Arc Blow BLOWS

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Was working inside a horseshoe shaped bracket roughly 3"x3", and the welds turned out like birdsh#t, and the entire surface was covered by dingle ballsChecked it out in the bible, and other than wrapping 2000 feet of lead around the damn thing, I'm taking the next step, and switching to AC for the weld.Not bein' a DC guy, and recently discovering the beauty of DC, it's been a little bit of a letdown.  Never had this problem with ACSo yours truly gets to get the torch out tomorrow, cut it apart, and start over.  I'll be able to save the machined pieces, but the plate their mounted to is gonna be history.  Luckily only 9" worth of 3/8x3" flat.In a way, I'm glad that AC ain't dead yet  Still got some pretty good uses!!!"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Checked it out in the bible, and other than wrapping 2000 feet of lead around the damn thing, I'm taking the next step, and switching to AC for the weld.You lost me  You're welding a machined horseshoe to a 3x9 inch plateWhere are the pictures?Last edited by Magnetic Mechanic; 03-05-2009 at 12:14 AM.A butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:Out of batteries.And even if twasn't out of batteries, tweren't a Kodak moment"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by Magnetic MechanicChecked it out in the bible, and other than wrapping 2000 feet of lead around the damn thing, I'm taking the next step, and switching to AC for the weld.You lost meWhere are the pictures?
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI believe he is speaking from the book of Lincoln, I don't know the chapter and verse. It goes something like this, "... and thou shalt wrap thy leads around thy work when thou hast arc blow, or weld in AC..." or something like that. I'd love to see some picts also. never had the issue myself.
Reply:2000'?  I can get away with a foot or two rapped around the work. Something else you can do is to lay a bead and give it a nice sharp rap with your chipping hammer in different spots a few times.  I dont know the science behind it but its supposed to break up the magnetism.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:I knew I bought some batteries the other day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Finally found 'em in the bathroom.Pics in a few"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I only saw it once, a long time ago. And I can hardly arc weld. Maybe that's why I RAN away from the process.  FWIW: You build a lot more, cooler things than me. 9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammI knew I bought some batteries the other day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Finally found 'em in the bathroom.Pics in a few
Reply:Ok, graba beer, settle in, get some toilet paper to wipe the tears outta your eyes from laughingThis isn't the machined piece, it's one of the other brackets that I just torched a hole in because it's never gonna be visible when assembled.I really don't weld THIS BAD, but apparently I do Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:HOLY MACKERAL"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Were you using wet welding rods?A butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:I just had a terrible thought.  Back in a few"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Nope.I thought for a minute I might have used 7018AC rods on DC.  But not the case.  Right rods"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:the beads under the boogers dont look bad..and wouldnt 7018 ac rod work fine on dc?and lastly, i dont have to worry about mine stealing batteries for her vibrator.. its 10 hp and hardwired 208volt...variablespeed drive..
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadand lastly, i dont have to worry about mine stealing batteries for her vibrator.. its 10 hp and hardwired 208volt...variablespeed drive..
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadthe beads under the boogers dont look bad..and wouldnt 7018 ac rod work fine on dc?and lastly, i dont have to worry about mine stealing batteries for her vibrator.. its 10 hp and hardwired 208volt...variablespeed drive..
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in Denver
Reply:When i had ARC BLOW , first thing was change direction of weld . right to left , instead of left to right. Or change where i clamped my ground on . Of course , if you can switch to A C , for the root pass ,you got it knocked . When I first hired on at Kaiser steel, we were building Barges, and some of the pieces in the bilges were welded in with 7024 ,7/32" electrodes with A C @270 amps-a 5/16 fillet , one pass . Good old Airco  industrial  A C   machines . (built by Miller,I think)[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:Like Roy said, try changing your work clamp position so you're pulling the rod away from the clamp location as you weld and that should keep the arc force directed at the beginning of the weld, although, this works better on 2-plate joints because......you just found out that arc blow is worst when welding in inside corners.  Something about the juncture of 3 plates just makes the arc go every which way, sometimes regardless of the work clamp location, in which case......switching to AC is often the cure, as you found out.I agree with Weldbead though, the actual welds don't look bad, just the buckshot around them.Last edited by DesertRider33; 03-05-2009 at 05:32 AM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Never had the "wrap the lead around the work" thing to work too well.  One poster suggested changing direction of welding.  That has worked a time or two.  Also, "pushing the electrode" has worked for me a time or two.  Especially with heavily coated rods like the 7018.Pushing the rod is simply changing the angle of the rod from ahead of the weld puddle to back over the weld bead.Inside corners are always a bear.
Reply:Samm,That 7018 AC rod weld like a dream on DC.  Don't be afraid of it...Just don't forget to slightly lower the amps.  You will like it...Best kept secret is using a 7018AC rod on DC.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:You can fight arc blow with your ground clamp location as well.  Position it near the end of the weld and weld towards it, rather than away from it.  Multiple grounds helps as well.
Reply:As already stated, sometimes it's as simple as moving your ground clamp, sometimes not, and sometimes nothing does much good. Try running your first pass with 6010 or 6011, then switch to 7018. If you can get the first pass in then the magnetic field is reduced or in some cases eliminated.By the way, any rod that will run on AC will run on DC and usually with a smoother arc.
Reply:Thats some serious welding acne you got there farmer!Try this once and see what happens!If you have a really strong magnet laying around, one of the magnet welding holders do well, swipe the magnet along the path you plan on welding a few passes in the direction you plan on welding, this gets the electro magnetic field flowing in the right direction, and then put the ground clamp at the end of the run.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!What we have here is a case of arc blow.  It occurs when welding in corners or areas where there are attachments that create that same condition.  The magnetic field of a DC current will cause the arc to wander and the filler metals to spit and pop as it transfers, or attempts to transfer into the weld puddle.Your solution of switching to an AC electrode is the correct solution, as the constant on-off action of the ac current will not allow the magnetic field to develop.
Reply:Jay,I don't think anyone questions whether it was arc blow or not...But  there is more than one possible solution to stopping it including using AC.  AC may not be desirable for reasons of slag entrapment etc.  So the idea that has been presented here using AC is valid, but limited. Grounding is a critical issue if one is "stuck" using DC.  Not all machines have AC capability and it is nice to learn how to stop it if possible. My reasoning for years for not using DC was Blow.  But really, it was inexperience with DC and how to correctly use it.  Changing ground locations can go a long way to stopping it.  Corner applications can be tricky.  but I think the quest is how to "manage" rather than jump ship and try something else.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Set it on it's side and Try welding from the end of the flange inward.  Ala, from the edge of the plate to the middle.
Reply:Hey all..........Was a real interesting thing to happen.  Never saw it before.  Thought it might be an interesting thing to someone else who never saw it.I finally cut the plate out on the other bracket, and did it over with AC.  Pics tomorrow.Thanks for the replies, it was a real bitch to figure out what was goin' onDid some reading on it, and discovered there's "back blow", and "front blow".  A lot of you guys mentioned it when giving advice about moving the work clamp, or changing the direction of the weld.  ThanksAnybody out there new to this.............PLEASE SPEND THE FEW BUCKS IT TAKES TO GET THE "PROCEDURE HANDBOOK OF ARC WELDING" BY LINCOLN ELECTRIC.Every bit of advice, and discussion, in this thread is directly covered in the manual, and covered in depth.  All of the guys that had something to say were validated by the "BIBLE".  Good people, good advice, and good reading!!!!"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammOk, graba beer, settle in, get some toilet paper to wipe the tears outta your eyes from laughingThis isn't the machined piece, it's one of the other brackets that I just torched a hole in because it's never gonna be visible when assembled.I really don't weld THIS BAD, but apparently I do
Reply:In addition to all the things mentioned above, one other thing sometimes works and that is to tack a piece of junk something to the weldment and put your work clamp on it. Like a 2' long pce of angle with a couple of wraps of lead around it and the clamp on the end. just another weapon in the arsenal...
Reply:Originally Posted by TEKIn addition to all the things mentioned above, one other thing sometimes works and that is to tack a piece of junk something to the weldment and put your work clamp on it. Like a 2' long pce of angle with a couple of wraps of lead around it and the clamp on the end. just another weapon in the arsenal...
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammAnybody out there new to this.............PLEASE SPEND THE FEW BUCKS IT TAKES TO GET THE "PROCEDURE HANDBOOK OF ARC WELDING" BY LINCOLN ELECTRIC.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammI've never used the AC 7018 on DC, maybe I ought to do a test piece to see what it looks like.  I have  a feeling that the coating is so different that it might not be too good.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammMy world is crashing into a pile of scrap, and y'all are talkin' about high output sex toys
Reply:When you wrap the cord around the work, it can set up a magnetic field in the workpiece which will counteract the one caused by the current through the workpiece after it leaves the arc. Remember the right-hand rule? The field from the arc will be same in either case, but will reverse if the cable is wrapped right-hand vs left-hand, so if wrapping is possible without burning the cable, but doesn't help, try reversing the wrap direction. Usually, the closer the ground connection is to where the arc is, the less field is formed by the current; the best solution is when the ground is beneath the weld. In a three-way corner, try attaching a magnetic ground, or tack a piece, on the outside at the very corner.If that doesn't work, get out a  beer and rest a bit after dipping the first rod in the beer. It must of course dry naturally. Meanwhile, drink the beer. Now get a second beer, preferably a different kind. Again dip the rod and let it dry while you sip the beer; (the beer on the rod and what you are drinking must remain 'compatible'). Remember that in Fairy Tales, three is the magic number, but here it is the MINIMUM.  After a while, you will find that you are done. Maybe not with the welding, but you won't care by then....
Reply:thanks fer yer concerns..the business end came off a old concrete vibrator so its designed for wet conditions...
Reply:excuse me this is a great thread but weldbead my wife insist on knowing where you can get such a device and if i can run it off of my bobcat 225 for versatility  www.burdettenetworks.com
Reply:Of course, you could also do an AC demag using the wire leads as well.  Done quite a bit in the field to knock out residual magnetism from mag particle inspection.
Reply:kburd i built my wifes  over a period of several months of trial and error but failed to take progress fotos because we were afraid the kids would find em so im sorry i cannot post it under projects...i think the bobcat might run it, please let me know because we always wanted to run it off a generator when we went camping...if you look online under concrete vibrators there are gaspoweered models i am thinking of for the weekends in the woods...
Reply:Just take the washing machine with you and run that off the Bobcat, you can wash up some clothes while you're at it....MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:[QUOTE=weldbead;259977 pif you look online under concrete vibrators there are gaspoweered models i am thinking of for the weekends in the woods...:angel-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I will have to let the wife know about those vibrators made of concrete and the gas powered ones too!  #1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...094&in_merch=1Not made of, made for concrete.  The first time I saw one of these I said "Keep it locked up in the work truck, if the women get wind of this we are done for."
Reply:could be work there..a  mobile operation that went around doing sales and i bet there would be pleenty service work  as use increased...the mind reels...