How do I weld without it sticking to something ?

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The Thread title may be misleading, but I didn't know how to word it.I will explain what I want to do.A friend wants me to have some welded letters that spell 'Husky' (his bike), but these letters are not to be welded on to a sheet of metal, he just wants the letters in weld form that he can position on a piece of timber and glue them on with liquid nails.I thought because weld doesn't stick to copper, I would get a sheet of thick copper and draw a letter on it with chalk, then just simply weld over that chalk outline. Then when the weld has cooled I should just be able to pick up that letter and do another.I had a sheet of 1.5 mm copper and tried it but it spat and hissed at me and actually stuck to the copper.Then I thought I would try the same thing on brass, but I don't have any brass laying around. Before I go out and buy some brass, would this work ???  How thick will the brass/copper have to be ? Do I have to treat it in any way before welding ? or  Is there  a better approach to this problem ?I'm all ears ...........
Reply:dont use brass. that will really stick to your weld and cause nasty inclusions. what youre trying to do here is gonna be tough. the weld will stick to copper. especially since youre welding right on the copper. its best used when you are just trying to control burnthru or plug holes. my hunk is half inch thick 4"X8".only thing worse than an ugly woman is an ugly weld
Reply:Hmmmmmm... and I told my friend it would be easy... Damm
Reply:You could cheat.  cut and form the letters out of 1/4" square stock and then weld over the surface of the letters.
Reply:The best that I can figure for you is that you could weld the letters to a plate like 1/8th" or 3/16", then cut the letters out with a plasma cutter, and then he could embed the plate side into the wood, leaving just the weld above flush with the wood surface!#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Man, I wish I had your problem! I can't get my welds to stick to anything! I don't know how to solve your problem, but a few ideas just popped into my mind. I doubt they'd work, but it might be interesting. What are you welding? TIG/Stick/MIG?Maybe welding on aluminum foil? I don't mean kitchen foil, I mean the thick stuff you buy at home improvement warehouses...Flashing I think it's called. Dirt cheap, the idea being that it melts away as you lay down a steel bead. Of course, it would have to NOT melt away at the origin or you'd loose the circuit.Perhaps welding on wet, salty sand? I could see this being rather dangerous, but if you had an insulated box and filled it with sand and saltwater (conducts better), and bury the ground clamp, you could probably weld straight onto it. You'd need lots of saltwater to prevent it from drying out. Are you using stainless or mild steel? If mild, how is it not going to rust on the bike?Does it have to be steel? I wonder if running an aluminum bead on a steel plate wouldn't work much better, since with the low melting point of AL, you could run a low temperature and not get any penetration of the steel. All speculation, of course. I don't know anything about welding, but perhaps some of these are worth considering."To tell which polarity to use go to the bathroom and pour some water down the drain. If it runs clockwise use straight polarity. If it runs counter-clockwise use reverse polarity. Or if it just gurgles use alternating current." -RandomDave
Reply:Both good solutions if I had a plasma cutter.I am thinking of getting some very thin sheet metal and weld on to that, then using tin snips and angle grinder to cut away from the sheet ??
Reply:SkippiIt's to be done wit h a MIG. I like the idea of the thick alfoil, may give that a go ? Wet sand is interesting as well ?Yes it has to be steel.
Reply:You can buy 20-16ga 99.95% 6"x6" tungsten sheet on ebay.  The tungsten definitelywon't be melted by the molten steel, though it's not as good heat conductor as copper.You would have to spend $150-$300 depending on the thickness.If you go this route, make sure you get 99.95% tungsten; many alloys have a lot lower melting point.Not sure what do make of different people saying different things about the copper.First it won't melt when used as a backing bar, now it will "since you're weldingdirectly on it" but isn't that the definition of a backing bar--right under the weld?
Reply:Man, I think you boxed yourself into a corner"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:That tungsten is not an option at that price  *WOW*I am going to see my mate and see if he is dead set on the welded letters, if he wants that look I am thinking now of getting some small steel rod (about 4 mm) and just running a bead of weld all the way around it.
Reply:Eyspy,You might experiment with some hard-facing electrode;  some HF rod deposits with a cold crowned bead, without a lot of penetration.Good Luck
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepEyspy,You might experiment with some hard-facing electrode;  some HF rod deposits with a cold crowned bead, without a lot of penetration.Good Luck
Reply:Copper and cold mig I did this 20years ago I used 1/4" copper welded my ladies name in scrip and mounted in on a cheap blank walnut plaque. looked great.
Reply:The Fat Bastard plan sounds good; especially since he's done it.Hardfacing is a weld deposit applied to protect wearing surfaces from abrasion or impact.Since hardfacing is a sacrificial build-up, rather than a joining filler, most hardfacing electrode has properties of going on smooth with a heavy crowned deposit, and yet not a lot of penetration.Be warned - Some hardfacing just laughs at grinder discs that try to remove it.Good Luck
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardCopper and cold mig I did this 20years ago I used 1/4" copper welded my ladies name in scrip and mounted in on a cheap blank walnut plaque. looked great.
Reply:Originally Posted by SkippiiMan, I wish I had your problem! I can't get my welds to stick to anything! Perhaps welding on wet, salty sand? I could see this being rather dangerous, but if you had an insulated box and filled it with sand and saltwater (conducts better), and bury the ground clamp, you could probably weld straight onto it. You'd need lots of saltwater to prevent it from drying out.
Reply:Originally Posted by eyspyThe Thread title may be misleading, but I didn't know how to word it.I will explain what I want to do.A friend wants me to have some welded letters that spell 'Husky' (his bike), but these letters are not to be welded on to a sheet of metal, he just wants the letters in weld form that he can position on a piece of timber and glue them on with liquid nails.I thought because weld doesn't stick to copper, I would get a sheet of thick copper and draw a letter on it with chalk, then just simply weld over that chalk outline. Then when the weld has cooled I should just be able to pick up that letter and do another.I had a sheet of 1.5 mm copper and tried it but it spat and hissed at me and actually stuck to the copper.Then I thought I would try the same thing on brass, but I don't have any brass laying around. Before I go out and buy some brass, would this work ???  How thick will the brass/copper have to be ? Do I have to treat it in any way before welding ? or  Is there  a better approach to this problem ?I'm all ears ...........
Reply:This won't work.  Yes, the melting temperature of steel is ~2800F, and tungsten's melting temp is over 5000F.  But the heat produced by the arc is over 10,000F.  This will still melt your tungsten sheet, and make a big mess; after you spent a pile of cash.Best solution I've seen proposed so far is to weld the letters ontop of some steel sheet and then cut them out. Originally Posted by ericmYou can buy 20-16ga 99.95% 6"x6" tungsten sheet on ebay.  The tungsten definitelywon't be melted by the molten steel, though it's not as good heat conductor as copper.You would have to spend $150-$300 depending on the thickness.If you go this route, make sure you get 99.95% tungsten; many alloys have a lot lower melting point.Not sure what do make of different people saying different things about the copper.First it won't melt when used as a backing bar, now it will "since you're weldingdirectly on it" but isn't that the definition of a backing bar--right under the weld?
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_do. . .Best solution I've seen proposed so far is to weld the letters ontop of some steel sheet and then cut them out.
Reply:Weld onto a steel sheet and cut them out.  Plasma would probably be the quickest and easiest way (just trace around the weld bead with the plasma tip), but other cutting methods would work as well.If you want the 'rustic' look, you could also make the letters onto the steel sheet and then wait till everything is all cooled off and then go back with the MIG and  crank the amps waay up (compared to the sheel thickness) and pretty much use the arc itself to trace around the weld bead letters and melt/burn/blast right through the sheet.  Example, you weld the letters onto a piece of 16 gauge steel sheet (which is 1/16 inch thick, 0.0625 inch) and have the amps down low (maybe 30 amps or so) so you don't blow holes right through the sheet.  When done with the letters,  then crank up the amps to 100 or so and trace the arc right around the letters and you'll blow right through the sheet metal with that many amps.Interesting that FB did the same thing you want to do.  1/4 inch thick copper and low-amp MIG worked, eh?  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:I wonder if maybe using some anti stick splatter spray on the copper would help!Maybe not.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Bend the letters out of 1/8 bare filler rod then place them on a fire brick and weld over it with mig to give the effect?Lincoln PT185 TIGLincoln 175 MIGLincoln 240 amp AC StickLind Needle Arc plasma welderPlasma cutter, soon???
Reply:Grab a tube of JB weld.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doThis won't work.  Yes, the melting temperature of steel is ~2800F, and tungsten's melting temp is over 5000F.  But the heat produced by the arc is over 10,000F.  This will still melt your tungsten sheet, and make a big mess; after you spent a pile of cash.Originally Posted by Broccoli1Grab a tube of JB weld.
Reply:Today I played around for a couple of minutes with a few ideas.It doesn't seem too promising.Attachment 31077Attachment 31078Last edited by denrep; 08-24-2009 at 10:06 AM.
Reply:I would just weld up the Husky on a piece of rectangle sheet as mentioned and show him.The entire Piece mounted on the  wood could look good.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Well I have taken all the ideas on board and will tackle it armed with this advice. Once I have made the piece in question I will post up some pics. May be a few months though as my wife is days away from giving birth to our third child and my projects will have to take a back seat for a while.
Reply:Originally Posted by artworksmetalSkippii, that is a really bizarre, creative idea. I like it.How about this: Start with Skippii's sandbox. Ground it with a 8' ground rod. Draw the letters with iron filings. Attach a spool of .023 MIG wire to the box. Attach the end of the wire to a kite. Fly the kite in a thunderstorm, then run as fast as you can!
Reply:Temperature AT the arc is around 12,000 degrees F.  ANYTHING you attempt to "lay a bead" on is going to react (could be violent) to that temp.  Protect yourself while doing something like this.  Could result in some nasty burns.  If you are a hobby welder, I don't even recommend you attempt this.  Just my two cents worth.