Getting Fuel

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Hello,I'd like to get some natural gas and oxygen for glassworking.  Will welder supply places drop off the gas tanks at any residence, or do they have to be through some special dealer?  Is it legal to transport tanks in private cars? (in Pennsylvania?)  I'm talking about the smallest tanks they have available, trying to start slow.  Any insight would be helpful.Thanks
Reply:If you are talking about using glass rods and melting them in the fire to make things (horses, punch bowls, etc...), you may be able to get away with propane. You should have no problem carrying those in a vehicle but you should still check. I doubt that it would be easy to get them delivered to a residence without an extra charge.Give a bit more info on what your doing, I may have some history in it.
Reply:The larger tanks have safety caps for the valves, but the smaller tanks do not. COmpanies like Airgas, Praxair will deliver, but it is not cost effective for a small user. I would buy the size tank I need, and just make the trip myself...that is what I do. Secure the bottle from rolling around, and you will be fine. I think Bob has a good point; a rosebud torch with propane can do the trick for glass bending/ blowing. You will want to think about a small oven/ kiln to heat and stack your glass in. Hope this helps, Paul.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:My father made his living for 30 years making ships, animals, motorcycles, carousels, etc.....I was taught how but did not want to be FORCED to learn I was about 10-16 years old during this time) so I had no interest. I got pretty good but lack of interest drove me away. Wish I had learned better.  He used oxygen and propane for his torch and used pyrex glass rods to make the items.Bob
Reply:I could use propane, but natural gas burns more cleanly.  I suppose picking them up myself would be the best bet.  I'd imagine those signs they have on trucks carrying flammable gas are only for when they are carrying a crapload of the stuff.  I've got a glassworker friend who is willing to help set everything up once I get the gas.  Mainly, i just wanted to make sure that its legal to drive around w/ a couple tanks of flammable gas.  I suppose ppl move around little propane tanks all the time though.
Reply:Natural gas is liquefied for transport by large shipping vessels, and is used in vehicles like buses, but around here I have not heard of it's being sold in smaller cylinders as propane and other gasses are.It contains a high proportion of Methane so should have a higher pressure than propane and butane.
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2Natural gas is liquefied for transport by large shipping vessels, and is used in vehicles like buses, but around here I have not heard of it's being sold in smaller cylinders as propane and other gasses are.It contains a high proportion of Methane so should have a higher pressure than propane and butane.
Reply:In Louisiana (it may be different elsewhere) you only have to be placarded / hazmat endorsed if you're carrying more than 1000# worth of cylinders.  Some companies will deliver to residences, some will not.  My delivery trucks will not fit into a "normal" residential driveway... so we generally shy away from residential deliveries.  We also are FORBIDDEN to load any cylinder inside of any vehicle.  If you get into a wreck and somehow shear off the valve of your oxygen cylinder, it will turn into a missile.   Now I can fill one and give it to you, and if you want to put it in your car, that's up to you... but we definitely recommend against it if you have an alternative means of transporting the cylinder.That being said, start off with an "R-20" or a 20 cubic foot oxygen and an "MC" sized Acetylene.  Their are definite advantages to "alternative" fuel gasses, but on the scale you are talking about, those advantages would be insignificant.  Take a look at Victor's Cutskill outfits... they're a great entry level system.  If you find them to expensive, there's a knock off company called Gentec that offers a similiar product at a reduced price.Good Luck,R
Reply:[QUOTE=Jackobear;224468]I could use propane, but natural gas burns more cleanly...QUOTE]Interesting...  Natural gas comes from the ground, often from oil fields and though predominently methane (CH4) is usually a stew of a variety of gasses including carbon monoxide,  it depends on the gas field from which it was extracted as to exactly what gasses it contains.  Because of the variations of content the usable energy varies from one source to the next.  Propane (C3H8) is one of the commonly called "LP" (Liquid Petroleum) gasses.  The other common LP gas is butane (C4H10)  Except for the methyl mercaptan that is added to provide it's distinctive odor (as is done with natural gas) propane contains nothing else.  LP can be provided as a mixture of propane and butane but if you are buying propane then that is what you will get.Propane has more than twice the heat content in BTUs per unit volume as compared to natural gas, the exact amount more depends on the source of natural gas which is used for comparison.  I always thought that because of it's purity will burn cleaner than natural gas.a couple of references: http://www.superiornrg.com/property.htmhttp://www.npga.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=462Putting that to rest, I have seen many glass artists work from a 100 lb. cylinder of propane burning with just air, no oxygen required.   But if you need it to be hotter you can use oxygen.  I would contact any local residential propane supplier and inquire about getting a 100 lb cylinder.  Some suppliers swap them out, some just dispatch a tank truck and refill them at your residence.  If you are using oxygen too then you will need to see the LWS for that.  Usually you buy a cylinder and then swap it out with a full one when empty.  But you own the cylinder, much like the Blue Rhino company does with the 20lb propane pigs used with backyard gas grills.Good luck!-MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:if you buy cylinder make sure it comes with avalve that will permit truck delivery, some cylinders have the wrong valve to get home delivery..
Reply:Posted by AndyA:I don't think natural gas (methane) will compress to a liquid without refrigeration. I could be wrong.