Is 180 enough

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In the near future I am going to have the need to weld some 0.25 aluminum.  My current machine wont come close to touching this so I was looking at the Miller and Lincoln websites at some of their machines.  It seemed that on for the Lincoln 180 that it maxed out just under 0.25 on the little chart that they have.  On the Miller site though, their 180 machine says it welds up to 0.25. Which I am not sure if "up to" includes 0.25 or not.  Seems odd that two 180 machines wouldnt do the same thickness.  So basically what I am getting at is 1.  Is a 180 machine enough to do 0.25 aluminum on a rare occasion?2.  Is there really a difference in the two machines?
Reply:Originally Posted by MartygrasIn the near future I am going to have the need to weld some 0.25 aluminum.  My current machine wont come close to touching this so I was looking at the Miller and Lincoln websites at some of their machines.  It seemed that on for the Lincoln 180 that it maxed out just under 0.25 on the little chart that they have.  On the Miller site though, their 180 machine says it welds up to 0.25. Which I am not sure if "up to" includes 0.25 or not.  Seems odd that two 180 machines wouldnt do the same thickness.  So basically what I am getting at is 1.  Is a 180 machine enough to do 0.25 aluminum on a rare occasion?2.  Is there really a difference in the two machines?
Reply:Are we talking about GTAW SMAW GTAW SAW EBW ??????I'll assume GTAW (tig).I'll assume you have three parts with no dimension greater than 6" and you have all day to get it done. Sure a 180 GTAW will do you just fine. If you are talking about production and making a living off the machine (welding 1/4" aluminum) then no you'll want to step up  to a 250+ amp and machine liquid cooling for the torch.TJ
Reply:Good point " Rotund and paternally  challenged "It is  Mighttp://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p003439.htmSays 3/16 in single pass but they are refering to steel not ally.You could get away with it vee preping and multiple passes if only an occaisional use and not a structual application but its still a few amps short of what you want.BrettA good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:Yeah the machines will handle 1/4 inch.   I have the lincoln 180c. with spool gun. I have used the Miller and Hobart with spool gun.  I would recommend either over the lincoln for aluminum.  The Hobart 210 Handler is the best deal.  The Hobart rep. was in the parking lot at Northern Tool.  He set up the Hobart 210 and allowed me to use it--quite a nice unit.The lincoln is a nice welder, the spool gun is not good.  They may have improved it, I got one of the first guns.  I have welded a lot of aluminum with it.  Mine just seems to have a problem with arcing/wire sticking in the contact tip.Last edited by tapwelder; 10-23-2008 at 01:02 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderYeah the machines will handle 1/4 inch.   I have the lincoln 180c. with spool gun. I have used the Miller and Hobart with spool gun.  I would recommend either over the lincoln for aluminum.  The Hobart 210 Handler is the best deal.  The Hobart rep. was in the parking lot at Northern Tool.  He set up the Hobart 210 and allowed me to use it--quite a nice unit..
Reply:Should have been a bit more specific..... was asking about MIG.  Just the one application, which I even wondered about renting/borrowing a machine but it is going to be spread out over a large time period.  Good to know the Miller 180 will do it, that will save me ~800 over going up to the 215+  Figure that with some joint prep and a bit more time I will be good.  Will also have to check out the Hobart units.Thanks all.
Reply:Go with the 215-class machines as minimum.Lincoln PM215 is rated for a max weld on aluminum at 1/4 inch.  There is a difference going from the 180-class machines up to the 210/215-class machines.  It's not just the amps, but also the voltage at those amps that the 'bigger' machines can produce that give them more options and capabilities.Besides, when was the last time a welder complained that the machine had too much power?    You can pretty much always turn the power down, but you can't turn it up past what the machine can do.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:when was the last time a welder complained that the machine had too much power?
Reply:Just because you buy it don't mean you have to keep it after the project is finished. Resale would be better and a more capable machine than on the lower power unit.So buy the unit with all the bells and whistles and sell it to some contractor when you are finished, as long as it is shinny and new looking you'll get top dollar for it.
Reply:There is an idea..... maybe Tap needs that Hobart after all
Reply:OK, how about these reasons for the 'bigger' machine as well:- They can usually use the 12 inch diameter (30-45 lb'ers) spools, as opposed to the 180-class machines which don't have physical space in the wire compartment for anything bigger than the 8 inch diameter (10-12 lb'ers) spools;- They have enough voltage available to be able to run some of the 'smaller' dual-shield wires, the 180's usually don't; - They have enough voltage available to get into spray-mode with some wire diameters, the 180's really don't;- They often have the ability to have two guns and tanks hooked up and ready to go, the main gun and a spoolgun, the 180's do not;- They have the option of 50% longer gun cables (15 ft vs 10 ft);- They are bigger and beefier and More Power;etc.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Hello Martygras,You never specified what alloy Aluminum you are welding and what filler alloy. Generally .250” thick 6xxx series aluminum can be GMAW with common filler alloy such as 4043 or 5356. There is a sizable difference between the two fillers as far as amps and volts for the same diameter filler wire and the intended joint strength.Check with an Aluminum GMAW chart to see what it takes to get in the ballpark with your material thickness and welding situation/procedure. Compare that with what your machine is specked to do. All major manufacturers usually have a chart available on line within their website.You may be able to accomplish your welding job with your 180 amp machine if you preheat the material to within specs. as described by AWS Alum. Code. But you are probably pushing the limit of your machine.Sense I have been welding, I have found it more economical to buy a welding machine that you can grow “into” instead of “out-of”. Of course that advice is by my experience only but it seems to hold true with other related equipment also.Hope this helps.
Reply:Good points Moon, however most of them wouldnt really help me since I dont do alot of welding (gone through 22 lbs in the last 3 years of steal), never used spray mode (although I have REALLY wanted to see what it was like), and would only need one gun at a time, BUT more power is always good.OMS:  It is going to be 5xxx series (marine) aluminum.  I agree it is ussually better to grow into a machine, since you can always turn it down, just some times hard to justify double the cost on the chance that you would need more when you have been fine with the same machine for 10+ years of hobby use.  Truth is I will probably either end up with the 210/215 or even the 255 if I can find a good deal, since I am the stero typical guy and like bigger and better.  Or I will borrow/rent a machine.  Figure I have a couple of months before this project is going to come to be, but never too early to start shopping for a good deal.
Reply:There is also 4 points :Because everyone is on a budget one  180 amp machine is better than no 210 amp machine..A 210 amp machine in another 2 months of saving is better than a 180 now.A machine that wont do what you want is useless.A machine that will do what you want even if its pushed to the limit is good.A good guess is better than a bad measurement