bbq pit

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I join this sit because I think it gives some good advice to the beginning welder etc. also becaue I am building my first smoker cooker rotisserie style. I have ran into a few problems and hope someone out their can help me, my first problems is what size should the shaft be for the rotisserie, how should I assumable it,what size  should the sprocket be the pros and the cons. everything someone could possible tell me to make this work. the next question is, should I put in two smoke stacks or one, what end of the pit if just one what size pipe should I use. any pic. or welcomed. the pit is half inch 24x60 the fire box is three eight inch 14x 60  what ever you have to offer. I am going to try to attach pic to this. Attached Images
Reply:I can't give you much info on rotisseries. I have never looked at one closely. The smoke stack, in my opinion should have 25% of the volume the cooking chamber has. I like two stacks. In your situation, I would put one 3" or 4" at each end. Bigger can't hurt as long as you have a damper on top. This will be helpful when you are only cooking at one end of the pit.
Reply:I will tell you this from my experiences as far as building smokers.  Try to keep the cooker as air tight as possible.  it will help with controlling your tempature when you are cooking.  What I mean is make sure all of your doors and vents seal nice and tight when closed.  i don't want to sound like i am knocking your progress so far, your work looks good, but honestly as far as your fire box goes, i think that you are a little on the large side.  I have built several custom cookers for people, some of which are big into these cookoff competitions, and when using a 250gal propane tank (30 inches X 84 inches) i usully use a fire box of about 24 inches square. I will throw this in, if you are going to build a fire in the fire box and cook meat inside the pit I am not sure you will gain anything from a rotisserie over just a grate.  The reason being that you are cooking using indirect heat which means that the heat will be even around the meat.  The only time I have ever used an acutal rotating rotisserie is over a direct heat source. So that the heat is not concentrated in one spot for too long which is not the case when using a separate fire box.  As far as the vents go, You will need to vent the fire box as well as the pit.    Remember that hot air always rises so mount the vents low on the fire box and high on the pit, using one on each side.  The reason being you want to pull air from the fire box thru the pit. You will have to add a damper or adjustment to adjust how much air  moves thru the vents so you want to error on the large size.  I would not be afraid to use atleast 5 inch pipe.  The only other thing I see in your pictures is that the holes from your fire box to your cooking pit might be to large,  in my opinion if you only had them half of what they were you would be adequate, but you will know more about it by trial and error.  Give me a couple days to do some scanning and I will post a few pics of some I have built, for you to look at.    As I said before I hope what I said has not come across wrong, I am just explaining what I have found my customers, and I seems to like, however there are always different strokes for different folks.  the main thing is your learning and making something you can enjoy.  Keep the pics coming and keep us informed of your progress.  Looks like it will be a nice setup.  ~JacksonI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Thanks for the information on the pit and smoke stack guys, what about the length of the smoke stack pipe. I am asking for information and I have not taken any of it in the wrong way. as for my vent holes I will be able to open and closed them, I will take a pic. of them when I get them done. having a fire box to big will that cause a problem. Have pic of my doors will post.
Reply:here or some pic of my doors. they or as tight as I can get them. Attached Images
Reply:I don't think it will cause a problem, You just may find out that you will not have to have a fire in the entire box.  As far as the length of the pipe I have never seen it make a difference.  My suggestion is make it tall enough to get it above your head.  makes it easier to work around it with the smoke not coming out in your face.  Keep us posted.  ~JacksonI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:here are some pic of the way I set up the fire box to the main cooking chamber to control the heat. yes I used the pit for labor day not trying tor brag but that thing cook good. I will have pic of the racks tomorrow. Attached ImagesLast edited by burn out; 09-15-2005 at 10:40 PM.
Reply:A question from the other side of the world:What on earth do you guys cook in those huge things?Scott
Reply:Scott, don't you know bigger is always better, hehe   burnout,  looks like you are coming along nicely.  I have two orders that came in last week for large cookers.  one will be all stainless, for a friend of mine that is big into these cook offs, and the other is going to be aluminum, curious to see how the Aluminum performs.  never tried it in a cooker before.   again nice job, and keep the pics coming.   ~jacksonI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Timely thread....just so happens I'm starting a pit smoker project this month....   I'm interested seeing how everyone does their inside grill racks.  I'm looking at using stainless steel wire mesh, diamond shaped, for my grills.  I'm also thinking a grease drain fitting on the vent end would be usefull.  Since I'm going to use this grill strictly at home I'm wondering what kind of wheels I should look for, i.e. solid metal, what.  The pictures are very helpfull....keep'em coming gentlemen...
Reply:here or some pics of my grills they or season and ready to go. I used hog lord to season the grills and this pit, I must say I was afraid at first but I am glad I did. now I will start working on the trailer. Attached ImagesLast edited by burn out; 09-18-2005 at 02:14 AM.
Reply:how far down from the top/center of the pipe did you come down for your doors and hinge placement?  I'm thinking from what I've seen is that 4" from the top should be sufficient.
Reply:I still want to know what you do in them.We barbeque lots, but they're open barbeques. I do mostly seafood.I'm intrigued about these 'smoker cookers'. How do they work? Is the meat roasted or smoked? Do you do big slabs of meat? What sort?And what's a 'cook off'?Scott
Reply:I cut my doors 8 in. down from top dead center I got that tip from www.cyclops.com as you will see if you go to this sit he had some good information. he said your doors will be lighter and that you will keep some heat, go to the site and you will see the monster he built.  also he was able to put rods in the top to hang meet for smokeing. if you need me to I will take a pic up close of the doors for you.This is the first pit that I have own this size It will hold 2-1/2 cases of leg quarters, I cook for the high school team, family reunions. when I cook for my family I put chicken on one side, boston but, ribs, sausage on the other. we like smoke meat and I think these pits do a great job putting in the smoke. If you remove the two top grills you can cook a pig on each side, just guessing maby 30 to 40 pounds. I do not do cook offs but it is when some one compete, and you have judges that taste the food and pick a winner.
Reply:burnout is dead on,  The lower you can cut your doors the better.  Hot air rises so the more room you have above the doors is more heat you keep when you open the doors.  As far as the cook offs go,  There are several with in 200 miles of here every year.  mainly bbq, or wild game events usually.  You cook your recipes, a team of judges picks a winner.   alot of times it a pretty nice prize for winning.  above all its another good reason to drink beer with your buddies and go out of town.  ~JacksonI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Thanks guys.I like the sound of those cook-offs.And I like the sound of that meat. With the fire that close, it would be a combination of smoked and cooked.If I built one of those I reckon I'd be the only person in Sydney with one.
Reply:Now there's a money making idea...  Why not build one and start doing pit bbq cooking?  You've got some good beef down under so that wouldn't be a problem. You can cook just about anything you want on a pit style smoker.  You build it I'll volunteer to come down and do the cooking...  Just give me and the wife a place to live and I'll cook, weld and fix PC's....  Have some fun and introduce something new to the area....you could wind up a wealthy man...
Reply:You can live in the shed! A couple of hammocks strung across the mess would work well.Yep, plenty of beef and sheep. We eat kangaroos and crocodiles, too - perfect shape for a crocodile.Outdoor brick ovens are becoming popular these days. They're shaped like an igloo and used for bread, pizza, roast etc. They're wood fired, so the action would be similar. I don't think they'd smoke, though. And they're certainly not portable.Open spits are popular, too. Bet there's been a few accidents at cook-offs with people getting pissed and leaning on the pit thing.Scott
Reply:Yes there have been some cases of on-lookers getting a little pissed and leaning on the hot shell....  They only do it once and their wives tend to drag them away by the ear...It's too bad it is kinda tough for a yank to get a work permit down your way.  Unless a company will sponser you it's almost impossible to work down your way.  I don't balme them however...keep the jobs for the locals, that's only fair and right.Well if you find an area a little bigger than your shed and find a shop to weld out of I'd be game to build bbq smokers....and you can sell them....for a tidy sum of course...The pits are fun to cook on.  It takes time and you have to keep watch over the pit to ensure the temperature stays constant.  But the results are well worth it.  Nothing better than good ribs and brisket with a cold beer to wash it all down.
Reply:You might be surprised how easy it is to get a job down here.There is a huge shortage of skilled tradesmen in Australia. We made the mistake of training too many computer nerds and marketing stooges and neglected to train the people who make useful things. On the news the other day there was a story about a local company who had just hired a guy from Ireland as a sheet metal worker. They had to sponsor him but were happy to as they had advertised for months for a local and nobody was interested.You'd feel right at home here, especially given our toad of a Prime Minister hangs on every word George Bush utters and does everything he asks - I've mentioned before that we call him the shrub i.e. a 'little bush'. Sadly, we have McDonalds and Starbucks etc. Our TV is mostly US programmes, and our kids wear baseball hats and pants that look like they'll fall off any minute. Many of them speak and slouch along like rappers, which makes me smile given the priviledged lives they lead.Of course, you'd have to learn how to speak the language down here. And you'd have to get used to watching football where people don't wear helmets and play doesn't stop every 30 seconds. And you'd have to get used to proper beer.We're nice and out of the way down here and not being a super power nobody pays us much attention. Now, what is brisket?
Reply:Yep we've got the same kid dress "code" here....and like your kids most of our's come from middle class families....pretty funny...  But then again my parents were appaled when I came home with "long" hair from college...  Different generations, different sytles.  But I must say the rapper style seems to have an underlying violent streak whereas our long hair was just to piss off the older generation... Now we are the "older" generation...Brisket is a cut of meat that comes from the breast area of animals.  It is a tougher cut of meat that used to be made into hamburger.  It was discovered that by slow cooking it that it became quite tender and good.  A 10 pound brisket usually cooks for 10 to 12 hours on the pit smokers and turns out very tender.  Very interesting about the trades and shortage of workers.  It is very similiar here.  Lots of IT people, of which I was one, and a shortage of trades people in the last few years.  Not too many parents send their kid to college to learn to be a welder, plumber, etc....I decided to learn welding because it interested me and I could then build projects like a bbq pit smoker for my own use.  And a welder can always seem to find work wherever they go.  The down side to changing professions at my age, 52, is that everybody wants a "kid" and the pay is pretty low for any kind of entry level work.  But I've got some lines on a couple of local jobs that might be interesting, i.e. a company that builds the fire trucks and rescue vehicles for many cities and counties here in the US and Canada.  Might be an interesting job.I'd be curious as to what your "local" outfits are really looking for as far as welders go.  Might actually be something I'd look into....and my wife is supportive of a new adventure.... Always wanted to "learn" a new language and drink good beer...
Reply:As I had already told scott, I have a friend who had his travel and moving expenses mostly covered in his move from the US (Georgia) to southern Austrilia.  He is a college professor, but he said that there are several occupational categories they are looking to import.  His appointment was supposed to be for 3 years, but I think he trying to stretch it to a lifetime appointment in Geelong.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:We're in the middle of a resources boom. The mining companies are employing anybody they can lay their hands on. Of course, on the downside the mines tend to be in the middle of nowhere. I'd say it's more of a young person's game i.e. work for 2 years in a mine and live in the desert where there's nothing to do until you save enough to put a deposit on a house.In the cities, though, there is still a shortage of tradespeople. I have a mate down the road who has a big workshop out the back of his house. He makes a living out of fabricating small balconies, stair railings, security grills etc. He doesn't advertise, all his work comes via word of mouth. I've got a much smaller space out the back of my house and I suffer 'workshop envy'. I do small stuff mostly for myself. I don't tell many people I can weld because then my weekends would be taken up with doing favours for people. My welding skills aren't great, so I don't do anything that anyone will have to stand on, or hang from, or tow etc. I first found this board when I was looking for a welding course to improve my skills.I change careers often, but to date they have all been 'white collar' jobs. When I've paid off a bit more of my mortgage, I'll look at working part time and supplementing that with small welding jobs. I'll be encouraging my kids to get a trade. They're girls, but I'm hoping one will turn out to be a tomboy.I'll see if I can find out anything about welding/fabricating jobs down here.Scott
Reply:I wanted to add something to this thread, given that the question was asked earlier.  There are several different cuts of meat and several optimal ways of cooking them to achieve the best tenderness.  This information should impact how one designs their outdoor cookers.  So, there is:Grilling - Which is very high, very direct heat, useful for tender cuts of meat, like steaks, chops, and chicken.  Broiling is the same as a grilling except that the heat comes from above, rather than below.  Smoke generated from the grease dripping off the meat will actually lend a nice smoky flavor to the meat itself.  I've heard of grills that run at 700-800F.Roasting - Which is high, indirect heat around 400F.  This is useful for larger, tender cuts of meat like tri-tip, london broil, or whole birds like chickens, ducks, and turkeys.  A large turkey will have to be cooked at a lower temperature to be done throughout.  Ideally, the temperature is as high as possible such that the internal temp of the meat is done before the outside is burned.  I like my tri-tips to be a dark golden brown on the outside, medium on the outside near the edges and medium-rare in the thickest parts.Barbecue - This is the thing, also known as slow-roasting which is low, indirect heat.  This is useful for less tender cuts of meat with a great deal of connective tissue.  At temperatures below 225F the proteins in the connective tissue dissolve, making the meat very tender and juicy.  Ideal cuts for this method are brisket, roasts like shoulder and butt (pulled pork), and spare ribs, not baby back ribs.  Incidentally, braising and stewing are two alternate cooking methods that accomplish the same thing with less tender cuts.  This can be done in a dutch oven, a pot on a stove, or a crock pot. Smoking - This is a different method entirely which is very low, indirect heat over a very long period of time.  Without seeking a reference, I think the max temp for this process is something like 180F.  The smoke itself permeates the meat entirely, gives a very strong flavor and actually serves to kill off any harmful bacteria.  One can smoke salmon, various fowl like turkeys, chicken, and ducks, sausages, and tender cuts of beef.I have been told, and may actually test the theory this year that turkey smoked to 135F and then deep-fried to 165-170F is one of the best tasting things there is.  Testing that theory depends on my ability to build a barbecue/smoker which I'm sure is a trial that every weldor has to go through.  If you're serious about cooking meat, get an internal temperature probe.  You wouldn't weld without the right tools for the job, why cook without the right tools?-Heath
Reply:Hi Halbritt,I'm going to print that out and keep it - I'd love to try that turkey.The area in Sydney where I live was populated by the Greeks in the 1950s. And the Greeks cook lamb to perfection.In Greece, the village baker traditionally keeps his oven running all day and in the mornings people often drop off their evening meals in pots for him to bung in the oven during the day. They collect them on the way home from work.Our local baker is Greek and he cooks 25-30 whole lambs every week after the bread has come out of the oven. I had one last weekend for a party. It fed 30 people. He was chuffed when I said he could keep the head.They season them, put them in a tray with water in the bottom, cover them with foil and cook them for 5 hours.It's great that a custom like that survives in a modern city. And we're only about 6klms from the centre of Sydney. (That's about 4 miles.)IT Welder, metric measurements are another thing you'd have to get used to down here e.g. we don't have 'half inch' steel, it's 10mm.ScottExcellent synopsis of cooking techniques!  I have a couple of digital thermometers I use for cooking.  Getting and keeping the temperature consistent is key to good bbq pit cooking.  I understand shop envy...  Where I live now is the first nice sized shop I've ever had...30X45 feet.  Has heat and hot and cold running water.  My wife threatens to put a cot out there....I don't know why...I forgot Australia has the metric system.  Learning that was just coming into to school when I graduated.  Never to old to learn something new....and I could always fall back on the "I'm a Yank" excuse...  I'd be in good shape in your neck of woods if I could bring all my welding gear and my ham radio stuff.  Even if I was in the middle of nowhere for a while having a ham rig still lets you talk to the world.I'll post some pictures over the next few weeks as to the progress of construction of my bbq.
Reply:I looking forward to seeing the BBQ take shape.We must have gone metric about 30 years ago. I'm 43 now.When I drive, I think in kilometres.When it comes to weight of people, I think in stones and pounds.Height of people, I think feet and inches.When I'm cutting anything, its back to metric.Scott
Reply:Couple of other things you're going to have to get used to if you move down here (to Australia) IT-Welder:1. Leave all your electrical welding equipment at home, its 240V (single phase) here. 415V 3-phase.2. If you're bringing any OA equipment, you'll have to buy adaptors to use Aussie gas. All the threads are different. I bought a little Smith torch from the US on Ebay, but luckily it came with fittings that I could silver solder to local hose fittings. 3. We drive on the "right" side of the road - i.e. the left. 4. A "fanny" refers to the bits on the other side of a female. Could be embarrassing!Apart from that Australia is a great place to live and work! There are already a few yanks here if you need an interpreter, one just moved in across the road from me. Scotts comments on the shortage of tradesmen is also true down here in Melbourne. I'm stuck in a desk job earning a reasonable wage, but a friend of mine who works in maintenance (fitting, turning, welding) is taking home more than double!I've tried getting into a trade, but here that generally means a 3 or 4 year apprenticeship, and with a mortgage and expensive hobbies, I can't go back to earning youth wages again. So in the meantime I spend all my time and money in the shed enjoying my hobby! Maybe one day I'll have enough machinery to start my own business.Thanks for the great site guys, I've learnt a ****load from the postings here.
Reply:I can understand your predicament.  Bloke's got to pay the bills and keep the wife happy.....  You should try being 52 and trying to learn a new vocation...it's not that simple.  I can understand and appreciate why some employers are very hesitant to take on an "older" guy in this line of work.  They are thinking he may not work past 55 or so.  That used to be the norm but not anymore given how our lifespans have increased.  I've been surfing the AUS web sites that offer welding jobs and I do see a fair amount of, I guess, apprentice jobs.  I assume, and correct me here if I'm wrong, that what they call 2nd or 3rd year people?  It's a catch-22 trying to do something totally different in life....you know what you were good at but trying to get good at something else takes time.  Of course I plan on living to 100...providing my wife doesn't do me in for bring home another chunk of steel....Frankly I think it would be fun, an adventure, and a chance to meet and see a whole new piece of the world if I could land a job in your country. And I could do some great BBQ while I'm downunder....
Reply:Here's the shop where the infamous pit is being built......and a another toy... Attached Images
Reply:That's a very tidy shop, and a very shiny toy.Yep, '2nd and 3rd year' means apprentices.Apprentice wages down here are very low, have been for some time, which is why we have a shortage a tradespeople. A plumber or electrician in either Sydney or Melbourne who isn't earning $100K isn't trying.Scott