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I have a miller dynasty sd 200. http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/Dynasty_guide.pdfI specifically bought this welder because I've read that it is great with aluminum, but I am having a hell of a time getting it to weld anything aluminum.I have both 4043 and 5356 filler rod and I've tried all sorts of settings on the welder. It's definitely on ac and I've adjusted balance and frequency from one end of the spectrum to the other, trying to see if there are any difference. I'm trying to weld intercooler piping, which is 6061 aluminum, I've also tried just a flat bar from Home Depot, the results are the same.About my welding experience: I've used a larger (commercial) miller welder and been able to weld aluminum just fine. My welds were ugly and I probably only have about 10 hours total on that welder, but I was able to weld with it and have functional results.I believe these are two advantages of my welder, over a conventional tigExtended AC Balance (30-99%) controls the amount of oxide cleaning (amperage time in EN) which is essential for high quality welds on aluminum.AC frequency (20-250 hz) controls the width of the arc cone and the force of the arc.If I've read correctly, if you set the AC Balance in the 30% to 50% the arc is wider and from 51% to 99% the arc is more narrowFor AC Frequency, if you set it to 60 cycles per second the bead is wider and at 120 cycles the bead is narrower.Here are the way the welds are turning out, and that's if I can get it to puddle and the filler rod not to run from the flame
Reply:Did you clean the area with a SS Brush?Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Are you cleaning the hard oxide layer off the surface of the aluminum that you are trying to weld ? Also , if the aluminum has an anodized surface , that should be removed as well . You can weld "through" the anodized coating , but , it's more difficult .Miller MM252 with Q300Hypertherm PM1000Everlast Powertig 200DXMiller Syncrowave 200
Reply:Some machine settings and material thickness would be helpfull and tugsten type.The second pic looks as if not hot enough or having trouble melting through a heavy oxide layer. Could be wrong.
Reply:What's your shield gas? should be argon...Mike
Reply:you gotta turn that heat up and dont start putting rod in the mix until you have a good puddle it looks like you were too cold in the second pics and maybe started feeding rod rightawayComplete Fabrication Shop specializing in pipe fabrication. Also offering heavy steel fabrication and sheet metal work.
Reply:Looks like gas problem, what does tung look like?Peter
Reply:I have argon gas, filled by airgasThe tungsten is the green typeI did not start cleaning it with a stainless steel brush until after I wrote the first post, that did help. I think I'm going to get some acetone as well and use that.It still isn't taking like it should, actually the welds are hideous and I've used a TON of rod and gas tonight screwing with this. I've decided not to use the 5356, as that won't meld at all, I have be using the 4043 ... should I use something else with this 6061 piping?(thanks for the replies everyone)
Reply:You should not use green with an inverter machine.
Reply:I use gold lanth tugsten for everything
Reply:I have orange too, will that work?Do you think that would be causing the crappy welds or the filler rod to "run" away? Originally Posted by LarryOYou should not use green with an inverter machine.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Did you clean the area with a SS Brush?
Reply:Edit: While I was typing, LarryO, nailed it. Inverters do not like pure (green) tungsten. I stand by my: 1/16" filler sucks.Last edited by Craig in Denver; 04-25-2009 at 12:46 AM.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Looks more like a gas problem, maybe sucking air into the torch. If you have a flex head torch they can "crack" and create a venturi effect, Check whole gas system and consumables
Reply:Originally Posted by 2uzgteI have orange too, will that work?Do you think that would be causing the crappy welds or the filler rod to "run" away?
Reply:I would bet you're running a type of uni-mix shield gas. For alum. use pure argon and for thick alum, hel....No other will work.Miller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180
Reply:Originally Posted by LarryOYou should not use green with an inverter machine.
Reply:Originally Posted by waginI would bet you're running a type of uni-mix shield gas. For alum. use pure argon and for thick alum, hel....No other will work.
Reply:From here, it looks like a shielding gas problem. No puddle and not much cleaning. It will weld easier if you clean it firstTry this. Set cleaning at 50%, set Hz at 60 so you are using a machine just like the old one you used. This will omit your doubt of settings. Weld forehand (torch pointed a little towards the finish line) Try 25 cfh of pure argon and turn the amps all the way up so you can let your foot do the talking. Don't be shy with the amps to start the puddle. No pulse.I don't use green tungsten. It will weld, but others work better.Once you can get a bead, then mess with the settings. What you said about the cleaning (wave balance) and Hz are true. Please try again and post more pictures.I clean aluminum before welding it, but don't use a grinding wheel for steel, they are made of aluminum oxide and that is what I don't want in the weld.Once you get it, it will flow like butter.David Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I am using 1/8" filler rod, I will try the torch angle thing and try the orange tungsten and report back Originally Posted by Craig in DenverEdit: While I was typing, LarryO, nailed it. Inverters do not like pure (green) tungsten. I stand by my: 1/16" filler sucks.
Reply:You should be cleaning the oxide layer off the surface of the aluminum to be welded by using a SS brush . The oxide layer is actually harder than the aluminum that it is sitting on .If it is not removed , so much heat will be required to melt the oxide layer that the "core" of the aluminum will melt first , and the spot where the arc is will simply collapse , creating a hole without a puddle ever forming correctly . Although the arc does have some ability to strip the oxide layer off , this alone is not the correct way to weld aluminum . Do yourself a huge favor and brush the parts first . Things will be so much better and easier afterwards . Inverter machines use either lanthanated or cereated tungston on AC. Not pure( green ) .I prefer lanthanated by a long shot .Miller MM252 with Q300Hypertherm PM1000Everlast Powertig 200DXMiller Syncrowave 200
Reply:I does look like a gas/shiedling issue..That being said, we use Airgas to refill all of our bottles and in the last 6 months I have had 2 bottles of supposed Argon, but it would not weld for crap, puddle would continually run away from the torch/heat zone... Point left and it goes right, point up it goes down.. ( you get the picture..) The first sign I noticed something was up besides the obvious, was that the regulator would slightly pulsate when the pedal was pushed... had 3 other welders try to weld and everyone had the same or worse results than I did. Switched out the bottle and we were good to go.. Not sure what was in the bottles but the were labeled Argon Compressed...Switch bottles and change tungsten. .and maybe a little better cleaning and post some results..
Reply:Ok, I got 2 bottles from airgas at the same time, and both of them have had aluminum welds like this. I guess I'll go get one filled that is empty now and see if things are any different.I tried cleaning with the stainless brush and I put the orange tungsten I had in, and went completely perpendicular to the pipe seem, still the same crappy results with the filler rod balling up and not wanting to meld into the aluminum and the aluminum pipe not puddling well.I will say this though, I can weld steel and stainless very well, puddles perfectly in my opinion. Could it still be the argon if stainless is welding well?
Reply:You sure your machine is set on AC? I know its a stupid question but that looks alot like an attempt at welding aluminum with DC.Also, that tube is definatly aluminum? The color and the way the scratches look just like stainless tubing.Make sure you clean it with a wire brush first, I dont care what anyone says but if it has a shiny finish or there is visible dirt it will weld much better if cleaned. If its just an internet rumor, then what is it doing in a Lincoln book copyright 1954? Pure aluminum melts at 1200F, aluminum alloys around 900F. Aluminum oxide melts at 3600F, its not hard to see there will be a problem there.You can try red tungsten also but orange works great on the miller inverters. Something about the pure tungsten wants to ball which is what makes it a poor choice on inverters.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88Make sure you clean it with a wire brush first, I dont care what anyone says but if it has a shiny finish or there is visible dirt it will weld much better if cleaned. If its just an internet rumor, then what is it doing in a Lincoln book copyright 1954? Pure aluminum melts at 1200F, aluminum alloys around 900F. Aluminum oxide melts at 3600F, its not hard to see there will be a problem there.Hi,It's definitely set on a/c and the tubing is definitely aluminum I'm wondering if the gas would make stainless weld good, and not aluminum? Originally Posted by sn0border88You sure your machine is set on AC? I know its a stupid question but that looks alot like an attempt at welding aluminum with DC.Also, that tube is definatly aluminum? The color and the way the scratches look just like stainless tubing.Make sure you clean it with a wire brush first, I dont care what anyone says but if it has a shiny finish or there is visible dirt it will weld much better if cleaned. If its just an internet rumor, then what is it doing in a Lincoln book copyright 1954? Pure aluminum melts at 1200F, aluminum alloys around 900F. Aluminum oxide melts at 3600F, its not hard to see there will be a problem there.You can try red tungsten also but orange works great on the miller inverters. Something about the pure tungsten wants to ball which is what makes it a poor choice on inverters.
Reply:Its usually something simple...you did not say if you were running electrode positive or negative...that could be it..."Good Enough Never Is"MIller AC/DC ThunderboltHobart HH180, 125EZRiland Cut 40 Plasma oxy/act outfitTons of "stuff", all treasures to me!
Reply:Cleaning Cleanliness of both the weld joint area and the filler metal is an important consideration when welding with the Gas Tungsten Arc Welding process. Oil, grease, shop dirt, paint, marking crayon, and rust or corrosion deposits all must be removed from the joint edges and metal surfaces to a distance beyond the heat affected zone. Their presence during welding may lead to arc instability and contaminated welds. If a weld is made with any of these contaminants present, the result could be a weld bead with pores, cracks, or inclusions. Cleaning may be accomplished by mechanical means, by the use of vapor or liquid cleaners, or by a combination of these. Note bright area where oxides have been removed through cleaning action of the arc. This cleaning action should not be relied upon to do all the cleaning. Mechanical or chemical cleaning methods should be employed to remove heavy oxide, paint, grease, and oil, or any other materials that will hinder proper fusion. Mechanical cleaning may be done with abrasive wheels, wire brushes, or other methods. Special abrasive wheels are available for aluminum, and stainless steel wire brushes are recommended.Miller Tig Handbook Copyright 2005but if you wanna get it from the internets click here:http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/TIGhandbook/Here is a parameter chart:http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...Book_Chpt6.pdfEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Now Ed he has been welding since 1993 and in school since January 2009. The man know what he is talking about. I mean for cripes sales he has almost 5 months of formal training. You Ed are a hack with your books printed by some fly by night company's (Miller?) and (Lincoln) who you going to believe this well educated individual with years of working for NASA???? oh he said he would not weld it for NASA that way???Just way is it that NASA warrants special attention and my widgets don't? If my widgets welds fails that leaves me with out my widget and I like my widgets better when their welds don't fail. Yes Denver a weld can be made on aluminum that has some surface contamination, is that the kind of surface that is going to give the new hands the best potential at making acceptable welds? NO it is not. Your advise in this instance is counterproductive and you should back down now before you loose any more respect. Up to this post you have been a reasonable poster and usually vary helpful but here you are wrong, and wrong with out question. That's all just my thoughts and opinion.
Reply:Post #1 last pic you can SEE the oxide still on top of the attempted puddle. There is no cleaning action by the weldor or the torch.I even clean my filler rod. If it has a little contamination, I can see it go into the puddle when I dip the rod.Obvously you can weld over crap and Craig in Denver proved it. I don't do that with steel or aluminum.It sure goes smoother for me if its clean.David Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Ed:My apologies. There are a dozen ways I could have made my point without calling out your post. FB:My point was "You can weld alum without it being polished and sterile". You're allowed an opinion, so am I. I agree that the new hands have enough to learn without trying to weld over rust. My books and some of the post-its where I learned something. Attached Images9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:As I've said concerning removing the oxide layer from aluminum before you weld , here is a direct quote from Miller's own book on GTAW . " This cleaning action ( the arc ) should NOT be relied upon to do all the cleaning . Mechanical or chemical methods should be employed to remove heavy oxides or any other materials that will hinder proper fusion" .Can you get away without removing the oxide layer ? Yes , sometimes . But it still does not make it the correct way to weld and it certainly does not make it any easier . Quite the opposite I'm afraid .Miller MM252 with Q300Hypertherm PM1000Everlast Powertig 200DXMiller Syncrowave 200
Reply:me thinks u need to turn up the amps.on the pipe things look coldid try 150A or more. it might still take a little while to get the pool going, depending on how long the pipe is. then you can pedal off and keep it goingLet us know what happens.pics, pics, and more pics.G
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverEd:My apologies. There are a dozen ways I could have made my point without calling out your post. FB:My point was "You can weld alum without it being polished and sterile". You're allowed an opinion, so am I. I agree that the new hands have enough to learn without trying to weld over rust. My books and some of the post-its where I learned something.
Reply:Set up the machine according to the guidlines in the manual for ALuse the Chart from the Tig Hand Book for Tungsten size, amps etcClean the Aloominum of the Oxide Might as well start with a clean piece of AL.Check for gas leaks.If it stills welds the same try a nutter bottle of ArgonGood luck.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88Ok, find one spot in those books where it says its ok to weld aluminum without cleaning it.Oh, and welders in 1954 still had AC cleaning action. It doesnt matter if its a transformer, squarewave or inverter all AC has a cleaning portion (+) of the wave. It might not of been adjustable, but it was there.
Reply:More pics. Attached Images9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:More pics.....or not. Sorry, internet overloaded.Last edited by Craig in Denver; 04-27-2009 at 12:19 AM.
Reply:Every one of them is contaminated....For what it's worth, I don't bother cleaning new material other than wiping it with windex to remove any oil. Now if I am building a gas tank or something similar in nature, I clean the **** out of the material.Welding uncleaned material results in shorter tungsten life because when the oxides pop off the surface do to the AC action, they go straight for the tungsten.
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverI showed my books; but I don't need them to prove what's possible. The following welds were made without the 'almighty cleaning'.
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88You should of quit while you were ahead,, it doesnt matter if its possible. Hell I could MIG something together using no shielding gas because its possible, but that doesnt mean its the way things should be done. The reason you wont even try to find something to back your statements up in your precious books is because none of them will say its ok to weld without cleaning. Prove me wrong.And I wont go around bragging about any of those welds, they all look dirty and certainly not something I would be proud of. In more than a few you can see big black spots in the middle of the weld that are the oxides you didnt remove or other dirt and grease that didnt burn off.
Reply:Note:You weld METAL, not oxides. Oxides of steel are called rust, oxides of aluminum are called aluminum oxides or anodizing.And having things other than clean metal in the weld zone can lead to all sorts of weld contamination or weld quality issues. Like porosity or hydrogen embrittlement or just general 'crap in the weld' or etc, etc.Some welding processes can -tolerate- a limited amount of non-metal. Some materials are very sensitive to crap in the welds.Also note that "tolerate" does NOT mean to put as much paint and grease and oil and rust into the weld zone as you can and then try to get a quality weld.Clean is better. Clean and shiny metal is even better.GTAW can tolerate the LEAST amount of non-metal in the weld zone. SMAW on mild steel can sometimes tolerate more non-metal in the weld zone because of the heavy flux.Best practice is to remove as MUCH crud (paint, oil, grease, marker, coffee, etc) as possible, usually by using appropriate solvent(s) like acetone or tri-chlor, and then remove the oxides until you get to clean shiny metal. Then you may have to solvent clean again to remove dust or crud.NOTE: Solvents may be flammable, dangerous, and may be even more dangerous (FATAL!) if a welding arc (the UV rays mostly, but the heat plays a factor as well) degrades or changes the chemical. Be safe! Use solvents properly and make sure they are dried and no vapors are around before arc welding! The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:I've been talking about welding clean, oxidized alum. My point of reference has been the guys using the button to weld anodized alum boat towers. It seems to work for them.I've dug myself deep enough. Please help the OP.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverI've been talking about welding clean, oxidized alum. My point of reference has been the guys using the button to weld anodized alum boat towers. It seems to work for them.I've dug myself deep enough. Please help the OP.
Reply:x2I'm going to buy some acetone and aluminum bar at Home Depot and try again, I scrubbed the crap out of hte last piece with my stainless brush, but this will be my last attempt before asking Airgas about the gas in the canister. Me being ok (at best) with welding aluminum, I want to have every variable on my side that I can, and if that means cleaning it a lot, I'll do so ... I wish my buddy still has his weld setup so I could go over there and compare, this is driving me nuts!Anybody in MD (that is good with tigging aluminum) want to come by and test out my getup? I'll provide beer. Originally Posted by Craig in DenverPlease help the OP.
Reply:how far are you from waldorf, I have a buddy down there who could do it.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Maybe its time to go back to basics, I would tig on and off at work for the longest time before I was happy. From the pics and the way you described the filler running away from the torch it makes it seem like you might be pointing the filler too much at the rod, or u are trying to drip the metal intothe puddle instead of dabbing it. I did the same thing for the first few times i tried to tig.The angle between your filler rod and the torch should be 90 degres with the torch aimed at the filler at a 5 to 15 degree angle in the direction of travel. hold the torch in a spot and create a puddle, make it the size you want before u dab the filler into the puddle. Note, you Dab the filler into the puddle, not drip it off, dab it in. Then move the torch ahead and dab it when u got it nice and melted pool to dab the filler into again. Welding, Its a process. Please post some updated pics. I know how what its like trying to learn and it gets discouraging. I really hope I could help.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:The puddle should be good and shiny before dipping the filler in the front of the puddle.DavidReal world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:A_DAB_will_Do.....but....Too much is BAD. It's an inside joke, but seems somehow relevant anyway.Sorry, couldn't resist interjecting some levity into this thread. There's been a lot of verbal wrangling in the earlier posts. Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:I'm not close to Waldorf, but thanks for offering! Originally Posted by sn0border88how far are you from waldorf, I have a buddy down there who could do it. |
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发表于 2021-9-1 00:45:55