Your advise would be greatly appreciated

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First let me apologize if I am doing anything wrong.  I don't always know all of the rules but just let me know and I learn quickly.  I am 47 years old and have basic welding skills that I learned working in a sign fabrication shop.  I am considering taking a full entry to graduate program that is offered locally.  The cost is 10,000.00.  I have a few questions and could use some guidance from someone who is out there feeding a family.  Nothing against single guys but as you know raising a family requires more cash.  Anyway, what level must one attain to make decent money?  Am I too old? Are there still guys willing to take on apprenticeships?  My wife and I would both like to take the course and create a mobile on location welding service.  We live in South Central PA.This is the link to the center offering the program.  Your comments are welcome but please be serious.  I am trying to make a good career change.http://www.advskills.org/prwt.html  Would you suggest pursuing this or running  for the hills?  Any advice will be taken in.  I have learned to listen to the wise.  Thank you,Kyle BettsYork PA
Reply:A 10,000 dollar graduate program?What is it we are talking about?As far as your age you WILL be discriminated against because of your age.it depends on the job. BUT if you are going to work for yourself then youdo not have to worry. Young guys think a 40 year old is very old.If you are going to have a mobile business it will take at least $10,000 for a truck and welding machine. You will be competing against all the young guys and with a generator type welder you would only be doing heavy iron.You could specialize in things other businesses are not interested in,like fixing broken railings (steel) so all you would need is a portable wire feed welder, grinder ,torch and portable welding screen.Or you could get good at scratch start TIG and go on location and make repairs to stainless kitchen equipment.I would find a need and then try to specialize.The $10,000 dollar school? I am not so sure.Is it the HOBART school???I would take a coarse at a junior college and get the certifications you need.The east coast is much more organized that the west coast as far as unions and appreticeships.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:I would say go for it.  However, there are person(s?) on this board that would call you a looser and a ne'er do well.  But I would agree with Don, go to a local tech school.  Just as in transportation,  the point of education is to get you from point A to point B.  How much you pay for it doesn't mean that it will be any better.  See this thread. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=28067Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:[QUOTE=The east coast is much more organized that the west coast as far as unions and appreticeships.[/QUOTE]I dont know about some trades, but as far as Pipefitters/Steamfitters go, thats not very acurate. Here in Washington, we have one of the strongest trade contracts around compared to many local contracts back east. Specifically the southern states where the scale is in the high teens to low twenties.I made the career change in my early thirties and at 47 it will be tough but not too uncommon. Before spending 10k on a program, I would look into an apprenticeship program. Or if you have skills that a valuable to one of the trades you could organize in and buy your book. My concern about being 47 and spending 10k on a program, then you will be about 50 before you start to make decent money at it. It seems to me, your ten grand would be better spent investing in your business from the get go. You do say you have acquired skills. Being in the sign industry, I would assume you may have some creativity.I dont know about doing what others wont do, as mentioned in the post above. Its been my experience that those other businesses wont do something thats not profitable. But if you were to do what they dont do, and find a way to make that profitable for you, then you would find a niche.Hope I was helpful in some way.Bill
Reply:You are NEVER too old to get schooled.  (And I mean that in everyway it can be taken.)The welding workforce is expected to have a shortfall.  Many welders work into their 70's.  If you are careful with your health, you may just live long enough to retire!Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by Kyle BettsFirst let me apologize if I am doing anything wrong.  I don't always know all of the rules but just let me know and I learn quickly.  I am 47 years old and have basic welding skills that I learned working in a sign fabrication shop.  I am considering taking a full entry to graduate program that is offered locally.  The cost is 10,000.00.  I have a few questions and could use some guidance from someone who is out there feeding a family.  Nothing against single guys but as you know raising a family requires more cash.  Anyway, what level must one attain to make decent money?  Am I too old? Are there still guys willing to take on apprenticeships?  My wife and I would both like to take the course and create a mobile on location welding service.  We live in South Central PA.This is the link to the center offering the program.  Your comments are welcome but please be serious.  I am trying to make a good career change.http://www.advskills.org/prwt.html  Would you suggest pursuing this or running  for the hills?  Any advice will be taken in.  I have learned to listen to the wise.  Thank you,Kyle BettsYork PA
Reply:I just have to say. I THINK THAT PRICE FOR THE SCHOOLING IS A RIP OFF!  That is $14.59per hour to pay a teacher.  How many other students in the class.  Look into comunity college.  This place looks like a scam like all the computer tech schools in the early 2000's promising to make you a rich network engineer making $200,000 for a small fortune.  After you sign all the papers and are reved up to start a new career path you find out you are paying someone alot of money to you aloud to you from an overpriced book as you follow along.  RIP OFF!The outline of these courses is the same as a comunity college that only cost $30 per credit.  Some of the crap outlined is like high school metal shop.  Quote:"The program also reviews Flux-Cored and MIG procedures."Don't do it.Welding is a good career but not a get rich quick one.  You will have to pay your dues to learn the trade at a lower pay and slowly build up your knowledge and pay.  I have seen alot of kids come out of school with a certification in hand and think they earned a high paying job.  Experience is what matters. Don't get robbed of your money.  Get the experience you need and use that to get the licenses/certifications you need.
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldI would say go for it.  However, there are person(s?) on this board that would call you a looser and a ne'er do well.  But I would agree with Don, go to a local tech school.  Just as in transportation,  the point of education is to get you from point A to point B.  How much you pay for it doesn't mean that it will be any better.  See this thread. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=28067
Reply:FB,I wasn't commenting negatively about our new member.  I was giving  a heads up about SOME one's sentiment and preparing him in case it happened.    Just click the link and read what happened.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:You are never to old to continue your education. Will it help you get a job? Possibly but at your age you WILL be discriminated against. Probably not as much in welding as in other fields. Being able to pass the tests goes a long way and how bad they need employees  determines if you get the job, education or not.In other fields they won't openly discriminate against you because to do so is illegal. They will take your application and ignore it which is perfectly legal. Laws against age discrimination are just another goverment farce to make you feel good. There is no way to enforce it.I would shop around for a cheaper alternative. Just my two cents.
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldFB,I wasn't commenting negatively about our new member.  I was giving  a heads up about SOME one's sentiment and preparing him in case it happened.    Just click the link and read what happened.
Reply:FB,I understand your position.  But in fairness,  I wasn't trying to dredge up the past, but trying to prevent a new member from being disenfranchised.  I hope you understand.You are right when you say that people judge and give advice based off their own fears.  I would call it insecurities, but I think the sentiment is the same.  Kyle,The issues that you have to resolve is not your age, but rather your determination.  "Paying" dues is bunk.  You are old enough to have paid plenty of dues.  If you are in a new area or field, you have plenty of "transfer" credit to substitute for "paying dues".    Sure being a guy starting fresh in a new field at your age will give you a little good natured ribbing, but as you are seasoned already in the "walk" of life,  you have plenty to bring to the table even if the "skills" are a little green.  I bet you FB is right:  A semester and you will pass up those 20 year olds struggling still on 1G, because you have "settled" down and are focused at the task at hand instead of the "birds" in the bush.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:At my age, I'll be doing what I do for the rest of my life.  I'm tied into it.It would be pretty hard to change careers at this point.  Too many young people out of work, and looking for jobs.  If I weren't self employed, and doggone lucky to be so, I'd probably be flippin' burgers IF THEY WOULD HAVE ME.These are tough times, and to drop a substantial wad on a program which promises much, but maybe doesn't deliver, is not such a good idea.  There's cheaper ways to aquire the same training."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Hi,Being a human we can support our friend in needy time and try to advice them of better life or try to do things in their life for making a good and responsible person of world.Motorola
Reply:Kyle      If thats what you and your wife really want and your healthy and have a means of support while your training i say go for it and good luck.Having a wife that,s also a welder is great too because you don,t have to deal with explaining why you have to work 14 hour days  seven days a week to get your business off the ground.But if your committed and don,t end up being committed working for yourself  is one of life,s most rewarding endeavors.                         Felon                  (The outline of these courses is the same as a community college that only cost $30 per credit)I wish we had cc that cheap up here in Canada.my local community college wants 7 g,s for their 2 year welding program and then you need 6000 hours working  in the  welding apprenticeship program to get your journeyman,s papers.
Reply:Welding as a second career?  I am thinking along those same lines. I appreciate the value of education plus the value of real world experience.  You (and I) need both to succeed in welding.   I took a class at Lincoln welding last summer, and was impressed with what they have to offer.  Yes, most (but not all) of the students were young, but they were also very helpful.   I took a one week Mig class, and realized I should at least take the 6 week basic stick welding class.  That is where "everything" is taught - puddle control, welding positions, quality of your weld, etc.  Check it out.  The downside, is you will have to find a room there, but some of the students stayed at peoples houses that take in Lincoln students - they will send a list.  The teachers there get calls to place their good students into real jobs.  They discussed some of them when I was there, most were on the road jobs, but the pay was great.  Do it for a year?   Oh, does the York school do any job placements?   I would take the Lincoln class for 6 weeks for the basics, then get into an apprentice job.  Once you get the real world experience, you may be better equipped to define your business plan.  Check out the links here.   http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowl...ng/weldschool/
Reply:My Betts,I have worked as a pipe welder in the petro-chem industry for 10 years and I would like to offer my 2 cents. I think that learning a new craft is great no matter how old you are. One of the men that taught me to weld was 77 years old at the time and he could weld circles around the younger welders. He had been in it long enough to learn the shortcuts and when they were applicable. I am thankful for his help in giving me a career. As far as welding certificates go, I am certified to weld carbon steel pipe, stainless steel pipe, Inconel pipe, Hastolloy pipe, Chrome (1&1/4 2&1/4 and 9%). I have papers to show that I can make x-ray welds in the SMAW and GTAW proccedures. With all that behind me I have to test on every new job I go too. Those papers don't do a thing for me but take up space in the filing cabinet. I would not get too hung up on the papers. You can more than likely gain the same knowlege from a trade school at an alot more resonable price. I hate to see you spend money that you dont have too. Welding is a wonderful career and it has feed my family for 10 years. You asked about what you can make as a entry level welder. I'm not sure about up where your from but down here if you pass the test then you make the same as any welder in the craft. I think single hand welders down here are making between 20 to 30 an hour depending on the contractor. But work is kinda scarce down here to. Just something to chew on. Hope this helps.Last edited by argoncowboy; 04-12-2009 at 08:13 PM.My first love was a wicked twisted road.......
Reply:$10,000.00 ????? Wow.I think several others already  said it so I jump on the bandwagon as well.  I wouldn't spend that much! Try your local community college! Good thing with the local college is your instructor will most likely be a local welder such as a welding shop owner. Instructor's that are shop owner's usually do a much better job of teaching! Plus they have a feeling for what the local area needs are.That school may also have an apprenticeship program which will get you some actual shop experience as well as possibility getting your foot in the door of a shop.If the school doesn't have an apprenticeship program ask the instructor if he is a shop owner and might be willing to take on an apprentice or even welders helper. This shows your initiative to your instructor.And practice whenever you can. Break the welds you did figure out why they broke then practice till they will not break.Good LuckCo-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.