Opinion on labor

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Ok I know this has been covered before but wanted to get some input. I did a job for a guy last year about this time that consisted of taking a 38ft tanker that had been hauling tar and converting it to haul manure from a local dairy and a hog farm. I had to deskin the thing,remove all the 2" insulation,open up the center divider wall and enlarge the opening in the baffles that were located every 3 feet.Then cap off one dump port on bottom,fabricate a tee dump pipe off the other bottom port,remove one orginal fill hatch and fabricate a 2'x2'x3' load chute/box weld it in,then repair 2 circumferential weld seams and weld scab plates over them like the other two that had been repaired before. Now i got $700 worth of scrap alum.from it then charged $1600 on top of that for the job that took 60 hours. This included all materials and consumables i used and worked out roughly to $38 an hour. The guy thought it was way too steep and seemed shocked. I thought it was reasonable considering how nasty the damn thing was covered inside and out with tar and him bringing me the nastiest junk scrap to build the load box out of,it was and old alum. tool box that was greasy and even had remains of a dead bird in it.......lol. This was shop work and mostly the reason I'm wondering what some of you think is he wants modifications done to it now and also wants another tanker done that he bought that only hauled water and this time will mostly be done on site with my truck. Was I reaonable or is he just a tightazz?Syncrowave 250Millermatic251Trailblazer302Thermal Dynamics cutmaster52
Reply:Hey ShaneG.,He's back; so in the long run it seems he's probably been happy with your work and price, that's good. If your happy too - go again. Don't forget that field work can be slower and more costly than shop work. Originally Posted by Shane G. I did a job for a guy last year about this time that consisted of taking a 38ft tanker that had been hauling tar...Now i got $700 worth of scrap alum.from it then charged $1600 on top of that for the job that took 60 hours. This included all materials and consumables i used and worked out roughly to $38 an hour....
Reply:Never met a dairyman that wasn't a tight SOB.  You should see the ways they try to raise the fat content in the milk.  If you remember, all Mad Cow cases were in dairy animals sent to slaughter.Sure he wants another one done.  No damn shop around is gonna do it for what you did it for.  Just hope there's no problem with the thing, because a dude like that will definitely sue ya.I deal with other guys every year on hay sales.  Cheap a$$ bastards.  They try to tell ya that your hay is crap, and hope they can convince ya to sell it to them for nothin'.After all this, they start tellin' ya about the trip to Branson with the wife last month.  Y'all take 2 less trips a year, and ya kin pay me a fair price for my hay!!!!!!!!!!F ya.  Go feed your cows newspapers for all I care!!!!"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammNever met a dairyman that wasn't a tight SOB.
Reply:This was shop work and mostly the reason I'm wondering what some of you think is he wants modifications done to it now and also wants another tanker done that he bought that only hauled water and this time will mostly be done on site with my truck.
Reply:But we can't kick the job to the curb based on emotion.We need to consider the shop's needs, costs, and local market conditions.If the shop and customer can get together for some mutually beneficial  business, that's what counts. For ShaneG the second one will probably be easier than the first. He needs to figure out what the field working conditions will be like, do his math, and bid it at a rate that he and customer can both live with.Remember that with field work, any scrap will probably stay behind.Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 01-22-2009 at 12:32 AM.
Reply:Alfred's got a point, but the real calculation is whether you're just exceeding overhead with not much contribution to profit.  Times being what they are, maybe it's a good way to stay in business, but how long can you keep going if you're wearing out equipment doing marginal jobs.I've had lean years, and rather than sell hay, I keep it and feed it down the road.  It's a rough decision, and rougher still if you have bills to pay.  Hell, I really don't know"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Let's put it this way.  Overhead allows you to stay in business if you're able to actually bank the money to replace the equipment you're depreciating.  If you have to use that money for other than what it should be used for, you're on a downhill spiral."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:If he can't accept $40 an hour for you, your truck, and tools, for welding work that is not sticking a fence together?? He's too cheap to work for. Let him find out that other welders are charging $60 an hour. That will teach him.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Thanks for the replys. The $38 was after consumables and material was taken out. there are not alot of places around here that will do portable work anymore.One that has been around forever is retiring this year and is pretty much done except for the gravy stuff. The guys at the dairy break so much stuff he told them to stop bringing it to them....lol. Done a job on site there yesterday and charged $75 and hour for 2 hours,they had a leaky tanker back in the fall and I charged $85 for about 15 minutes worth of work because they needed it fixed after they got it out of the field and empty about 8 o'clock at night. I was just wondering because I can stay over and work overtime at my dayjob and get more than $38 on time and a half.Syncrowave 250Millermatic251Trailblazer302Thermal Dynamics cutmaster52
Reply:Originally Posted by Shane G.Thanks for the replys. The $38 was after consumables and material was taken out.......Done a job on site there yesterday and charged $75 and hour for 2 hours,they had a leaky tanker back in the fall and I charged $85 for about 15 minutes worth of work because they needed it fixed after they got it out of the field and empty about 8 o'clock at night. I was just wondering because I can stay over and work overtime at my dayjob and get more than $38 on time and a half.
Reply:My bill would have been $7350.00 plus a charge for hauling his scrap to the recyclers. Now he wants the same deal on a field job about twice the hours so $14,000.00At $38.00 gross you aint making any money! Spin it all ways from Sunday $38.00 an hour won't hardly get me into your shop as an employee. My hands get $33.00 an hour + another $20.00 P/H for health and retirement. Now add my half of the employee tax and insurance (work comp liability and such) my cost to have a hand show up on the job is over $80.00 per hour now add some for mistakes and the face that he aint no where near as motivated as me to get-er-dun +++ a bit o profit and some for consumables and fixing the sheit he broke and electric phone gas oil accountant lawyer .....Dude you are taking it in the shorts...Unless you are just some hack working out of papas side yard and not a real business. In the end you got to feed your self so get as much as you can because tomorrow some hack will come along and under bid you. He wont have work comp or liability insurance so the rate will go up yet again for all the rest of us honest business owners. Good luck Remember I screw the other guy and pass the savings on to you.