I think my boss is stealing from me

admin

Hi everybody!  I finally landed a welding job and am stoked about it.  I make less money than I did sitting in front of a computer all day,  but its worth it.  but now I feel that my boss is stealing  my  overtime hours and minutes. let me give you my schedule first.  I work an alternative work week. 7:30am to 5:00pm. It consist of 5days, 9hrs and then 4days, 9hrs.  haveing every other Friday off.  I also live in California so the ot laws may be different that  other states.  my boss only pays after 40 so last month we built a cell phone tower that took us in till 2am to finish. the following day I showed up at noon.  cause there was no way I could make it back in the morning. that was like 18 hours and there was not one bit of double time on my check.my interpretation of the labor laws say that he owes me.  Am I right?plus when we get back to the shop a little late and unload the truck,  we will have 20 min of OT but do not get paid for that either.  Im just fustrated.  ive tried to talk to them about it but it seem that they want me to forget about it.
Reply:I drove local for years.  Worked on the clockOT was never by the day.  It was by the week over 40 total hours, and you got OT.If your 18 hour day was in addition to the regular hours (10 hours over), it should be OT if the weeks total was 58 hours.7:30-5:00............yeah it's 9 1/2 hours, but ya gotta figure in the lunch hour.  I never got paid to munch burgers.If you're getting a little bit shortchanged it kinda sucks, but the alternative is unemployment.  Make your bones at this job, then move onto something better when you have the experience.Bless your lucky stars................you could be farming, and working for around 3 bucks an hour when all's told."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:sure you're not salaried? when i worked as an EE at a block plant, i was salaried, but required to be on-call. then again, i made more that what i technically should have, (breaking it down to dollar-an-hour rates..) so i didn't say anything.. haha.. but maybe theres something going on he's not saying.. i understand the frustration though! of course, be thankful you're gainfully employed either way! ( i'm sure you are.. )http://kawispeed.com/ -moderator and tech deluxewww.myspace.com/trickortrack -cuz i have no life
Reply:Farmersamm nailed it.  Overtime is only after 40 hours in CAVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Dualie-I think its a little more convoluted than that. This is California ya know!Its been years but from my recollection, unless the shop has a flex time agreement in place anything over 8 hrs per day AND 40 hours per week, in a five day work week is overtime. If the shop is running on flex time I think its 10 and 40 in 4. Anything over 4 hours OT (that number could be 2 hrs) in a day, it becomes double-time. A call to the EDD office will answer all your questions. Just don't ask them to intervene. They don't have the man power to enforce the rules unless its a huge factory with possible large fine potential.
Reply:I got the LAW in my office tomorrow. i will look it up.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:"You could be farming, and be working for around 3 bucks an hour when it's all told."Ain't that the truth and it could be even less, depending on what the weather and the bugs and disease do to you.
Reply:Alot of the contractors that work for me don't pay the guys for the little time spent before and and after a shift. This time is looked at as getting ready and putting stuff away. To split hairs yes this is work and should be paid. In the big picture though 8hrs of productive work paid and a little giveme time makes you and your whole crew more cost effective on paper. That can have a long term pay off of getting you choice jobs and keep you working over others during slow times. Now this could and is abused by many employers. It is also done fairly by many and done right a little give and take over the years will tend balance out in your favor.As for the 18 hour shift, I would ask him. Most guys I know keep there own time for comparison and don't hesitate to ask if there is a gross error.Last edited by Mundy; 11-24-2009 at 08:39 AM.Regards,Mundy
Reply:We never get paid to load/unload the trucks(which includes wipeing the leads with diesel once a week. We do get time and a half for anything over 40 hours. My boss is a tight wad anyway, we alaways have to double check our stubs. He does not want to pay for anything extra but gives us lunch and giftcards alot. I guess it all works out. I am in Virginia.
Reply:Unfortunately this is what happens in the non-union sector. Ot is based on weekly 35-40 hrs,a typical union work week is 35 hrs but that is going to change soon. One day equals 7hrs anything past 7 hrs is ot at the rate of time and a half. A new stunt they were trying to pull is comp time which is mandatory overtime that is paid back as time credit,if you wourk 8 hrs ot it is paid as time off at their discretion.I.B.E.W Electrician and Damn Proud of It !!!! .Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit http://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/
Reply:just another slant on the hours etc.                                                         When i was working we went onto a "banked time " system, which meant our weekly hrs X number of weeks in the year(minus hols bank holidays lieu days etc) this worked out at 1633hrs per year to be worked, so 1633hrs X hourly rate plus extra payments for the number of average night shifts,overtime hours, call-outs that we may be expected to work, this led to a gross figure that was divided by the yearly hours and this was your hourly wage,, Our standard week was 36hrs and this is what you got paid for regardless of what you actually worked. But the upside was starting at the begining of the year you kept a running total of hours worked and as soon as you reached your annual total your years work was over, With being in the Turbine overhaul/breakdown game, lots of unplanned hours etc I have often finished my years work by the end of August, then 4 months off on full pay.  for any emergency call outs on this off period we got paid double time for ALL hours because it was all classed as overtime. Hope you can follow this and are not too bored with the long post. Cheers Gordon.Lincoln SP-170 MigHypertherm powermax 45Lorch T220 AC/DC TigButters FM 215 synergic MigKemppi 180 adaptive mig RULES ARE FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FOOLS AND THE  GUIDANCE OF WISE MEN.
Reply:http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_Overtime.htm  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:I'm totally up-front with my guys and they know the system....a little TOO well sometimes and it winds up costing me, but YOU need to know YOUR system ASAP.Some places break it down by pay periods. Depending on when a pay period starts and ends can dictate when your overtime begins. My guys can be sneaky and push a job into overtime when we're at the end of a pay period and not in the middle of one. If we're going over for the period and there's no room in the job for it, they get to go home early for a few days. During the holidays it's either good or bad for them, but it happens.Also, we have to have APPROVED overtime. That's important for the bottom line and for tax/insurance reasons. If you work over and it's not pre-approved, that's on YOU and not me. Clocking in early won't get you extra $$$ and will only piss me off if there's no approval. Trust me, around holiday time EVERYONE wants extra money and I'll give it where I can. But if it ain't available in the job, don't expect it to show up on your check by clocking in early without saying something first.Get your pay system detailed to you (you should have done this when you hired on). Have all the specifics about overtime and pay schedules outlined. Don't leave any room for doubt because animosity between you and your boss regarding perceived 'theft' isn't a healthy working environment for either of you, especially so soon on the job.We want to see something like this in the signature line:Lincoln Ranger 250Miller Auto-Darkening Elite HelmetLincoln 100Lincoln MigMiller Spectrum 375Craftsman 8 galllon gas powered compressorLongevity 200amp Tig Welder LT-200D
Reply:California-8hrs a day40hrs a weekyer employer is breaking California Law.Even IF he states that you are a salaried employee he is most likely wrong. and some Salaried employees are due OT also.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:When I worked hourly I got paid from the time we left the shop until the work was finished ,I got 1 hour lunch no pay and two 15 minute breaks paid. I did not get paid for the drive back to the yard or to unload anything that was no going to be used the next day. Anything over 40 hours was overtime. But when learning a trade(welding,electrical,carpentry,plumbing,A/C,machinist etc) you are going to take the knowledge of the person teaching you how to do something with you forever and you do not pay them for teaching you a skill that will help you make a great living. Now when you are in the field 5 years or more then I would argue for every penny I work for. I am an electrical engineer and a master electrician. It cost me nothing to learn the electrical trade but cost me 45000.00 to earn a master's degree.
Reply:Texas a & m aggies gig em!!!!!!!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by DualieFarmersamm nailed it.  Overtime is only after 40 hours in CA
Reply:I get paid overtime anything past 8 hrs a day and double time after 16hrs. if I dont get 8hrs rest time between shifts every hour worked is double time till I get 8 off. sat is time and half sunday depends on saterday if you work saterday sunday is double time if you didnt work saterday its time and halfIBEW 1412Hobart HH210Lincoln 225ACLincoln Ranger 305DLincoln Precision Tig 185Lincoln Pro Mig 255CMiller Spectrum 2050
Reply:Broccoli and Fat Bastard are correct.   8 hours per day, OR 40 hours per week.If you aren't in an exempt classification (there are lots of exemptions), you work 9 hours Monday, 8 hours Tuesday thru Thursday, and 7 hours Friday (assuming this is all one pay period), 40 hours total, you are due one hour overtime.Agricultural occupations, it is 10 hours per day, or 60 hours per week.My mind is a little rusty, it's been years since I read the rules, or even cared about the rules myself, but exemptions can include:Certain "professional" occupations.An hourly rate a certain percentage (I think double???) above minimum wage.Union contracts, which in many cases can supersede wage and hour regulations.There's more, I don't pretend to be an expert, but personally before raising a huge stink with the employer, I would be sure to read the rules very closely, it's not a hard and fast rule, and you very well could end up with egg on your face, and out of a job.
Reply:Fat Bastard hit it on the head; there are different time schedules that companies follow. If a company wants to work a different schedule than the 8hr a day, 40hr work week, the employees must agree tot his. Our company runs 4-10's. Every week for the guys in the field is a 3 day weekend. If they go over 10, they get time and a half. Drive time is typically paid one way; they pay you to go to work, you come back off the clock.Every company is different. If you're going to fight with them over it, I suggest you sit down and talk it over rationally, and LISTEN to the company rationale. If they are full of crap; keep a good log of your hours, and then go to the labor board.Any way you slice it, you are as good as unemployed when the arguments head in this direction in most construction related industries.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:I would think that it would be easy to take advantage of someone that does not know HOW he is to be paid. I would go and ask the boss or the financial person in the company to explain how everything works and then keep your own records and do your own math. On payday you should be able to at least know your total hours, how much is overtime and at what rate. Then you should be able to determine your gross pay. You should always be able to figure out your own gross pay. If you cannot, you need to learn.Then if your gross pay does not match the checks gross pay you need to ask questions. Not everyone steals but many make mistakes. As for deductions they will vary depending on how much you made but your gross minus deduction will equal your check amount.Once you can figure out your pay, you can ask if there was a MISTAKE made and get it corrected. If the boss is trying to steal, he will pick a different target than the guy that knows how to figure out his pay. I would suggest that maybe the boss is not stealing or making mistakes but that you have not learned what you need to so that you will know what you are supposed to get.You can't know something is wrong until you know what right is.No matter what you do for work it is ALWAYS your responsibility to make sure your pay is correct and if it is not, you get it correct, even if it is wrong in your favor you get it fixed (or you would be stealing from them).
Reply:We gets time and a half after forty. Shop Im in now is on a 4 10's schedule. Some local union plants pay OT after 8 but most places in this part of the world pay OT after 40. 4 days 10 hours, 5 days 8 hours, 2 days 20 hours,9-8-8-8-6,12-8-8-12, anyway you slice it up OT after forty. And I've never had an hour lunch break, only 1/2 hour.Ranger 250 GXTSmith Gas Axe
Reply:I though I was right. I did read the labor board rules and read them the same way Broccoli, Fat Bastard, jsfab did.  I didn't want to sway the topic by saying what I thought right away.  too get deeper into it,  since I work a alternative schedule I get paid OT after my 9hrs.  double time after 12hrs.  They tried to BS me when I inquired about it. saying something about us being a construction company.  I told them that we have a roof over are head and we cant be. I told them I would like to see this in in the labor laws.  they still not proved it yet. so next step is to fill out labor law claim.  I was warned about this problem from my  co-workers the first week I started. thanks guysLast edited by Stone_Elvis; 11-25-2009 at 01:27 AM.
Reply:8 hrs duty... Standby or work, overtime is start an hour after finished real work time plus 1.5X sunday and holiday is 2X... Until all job finished... Asian reference on salary...Unit in my fab shop dept:my good hand and team that trust me...A lone welder make art... a village full of welder make Miracles...
Reply:Here is another rip-off, every year YOU MUST inquire with Social Security that the tax withheld from your check has been played to SS. You pay half and the employer pays half. No, if’s or but’s.  There are a few cases where the SS tax is deducted from the employees check and pocketed by the company. Come 65, will not have full SS credit for all the years you have worked and that SS check you’ll depend on each month will be very small. http://www.ssa.gov/Last edited by transit; 11-25-2009 at 07:31 PM.Lots of employers are short changing the help. But 1 in 10 americans are reported as out of work and many more are out of work but not reporting. So employee abuse is found everywhere. Add to this that in most states you can be let go for no reason. If you are going to raise a fuss make sure it's a big one with a big payoff. You'll make your complant, get your back pay and some leather goods in the form of a boot in the a$$ on your way out the door.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:Labor laws are Federal.  The same law that applies in Ca will apply in New York as well.
Reply:Pick your battles.  Keep in mind that is you protest too much you will likely be laid off because they don't have any work for you or some other reason.  I had a buddy who went to the labour board for his holiday pay and not only did he lose his job he got blacklisted.  The employer would find out where he was working and phone the company concerned and tell them he was a troublemaker.   Check your labour rules.  In some cases I have seen people let it ride for over a year then when ready to quit file with the labour board and get a huge back pay check.  The employer had to open all his time keeping records five years back and pay everyone their due wages.  Every jurisdiction is different.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stone_ElvisHi everybody!  I finally landed a welding job and am stoked about it.  I make less money than I did sitting in front of a computer all day,  but its worth it.  but now I feel that my boss is stealing  my  overtime hours and minutes. let me give you my schedule first.  I work an alternative work week. 7:30am to 5:00pm. It consist of 5days, 9hrs and then 4days, 9hrs.  haveing every other Friday off.  I also live in California so the ot laws may be different that  other states.  my boss only pays after 40 so last month we built a cell phone tower that took us in till 2am to finish. the following day I showed up at noon.  cause there was no way I could make it back in the morning. that was like 18 hours and there was not one bit of double time on my check.my interpretation of the labor laws say that he owes me.  Am I right?plus when we get back to the shop a little late and unload the truck,  we will have 20 min of OT but do not get paid for that either.  Im just fustrated.  ive tried to talk to them about it but it seem that they want me to forget about it.
Reply:Originally Posted by PookieLabor laws are Federal.  The same law that applies in Ca will apply in New York as well.
Reply:Originally Posted by PookieLabor laws are Federal.  The same law that applies in Ca will apply in New York as well.
Reply:so im getting confused.  is OT after 8 or 9 hours(alternitive schedule).I read it as OT is after 8 or after 40hrs. if you go over 8 in a day is OT.  If you work say 7hrs a day that anything after 40hrs it OT.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stone_Elvisso im getting confused.  is OT after 8 or 9 hours(alternitive schedule).I read it as OT is after 8 or after 40hrs. if you go over 8 in a day is OT.  If you work say 7hrs a day that anything after 40hrs it OT.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stone_Elvisso im getting confused.  is OT after 8 or 9 hours(alternitive schedule).I read it as OT is after 8 or after 40hrs. if you go over 8 in a day is OT.  If you work say 7hrs a day that anything after 40hrs it OT.
Reply:Just quit. F that job, take a couple of Miller Dynasty welders with you. I know you are half  as good a welder as I am, but i am the best in the world, so being half as good as me, you should have no trouble finding another under paid welding job.
Reply:Originally Posted by JohnnyWelderJust quit. F that job, take a couple of Miller Dynasty welders with you. I know you are half  as good a welder as I am, but i am the best in the world, so being half as good as me, you should have no trouble finding another under paid welding job.
Reply:If you want my honest opinion and im sure you dont but here goes anyhow, then heres what you need to do.#1 first off stop asking the people on here bout this.  all your gona get is way to much mis information and its gona confuse the hell out of you.  You may get some correct information but how are ya gona know????#2  go to the library and get the law book and read it.  I know it sounds boring but that book is the final word and is what the courts are going to go by.  In the written law you will find the answers to all your questions.  You have got to educate yourself in this matter so you can deal from a position of power.#3  stop asking your employer about this and shooting all your aces.  Once you are educated on this subject you will know what questions to ask to build your case.  only ask questions that will help you build a case.  questions only about their policy and positions.  do not argue and do not tell than that they are not in compliance, there will be a time for that latter once you have all the facts and have built your case.  If they want to know why you want to know dont shoot your aces and let them know you think they are cheating you as  you probably have already done.  This will only put them on the defensive and clam up.  Just tell them you are trying to better understand how you pay is figured.  Which you are.#4  Stop having verbal conversations with your employer.  take the time to set down and write a letter with your questions.  Do not talk to them verbally and insist that they respond to you in writing.  Once you have their statement in writting then you acttually have something you can take to court.  a verbal conversation is hear say and you have nothing.  Verbal conversations are worthless and they know this so they are not going to want to put it in writing.  Again there is no way to prove a verbal conversation even took place.  Document, document , document.  even take copies of your time cards every week.#5  Again they are not going to want to put it in writing.  When they dont want to put it in writting inform then that if they will not put it on paper then they can answer those questions under the CANNONS OF LAW.  most of the time when they hear that they will comply.  What does cannons of law mean???  it means you take them to court and sue them.   Do you sue them for money?????  NO because you havent built your case yet.  so what can you sue them for??????  How bout information?????  Most judges will gladly rule in your favor as all you want is information.  On a court order they WILL have to put it in writting.  Once you have the information then now you can build a case.  and remeber you will now know what to do with this information as you educated yourself in step #2 right???Unfortunattly there is much more to this than just knowing how to weld.  some bussiness skills are required.  If you do not exercise this then all you will have is a mediocre job all the time wondering if your getting screwed.  the hardest job in the world is thinking.  thats why so few people do it.  If your not willing to take this job on by yourself then your only other option is to try and unionize.  a union will do all the things i just outlined for you.  only catch is they will take some of your pay every paycheck and now you WILL be stuck to whatever barganing agreement they arange for you weither you like it or not.I know this sounds like a big pain in the rear and it is.  but if your gona be successfull then thats what ya got to do.Last edited by MrBullfrog92; 11-27-2009 at 07:48 AM.
Reply:Ok, so did you just start in the middle of the week/pay period?  Are you salary? Do they pay for lunch hour, what does your contract say about that?   Perhaps the overtime will be added to your next paycheck.
Reply:When will you be putting up the miller dynastys up for sale on ebay?
Reply:Maybe, just maybe there is nothing wrong happening other than the OP not understanding his pay. There is no point to "Building a case" unless you know there is some dishonest behavior.The OP needs to understand his pay and what and how he should get paid and then determine if there is wrongdoing going on. Then if there is you switch gears and handle it but you have to figure out what is happening before you jump into suing for information or cash.Ignorance has hurt more people than thieves or mistakes have.
Reply:Maybe, just maybe there is nothing wrong happening other than the OP not understanding his pay. There is no point to "Building a case" unless you know there is some dishonest behavior.The OP needs to understand his pay and what and how he should get paid and then determine if there is wrongdoing going on. Then if there is you switch gears and handle it but you have to figure out what is happening before you jump into suing for information or cash.
Reply:People(workers) want to be respected as professionals BUT they don't act like professionals.If you are going to have a job it is your responsibility to know what you are getting paid and what your job requirements are.  I find it absurd that you would come on here and say "I Think my boss is stealing from me". Think being the operative word.You don't even know if he is stealing from you because you don't seem to know what you are supposed to be paid.  How old are you?  Don't you have a working contract?  To be a success welding will be a small part of the equation.  People and business skills are more important. Sounds hard but you need to become a real pro not just a welder. I always take my employees in and sit them down and ask if they have any questions about hours or pay or anything related to their job.  I don't like employees not knowing what I expect. I want them to concentrate on their job and doing a good job.
Reply:Originally Posted by JohnnyWelderJust quit. F that job, take a couple of Miller Dynasty welders with you. I know you are half  as good a welder as I am, but i am the best in the world, so being half as good as me, you should have no trouble finding another under paid welding job.
Reply:Originally Posted by buckwheat_launless you really hate your job, it is time to grin and take it, because unless you know you have another job lined up, there are going to be 1000's of people lining up to replace you that have no problem not making overtime.  You should check other online forums, there are professionals out there with M.D. educations working minimum wage jobs just to keep food on the table.
Reply:Originally Posted by burnandreturnPeople(workers) want to be respected as professionals BUT they don't act like professionals.If you are going to have a job it is your responsibility to know what you are getting paid and what your job requirements are.  I find it absurd that you would come on here and say "I Think my boss is stealing from me". Think being the operative word.You don't even know if he is stealing from you because you don't seem to know what you are supposed to be paid.  How old are you?  Don't you have a working contract?  To be a success welding will be a small part of the equation.  People and business skills are more important. Sounds hard but you need to become a real pro not just a welder. I always take my employees in and sit them down and ask if they have any questions about hours or pay or anything related to their job.  I don't like employees not knowing what I expect. I want them to concentrate on their job and doing a good job.
Reply:Originally Posted by buckwheat_launless you really hate your job, it is time to grin and take it, because unless you know you have another job lined up, there are going to be 1000's of people lining up to replace you that have no problem not making overtime.  You should check other online forums, there are professionals out there with M.D. educations working minimum wage jobs just to keep food on the table.
Reply:It is supposed to be anything past your normal day. Provided you did not take a day off that week. We had guys that would actually plan to get overtime on a job that had to go. It started out harmlessly by one Monday after a wild weekend, they missed work. That week they still got full pay by working the overtime needed to finish the job on time and stay on schedule. By one or a couple of the guys taking a day off, usually a Monday. When they were really needed bad on Monday. Then on Thursday or Friday they would get the overtime to finish ithe job on time. That is wrong.I will admit though that many times it just worked out that way. I saw that happen a few times. Someone got hurt on the job, they did not even report it or complain about it. Took the next day off and then were accused of sandbagging. They got paid though, because they explained what happened. We had guys that purposely took a long time to do something or decided that tomorrow was another day. The boss said finish it at regular time or go home for good.       Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:well here is my .02.  When I worked in California as a electrician I work for a contractor on an hourly basis.   I typically worked 8 hours and if iwork anymore than that the company would put that towards paid time off at my regular hourly rate.  Not knowing any better that sounded ok I guess.  I few months went by and thing were going along good, I took a couple of days off during my first month for a friends wedding, the Contractor never used any of my "vacation pay", when I asked the journeyman I worked for about this, he said that our boss did this on occassion as a show of thanks, and that the "vacation time" was only used if you took a week or so off.  So things were looking good until I got a check for abotu 25% of what it should have been.  When I called the contractor and asked about this they siad that they got around to adding up my time off and decided to deduct if all from my check, and also if I would please quite using 2400 hour time as it was to confusing for the contractors wife to figure out, I tried to explain how it worked but I was on a down hill slope here.  Two days later I was let go because of poor work, ( ironically the work that they had claimed I had down was infact down by the journeymen, who even call the contractor and told him so I an effort to help me keep my job).  So thinking things were smelling fishy I called the division of labor standards in california, and explained my situation,  they prompley sent me a stack of paper worth to fill out.  It turns of that anything worked in excess of an 8 hour day/ 5 days a week or 10 hour day 4 days a week is overtime, and has to be paid at a rate of 1 and 1/2 times the hourly rate.  employers cannot hold extra hours for vacation time and pay them out at normal base pay.  next if an employee takes time off during a payperiod that time difference has to be reflected in that time periods paycheck, not 3 months down the line.  basically the guy was trying to get out of paying extra taxes on the overtime hours.  I turned out for me that getting let go was the best thing that could have happened, thing only went down hill for them afterwards.  I went back to doing what I enjoy most firefighting.Good luck too you, If you have any questions give division of labor standards a call they have lost of info.   Being educated doesn't hurt a bit, its being screwed that does!
Reply:Originally Posted by Stone_Elvisthat why I didn't press the 20 minutes Ot at the end of the day.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stone_Elvisthat why I didn't press the 20 minutes Ot at the end of the day.