built two steel boats and lived on them most of my life.I had three friends that also built steel boats and lived on them. Guess what? Yes, They all had Mars in Gemini in their charts.Follow your heart and your life will take the right path.In spite of yourself you will become who you are supposed to be.If you like to help PEOPLE with a skill maybe the medical field is right for you.
Reply:I know this thread has moved on some from the OP about O/A + certs but if i can move back a bit...Hpfiend,To me (generalising) certs/codes etc are job specific. A guy with CAA BCAR A8-10 certs for example isn't going to able use them to weld pressure vessels but they will probably help 'open doors' to 'test out'. Bear in mind that the 'code' can barely scratch the surface- BCAR A8-10 for example... there's 6 processes (2 of which are oxy fuel), 7 material groups and 5 joint types! Certs aren't like a degree/many other qualifications, you have to work to that standard to maintain them or they expire- i work for myself now, not 'coded' work and so am now 'uncertified'There's no point in paying out to become certified unless you're regularly working to the codes you certify to in order for them to be kept updated.
Reply:Originally Posted by makoman1860A&P is an Airframe and Powerplant mechanic. There are a couple ways to get this certificate, most are done through a 2-3 year tech school program. It covers all aspects of aircraft maintanence and repair, not just welding. FWIW O/A is still the standard taught at most schools, depending on the teacher. Also keep in mind welding is a very small part of typical modern aircraft construction, older aircraft use quite a bit more. Oh and im talking general aviation not commercial or military. Once you get your A&P you can go for your IA (Inspection Authorization), this allows you to "sign off" major repairs and alterations....but remember your also liable for it. A&P's are also liable for their work, and decisions, now and years later, thats why most if not all take it very seriously and dont tend to be "slipshod" like the automotive community. Its a different mindset, if your willing to put the effort forth, and tackle every job with knowledge, skill and sound decision making, I say go for it.
Reply:Originally Posted by tresiYou can just tests 3 written, 3 oral, and 3 practical but you must provide proof of 36 months of experience for the A & P or 18months for the airframe only to be allowed to to take the test. And once you get it you must work as an aircraft mechanic full time 6 out of 24 months to keep the license current.
Reply:Thank you everyone for taking the time to help me with your own experiences and insight!I am very impressed with the feedback I have received- very generous!I figured that was true about the certs I just didn't know how to start and my degree oriented mind thought that would help to open the door... Not sure I want to be a mechanic- I worked as a porsche/bmw mechanic a couple of summers and have worked on cars my entire life as a hobby.  Kind of a father son thing between my dad and I.  While I enjoy it it is not "clean" enough for me to do every day for life.  You know how it goes... some monkey cranked the living @%% out of a bolt and cross threaded it or it is rusted beyond belief, as a result you spend most of an afternoon with a torch, prayers, nut buster, busting knuckles, cursing, etc on that one bolt that is ancilliary to what you had planned on doing- just an example but that gets old fast for me.  Maybe if I were to do something precise like building a shortblock (the only thing automotive I have not done) it would be different- I did enjoy setting up the rearend on my Firebird.  I have often thought of just buying an engine and tearing it down, having it machined, and then rebuild it, but what would I do with it then, I dont have cars laying around with blown engines and I don't know who would buy an engine without knowing the reputation of who built it.  I have never been able to justify taking out a perfectly good engine in a running car to rebuild it. While I know very little about aircraft and do not know what "general aviation" is I would assume it to be similar being an automotive mechanic.  Also when I think aviation I think delta, southwest, USAF as to where I would try to get a job- what companies or organizations fall under "general aviation"? I have no problem with the liability.  I take pride in everything I do and will do it over rather than finish incorrectly- I also overbuild everything- my 5.0 mustang I just sold was built for 9s and only had the power for high 11s in the quarter mile as I wanted to drive it to the track, race it, and drive it home without worrying about it.  It was so factory driveable with the efi tuning that I could stand to drive it daily for 4 years with virtually no mechanical failures short of a bad front wheel bearing.Maybe I have mars in gemini as well as I really like everything related to steel and other metals but I like to cut, grind, polish, thread, bend, etc in addition to weld which is why I joined this forum and read it and occasionally post over the years.  If I were to win the lottery I would build an awesome shop with plasma, tig, big air compressor with hardlines, lathe, mill, cnc, lift, and other cool machines I probably haven't even seen before and I would be a machinist, welder, fabricator, inventor, prototyper... If anyone has seen ironman- that would be my dream.  I would like people to come with me with some crazy idea on paper or even in their head and have me make it into reality and pay me for it and I would use the equipment on the side to do my own hobbying and develop my own inventions.  Kind of like an architect builder but with machines/steel.  There is a company out there that does this I found shortly after college and it is what I would do but short of winning the lottery I can't figure out how to start it and don't know how it is going for them (IE are they keeping it afloat with personal investments or is it actually a self-sustaining venture).  I thought about trying to make it work solely an inventor as people probably wouldn't trust me with their ideas or pay me to make THEIR ideas a reailty but it seems like everytime I think I have a novel idea once I go check the patent database before prototyping it has already been patented but no product developed that I have seen anywhere- it would be hard to keep the lights on that way but I guess if I won the lottery ;-)  The skate shoes weren't patented back then but I was only 13.  I tried to talk my wife into being a patent attorney but she didn't like it and is a civil litigator which does suit her personality better as she is more a people person than a paper person.This is why I thought if I got certified in gas welding (as I have a torch and enjoy it and am decent at it) I could use that skill to make money to buy my tig, then use that to buy my plasma, then my mill, lathe, cnc, etc...  A father of a friend of mine was a mechanical engineer by degree who started up his own fabrication shop where he used to make new inventions for companies/solve their problems but he is now in foreclosure and had to fire all of his employees.  Another friend's dad was a machinist and he said he wouldn't recommend it due to competition from china and cheap labor and he retired just in time. In college I had some of the best experiences of my life hanging out on the formula SAE team with all of their awesome equipment and the project of creating a "race-car" from nothing with your imagination as your limit to fit within a few regulations- the problem was that the mechanical engineers wouldn't let me have a key to the shop or give actual responsibilities to a pre-med and with my studying/class load I didn't really have the time anyhow.  wow- sorry for the length I got sort of carried away.  It's kind of embarassing yet therapeutic to post all of this in a public forum.Last edited by hpfiend; 09-10-2008 at 09:15 AM.
Reply:A&P training. . . . . don't bother.I've been a card holding A&P for about ten years.  I worked for a whole whopping year as an A&P outside of my military career, and 911 squashed it.  The aviation industry hasn't been the same ever since.  I've moved on to bigger and better things, and though I don't regret the time I spent in aviation, I feel obligated to warn others considering heading in that direction.  Right now the only ones benefiting from A&P training are the schools collecting tuition.  Think about it. . . . . There's little reason not to achieve a mastery of any and all welding processes.  I feel like if you really enjoy it and are good at it, mastery of one will lead to opportunities to master (and perhaps benefit financially from) another.  Don't expect to get rich doing it, of course, but do expect to stay as busy as you want to be if you're actually good at it.Good luck,BK