Newbie question...Our 220V burns right through!

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We got a 220V Lincoln and its a monster!We need to weld floor pans into 2 cars and we've been playing around with plain old sheet metal scraps and we can't get anything to weld together...just burns through. We've played with a few different electrodes & have turned the welder down to its lowest but still burns right through. The floor pan metal is thicker but maybe not thick enough.We've already invested in the unit & hardwired a new longer cord & plug so it'd make it to our only outlet big enough to power it. In retrospect we should've gone for the 110V but...well, we're new to this & figured we'd get something that would be good for anything else we wanted to do. Overkill I guess.Does anyone have any suggestions?
Reply:ummm,How about giving us some more info...220 V Lincoln isn't any where close to telling us your problem.  Anything 220 that Lincoln makes should have enough amperage control to weld anything.  Monster?  What may be a monster to you is someone else's Fischer Price toy.   Is it a Tig, stick or mig or flux core machine?  If its mig, what kind of wire and gas are you using? Size of wire?.  If its stick, are you using the right polarity?  What kind/size of rod are you using.  What model is it? It should be clearly written on the pace plate or side of the welder somewhere or at least on the serial number plate.I am trying to say this politely and gently, but if you say you have a 220V Lincoln...and you say you are burning through floor pans,...I hear the moans of several hundred guys all thinking the same thing:  Why on earth are you trying to weld something that delicate when you don't even know enough to tell us what kind of welder you have?I do wish you good luck.  But I think that you need to offer a LOT more info on the welder and the size and type of wire/electrode you are using.  And if it is a mig or tig, the type of gas mixture you are using.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Must be a stick welder if he said electrode.Not too good on thin stuff."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Not too good on thin stuff.
Reply:farmersamm  farmersamm  WeldingWeb Artisan  Join Date: Aug 2008Posts: 2,500 Samm;Did you notice? You just hit the Big One!Pretty good for a beginner!.
Reply:I run off at the mouthI promise to never again, as long as I live, to put anything off topic up again i can't help it"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:starting tomorrow"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Okay. SHE will do her best. My apologies for hijacking but quite frankly, I just need to get some good info so if someone is upset that I am posting in the wrong place, please just curse me out in silent & let someone who doesn't mind that I've sinned share some wisdom.  Just consider me as ignorant on following posting instructions as I am on welding.Why on earth are you trying to weld something that delicate when you don't even know enough to tell us what kind of welder you have?Remember, things aren't always what they seem. I'm asking this covertly as the husband wouldn't admit to needing advice ; )At least I know enough to seek the advice of those who know.  Lincoln AC-225 stick. I'm happy to find out whatever additional info will help with any advice.We haven't even tried on the pans yet. We've just started & wouldn't dare attempt to weld something that important before we get the hang of it. And its a monster to me. I'll bet you've never wrestled a cute lil' 9 foot gator, now have you?
Reply:Get yourself some 1/8" thick square tubing/angle iron and build the hay wagon you always wanted, then go and repair the rusty entrance gate to the ranch, and when your done with that you can attach some brackets to the frame of your tractor. But wait... you say you don't want to do any of those things... then why did you buy a welder designed mainly for those types of projects?Seriously, you made a mistake getting that machine. I'd recommend that you return/sell it and buy something like a Hobart Handler 187 (the HH187 will do all of the above, plus it is capable of welding your 22 gauge floor pans). However, if you refuse to heed this advice and still insist on using the AC225 for your floor pans, then get some 3/64 6013 electrodes and a thick piece of flat copper stock to place behind the area you are welding (heat sink backing). By making a series of extremely short (almost tack-like) stitches, along with a sacrifice of 2 or 3 chickens to the welding gods, you have a slight chance of avoiding burn-through. I wish you luck--you'll need it.
Reply:I thought this might be a helpful forum even for those of us new to welding or trying to learn more about welding, but after reading the responses, I guess I was wrong. Obviously, you all never had any questions as a beginner and ALL of your questions were appropriate and addressed in total. As a professional in another field, I hope I never am so criticle as to discourage someone from TRYING to learn.
Reply:Bryan,I certainly wasn't trying to discourage anyone from learning, but when you don't have even enough basic info to even take a stab, then said poster should realize that questions may be asked to clarify.  Should we sugar coat the questions and ask"Okay now, sweetie, lets see if you can find the decal and please tell us what it says...Okay? can't find the decal? That's allright, just look at the front page in your instruction manual, hon, you know the little white booklet that came with your welder...Sug, you say you threw it away? Well, baby, that's alright.What's the box say that it came in? Made in China? No, not that one... Yes, I know, we all have difficulties like that."Is that an efficient and professional response?  No, clear and to the point, is professional.  I gave HER the simple info we needed to tell him what was needed to start. So here goes my reply.  Take note of the further clarification.Afrodesia,It would appear that you have a new version of the very basic and introductory welder that many of us learned on known affectionately as a Lincoln buzzbox, or a Lincoln crackerbox or commonly as a "tombstone" due to its coffin shaped top.  Trust me,  110 would not help you any more.  Sheet metal is better handled by the  MIG or GMAW (the same thing:Metal Inert Gas, aka. Gas Metal Arc Welding) because it can be more inifinitely controlled and a small wire size and speed may be selected.  But this is not to say a buzzbox welder isn't up to the task.  Your skills must be up to the task of the Lincoln tombstone abilities to do it though.   To start with,  have you adjusted the Amperage settings with the knob on the front of the machine?  Sheet metal is going to be in the lower range, maybe even down to the 50 amp range.  Also, you must have the right electrode aka "rod".  There are many kinds of rods for welding many different materials.  Among your most common are 6011, 6013, 7014, 6010, and the gold standard of certified welders and shade tree strikers everywhere: 7018.Although each rod will have its individual charachteristics, all do weld metal.  But the ones you will want to purchase are the 6013 or 7014 for this application.  I would surmise if you bought this welder at a Lowe's or Home Depot, they probably handed you a pack of 6011's, a great general purpose rod. But in your particular application it is one of the worst possible selections because it "burns" very forcefully and will blow holes through thin metal.A 6013 has a soft, fluid and slightly buttery arc and deposits molten metal relatively fast. Which is also good, because most beginners travel too fast anyway.  A 7014, flows quickly as well and with the right amperage settings can be coaxed quite easily into sheet metal work.  If a 6013 is hard to find, a 7014 will sub, though it may be a little more difficult.  Hold on, we are not through.  Next is the correct electrode/rod diameter.  Thin is in...  The most readily acquired rod will probably be somewhere around 1/8 inch. It says on the outside of the packaging, usually on the outside flap of the box, along with the rod classification.You may also find what kind of rod is being used by looking on the rod itself.  It is printed on the "stinger" end where it is held by the electrode holder, though the size probably won't be printed.  However, you NEED a smaller diameter rod than 1/8.   It would be wise to look for a 1/16 or slightly large rod.  Here is where your knowledge of fractions will come in.  Look for anything you can find smaller than 1/8.    Go to your LWS(local welding supplier) for professional help. Not home cheapot.  Your LWS will have what you need.  But if perchance Lowe's has what you need...great, but you need to still drop by the LWS.Con't in part 2. next post.Last edited by lugweld; 02-02-2009 at 09:14 AM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Let's review:Rod/electrode classification: 6013Size: Less than 1/8" preferable a 1/16Amperage setting on the welder: low end of the scale.Now if you are starting low on the scale of the welder, then the only place you have to go is up.  Let's start welding.After doing all the necessary legwork, i.e. turning the selector down on the welder, turning it on etc. Put the rod in the holder and make sure you have grounded the work piece properly.Gently tap the rod on the metal work piece to start the arc.  You should see sparks and may even initiate the arc.   You must hold the electrode off the work piece ever so slightly to keep the arc going. Now if you can't get an arc started by tapping, try striking the electrode like a match, with a short swift stroke of the electrode against the work piece in the area to be welded.  Once you establish your arc, keep it close to the metal, no more than the width of your electrode.  Too far and it will hiss, to close and it may stick.If you are still having problems getting your arc started, then you will need to adjust your amperage up.  Turn your selector knob clockwise and to the right ONE notch.  Repeat this process until you have "just" enough "juice" to keep the elecricity flowing.  Now as the rod burns off, you will have to keep moving the rod into the "puddle" of molten metal, always moving it forward.  Don't hold your rod at a low angle.  Keep the rod "on top" of the work, just slight angling the rod for comfort and visibility. Close to 90 degrees to the work.  Generally its recommended to be about 15 degrees shy of 90 (75 degees).  But that is not as critical, because that comes with practice.  Keep the rod moving  at this point only as fast as the rod melts off.  Don't rush ahead of the puddle.  Watch the puddle of molten metal and watch it come off and form. Now, quickly but gently move it forward a little at a time.  With all that said,  practice on a HEAVIER piece first.  This will allow you some forgiveness until you get the techinque down. Practicing on the sheet metal first is a major flaw in thinking.  You need to start by practicing on heavier materials where you can see your goofs after you quit welding.  If you goof on sheet metal, the metal will fall through. If you goof on a heavier object, you will be able to see it and tell what happened afterward.  Practice arc starting, Arc length control, puddle manipulation, rod angle, and rod travel until things start to clean up.  Do a search for a proper looking weld here in the search box.  If what you see starts to faintly resemble the pro's then you are on the right track.  That is about all I can tell you right now until you have experienced a little more and then have more specific questions.  Good luck. P.S. the 225 amp setting is only AC current right?  Lincoln also makes these welders in AC/DC.  It will say something like 225/125 AC/DC and will have another switch that selects polarity.  If you do have this version, select AC to start.  It will be the easiest to learn.  Then play with DC and its polarity.Oh, by the way, 14 foot gators aroung here are considered, mosters. 9 footers are pets.Last edited by lugweld; 02-02-2009 at 09:23 AM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:bryan,The welder you have demands an extremely high level of skill to do thin material like floor pans. Get a MIG (wire feed welder) with a shielding gas kit, use the .024 wire.Make short welds.I got a Hobart Handler 135 (110v machine) just to do body work. At the time Northern tools had a special on them which included free shipping..  http://www2.northerntool.com/welding...em-1646140.htm
Reply:who hijacked what?Don't get a new welder , learn to use what you have and you will be better off in the long run.  Five years from now when you buy that new mig, you will be able to plug  and  play.  The hard part will be behind you.Also look into burn through tack welding (or am i out of line here guys?)A butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:Now we're getting somewhere.You can call me sugar, sweetie, hun...I really don't care just as long as I'm learning a little something about welding which is why I came here in the first place. I'd like to remind you however, that this forum is open to anyone, no matter the skill level. Thank you Lugweld, Mag Mechanic, MK10, etc. Very good stuff. Its the husband's machine (as I have stated repeatedly) but I like swooping in with a little knowledge & maybe getting the job done. I'm kinda liking it though so I can continue to get better & eventually move onto the pans. The cars aren't going anywhere (especially without floor boards.)  I will thoroughly read the advice given & I think it'll all work out. I may pop on here again with some questions, but y'all know I'm ignorant already so bear with me. I suggest those with weak constitutions disregard my nonsense.  *I prefer playing with the 9 footers. 14 footers are way too slow to be fun anymore.
Reply:Mag,You make a point.Short welds will keep the metal from getting to hot.  "tacking" as is called,Afrodesia, is a short weld, almost a spot weld that keeps things together while you adjust or assemble the rest.  In fact tacking on something like this makes sense.  You tack everything together first then go on to weld between the welds.  I suggest working on opposing sides a little at a time. You will have some distortion.  That is normal, and to be expected.  However, you will minimize by welding an inch or two at a time on opposing sides.  Almost in the same manner you would tighten lug nuts on a car.  You don't just go around and go in a circle, you make a cross pattern.  Its the same thing here.  If you start welding at one side,  and just keep going,  I can tell you that you will probably have a huge gap where you didn't before.  Also, a take time to stop and chip the slag off the welds, allowing you to observe how the welds are looking and giving the metal a chance to cool and give you a chance to pry or adjust the panel back in line.  To tack properly,  I would tack as I said, eventually leaving only 4 or 5 inches between tack welds.  Then, you can go back and "fill" in the welds, still using and alternating pattern.  You've got a lot of work cut out for you.  Patience is key to successful welding.BTW what kind of cars are these?  And is this a restoration, or just trying to keep a ride?  If its just for getting from point A to point B,  a little less than perfect is acceptable.  The problem is that so many people watch these really great shows on the Discovery channel and the learning channel and watch people doing this everyday.  They make it look easy.  So people sit at home and say: Hey! I can do that....Only to find out as you have, it takes skill and considerable knowledge.  It is easy...if you know how.  Some of these guys grew up with a welding torch in one hand and a sippy cup in the other.  If you saw the first Pilot of OCC on The Learning Channel,  Paulies welding was really bad, at least in my estimation.  He had an understanding, but it wasn't spectacular in quality.  Now he has super welding machines that make things easy and he has gotten much better.Again, I would emphasize to you, look up your LWS.  A ten minute visit with him/her can have you more knowledge than a day or two with us.  Of course, be nice enough to purchase something, even if it is soapstone or a ball valve marker, or ...a MIG welder.   I am sure he will tell you just as we have that MIG welder is much easier and better suited to this job.  A decent MIG with 220 V input will cost in the neighborhood of 600.00 just so you know. Probably will be a 180 amp machine.Then, you need to rent or lease a gas bottle with shielding gas, but that isn't much more expensive. It is possible to use a flux core wire with out the shielding gas, but the wire is much more money.  The shielding gas, or the flux in the core is the same as the coating on the rod.  It forms a protective "shield" over the metal, keeping damaging Oxygen away from the weld until it solidifies.  The gas dissipates, the flux has to be chipped off, just like the flux on the rods you use in your welder now.  Chip away all flux before you weld on top of the cooled weld.  Oh, and go to AutoZone or Advance and go to their repair manual section.  They have a 20.00 manual on welding.  It isn't the best manual, but pictures and the general advice it gives are invaluable.Last edited by lugweld; 02-02-2009 at 12:53 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:use a small piece of wire between your ground and your work to further reduce your amperage. maybe an electrode clamped to the grnd and then to your table.itll get hot and maybe glow but it will reduce your amperage. good luck w/the stick. its gonna make an awful job or floorpans even if you do get it to werk. crappy scally and is gonna require a ton of welding and filling to make look smooth...dont even bother doin any other panels on a car w/it..theyll be so warped youll never be able to smooth them over enuff for paint
Reply:go get some  scrap, some  1/16 or 3/32 6013 and try it till it works...remember to send fotos and  its ok to say sh*t.......
Reply:Originally Posted by afrodesiaWe got a 220V Lincoln and its a monster!We need to weld floor pans into 2 cars and we've been playing around with plain old sheet metal scraps and we can't get anything to weld together...just burns through....
Reply:Posted by Oldiron2:Seriously, Lugweld is correct in saying that we have to know the details of what you're doing to give any good advice.I wonder if there's anyway to write a 'sticky' with these "rules" which a newby would have to read and 'check off' on before being allowed to post a question? You know, rules about details, hijacking threads.....
Reply:As for repeating advice, I figured that since this is a general welding question area, I was pretty safe. If someone doesn't want to repeat advice, they don't have to. They can just navigate away. One thing I've learned is that there's always someone ready to jump on someone for asking an 'inane' question and always someone else willing to lend advice (as I've seen here. Thanks again!) As for the 'cursing' I just anticipated it going in that direction. I was saving folks the effort ; )   Thanks for the welcome.The cars are '66 & '67 VW Bugs. Only pans, no visible body stuff. Wouldn't dare. We had intended not to weld a bead anyway, just tack welding. They get bolted on as well and it doesn't have to look pretty. Although I'm not fond of doing work & having it look like sh**. They're not poor fitting pans though. We were smart enough to buy the heaviest gauge and we've ground the chassis down to clean, shiny metal. We read about opposing welds to avoid gapping and we'll try to reduce amperage too. Husband is pretty good mix of practical, handy & careful (with a little extra stubborn thrown in) so I'm thinking he can do it with enough practice.If that doesn't work...Anyone want to trade welders? ; )Last edited by afrodesia; 02-02-2009 at 01:26 PM.Reason: added info
Reply:Afrodesia,Craiglist it.  You might just have yourself a new MIG.Bugs...I was thinking it might be something like that. If you are bolting,  then I feel much better about your chances.  The issue is controlling warping and burnthrough. Get the small rods and turn the heat down, and you will be able to do it eventually.Just curious, where did you get your welder anyway?Last edited by lugweld; 02-02-2009 at 01:35 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Well Lug did well in his description of this and his help/ Obviously someone sold these poor folks a welder without even asking what they were using it for. The Lincoln tombstone is an excellent welding for many applications but Sheet metal is not one of them.  Without knowing whatever esle this welder would be used for my personal recommendation would be if they still have the original box and all! Bring it back. Get a Mig that has a gas capabilty. My father owned 5 auto body shops and all sheet metal work was done with gas mig.  I went on to do steel fabrication of auto restoration using gas migs and tig. Now can you weld sheet metal with a tombstone "Yes'!!! But it requires "some" skill of both stick welding , sheet metals, rod selection, temp selection, and both a good eye and hand contol on that stick.  Reason is that you have to adjust as you move that stick and watch how the flow, temp, and steel are reacting otherwise you burn thru' Stick also will not give you a nice flowing solid weld. The gas mig or  tig will give a fine weld, smooth and strong finish. If this is a car or truck that is basically a work vehicle ok. But if your restoring that vehicle you'll want experience and the right machine. A botched job on a collectable restoration can mean  alot of $$$$$$ on your value or sale of that vehicle.TomLast edited by specter; 02-02-2009 at 01:47 PM.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Lugweld; look at what is on CL here right now:  [I know, way too new, but still a good example.]SF bay area craigslist > east bay > free stuff  Free vw 1974 super beetle clean title no motor trans (dublin / pleasanton / livermore)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Reply to: [email protected]  Date: 2009-02-01, 1:41AM PSThello we are giving away a good condition repairable vw super beetle with the title, we are moving and need room on our side yard where it's stored so it's gotta go. It's 95% complete needs a motor transmission and small miscelaneous parts, it was a daily driver before the previous owner took the motor for another project we paid $300 for it as a parts car but only used the mirrors and a few guages off the dash. You tow no qurestions asked, give me a call 925-321-xxxx, I can email a pic as well. Thanks, -spencer.     PostingID: 1016120837
Reply:My 2¢.I see nothing wrong with using the welder they already have.  Bought my Linde ac buzz box to fix a wrecked 1960 Buick electra convertable (using an old speed queen for body panels) and tought myself to use it's.  It the only welder i'v had till i got my MILLER 251 last year.  It has served me well for 39 years.Again, just my My 2¢.A butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bugWhere are you located ?Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:for thin metal, Ive had good luck even using my Forney 220 AC using 3/16 6011 and obviously AC. If you have an AC/DC, I would suggest using AC and 6011. and quick whips
Reply:correction, I meant 3/32
Reply:It can be done and don't give up too easily.  When I was in high school (more like junior high) I tought myself to use the Centry buzz box with a high freque box inbetween with what ever rods I could find in the shop and spot welded all the floor pans and one new quarter on my 66 Mustang(my first car and I still have it).  Practice and patience, slow as you go and keep the drag short, or maybe try quick stitch burn throughs. Just make sure the pieces are tight together when you are welding.Jack of all, master of none
Reply:Again what they can or cannot do with that welder will have to do with their determination, expectations and skill.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:determinationisthe key word, with that will come skill.afrodesia, here's wishing you the best of luck and skill (and patience cause you're going to need it.)A butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:Whatever the decision, the work has to be right, because the floor is the structural heart of a VW Beetle.Well... There's one way to settle this.Who has a Lincoln tombstone and a camera?Magnetic - You remember the speedometer in your Buicx?
Reply:Oh and if you pdo plan to do this on your own practice , Practice and PRACTICE on some similiar sheet metal before you actually work on that vehicle.And Oh yeah make sure there are no electricical wires or fuel lines in the area of your welds. Otherwise you and your work could end in a blaze of Glory.TomCo-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Give this a look.http://hemineko.net/wp/rupp-update-5...3-rear-fender/ Ranger 8 3200HD 225 Cracker Box
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepMagnetic - You remember the speedometer in your Buicx?
Reply:Tomsexpress - Ya but... No weld pictures at the link. Regardless, the floor welds need to be sound.Magnetic - I've trampled enough threads so I'll make it quick. Remember the speedo had a thumbwheel knob to adjust viewing angle?How's that possible?Well the "speedometer" was actually a reflection in a mirror. The knob tilted the mirror; the actual "backwards" speedometer face was below. You'd never guess looking at it. Strange car gimmicks, huh? I had a '60 coupe, but that's another story.Back to VW floors. Who's doing the demo? I'm out - no tombstone.Last edited by denrep; 02-02-2009 at 05:27 PM.
Reply:Samm, I think your up to bat here buddy.If any one can it might be you.  I've no tombstone.  My dad has a 225/125 AC DC but its 250 miles away.   My A/C box doesn't qualify...besides my plug broke on it.  Meant to get a new one today, but somehow going and buying my wife feminine products at the W=store, my concentration got broken.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:The machine can do the job, the operator needs to learn how to make the machine do the job. Using scrap and the lowest setting, with 1/16" 6013 just try to run some beads and show us pictures.  You will get help.Starting out on thin sheet with a new machine and little welding experience is doing it the hard way.  IF you do learn and get the job done, then it will be all worth it.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:OK LUGWELDThis is what a Lincoln 225 AC can do on thin material.Approx. 1/8 sheet welded to some pretty thin stuff..... maybe 16gaModification on windrow shield Hesston 1014 swather.Probably did it around 10yrs. ago.  VERY FAST, AND I MEAN FAST, 6013 small dia. rod one or two steps down from 1/8, probably around 45amps.  Also notice the small burnthroughAin't pretty, but ya can do itI'm sure a lot of guys can do it better than I did Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Ok, now that the pics have been up for a bit.... Let'd do a forensics thing on the weld in pic 2 so that the OP knows what she's lookin' at.Weld progression is from right to left.Innitial application of heat was too much because the travel was too slow.  So there's a burnthrough.The next couple of inches shows over compensation for the burnthrough.  Travel speed too fast, and bad tie in to the adjoining piece of metal.  The puddle wasn't washing hot enough into the shoulder for good penetration or fusion.Final half of weld is ok because I finally figured out the right travel speed without burning thru, but still slow enough to allow for a good wash into the shoulder.Never worked on thin stuff like this before, at the time, and can't recall ever having to deal with something that thin since.To me, it's the beauty of working with stick welding.  You can alter your technique as you move along.  It's pretty much all in the hands, and it can be done in a split second.The little AC machines are really capable of a lot.  The work of a well trained, experienced weldor will amaze you.  This is just farm welding, and not the best out there."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:As a note, the pans are 18ga I think so maybe that'll make a difference & we'll be doing plug welds on it. Broccoli...we're in Sacramento, CA area.Thanks so much for all the input & pics. We're studying hard.Last edited by afrodesia; 02-02-2009 at 08:00 PM.Reason: saw answer
Reply:Plug welds ought to be much easier than trying to do a continuous bead.They don't have to look good, all they have to do is adequately fuse the two surfaces.  You have to grind off the ugly stuff anyway.It's gonna be a really fast swirly dit dot kinda thing.  Once you get the rythem(sp?), it'll be pretty straightforward.Withold supper if he doesn't get it right"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:And real fastI'd think you'd do best if you put the heat towards the outside of the plug hole where there's 2 layers of sheet metal.  It can take the heat better.  In this case I don't think you wanna start in the middle and work out to the edge of the hole"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:When we built our shop, I built these stairs to the storage deck over the offices.  We used leftover red iron (I think it's called Z purlin, could be wrong though) anyway, it's probably the thinnest stuff I've ever welded with stick.  I used our old 225 buzzbox with 3/32" 6010, and it wasn't that hard to do.  I was 16 at the time, and that's been 21 yrs ago. Still holding strong. Attached Images
Reply:afrodesia,First, welcome to the Welding Web Forum.Second, stick around (no pun intended).  You will get friendly, good and helpful advice - sometimes you have to be patient.Third, my prescription for those members who desperately need it (you know who you are).  Feel free to prescribe to other members as you see fit
Reply:Welcome to the forum.All of the previous responses are great, especially graduating to MIG eventually.Here's how I repair floor pans.  If the repair is for something of mine, I remove all the rusted metal.  Then I cut Galvanized Sheet Metal to cover the entire cut out area, and overlap at least 1".  Then I apply a good coating of Under Coating to the area the patch is going to cover.  I POP RIVET the patch in place, then coat again on top and bottom with Under Coating.  I have had this repair method last for many years on some of my vehicles.On a "Restoration" project, it requires more finese.  It can be done with stick welding, but MIG is preferred.  Exact fit patches should be used and welded all around (this requires great skill and experience).  For beginners who insist on welding, follow the oversized patch method I use when I rivet.  Concentrate your arc on the "patch" material and allow the molten puddle to flow to the original material.  Once you get the hang of it, it's a piece of cake.  I use 1/6" 6013 when I do this method.Good Luck
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepRemember the speedo had a thumbwheel knob to adjust viewing angle?How's that possible?Well the "speedometer" was actually a reflection in a mirror. The knob tilted the mirror; the actual "backwards" speedometer face was below. You'd never guess looking at it. Strange car gimmicks, huh? I had a '60 coupe, but that's another story..
Reply:26 ga galv w/burn through tacks 90amps 3/32 E601324 ga crs 60 amps E6013A butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:Correction to last post "23 ga crs"  3/32 E6013Where the hell did that come from???Last edited by Magnetic Mechanic; 02-03-2009 at 01:42 PM.Reason: size missingA butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:Okay... Now we're talkin'!Now that would be a proper and  proud floor repair weld.Was that thin gauge to thin gauge butt weld?Lay the details out.Oh the off-topic speedometer design - That was most apparent as the design limits of the car, road, and speedometer, were reached; you may have never noticed it.