Burn Ban now includes Outdoor Welding in parts of Texas

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I've got 20 feet of fence left on a job that I did not put up until they pour the deck around the new pool. Now Denton County and City of Corinth Texas has a emrgency delcaration that includes outdoor welding in the ban.I just happend to notice it today. It went into effect last Thursday. Oops. Okay need some rain now...I guess I'll have to put up a wood fence. Chain link isn't allowed.
Reply:If you had a tent erected over the fence, would that be outdoors?Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:I heard this on the other forum.  Its really bad.  Got a friend down in south texas who is a contractor.  He is having a real hard one iwth this.  His biggest complaint is that they arent putting in any provisions and with taxes and all coming up this just isnt right.  Besides that, there isnt anything about outside smoking lolIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Assuming you can weld at your place.  Fabricate pieces as large as you can handle then use screws to install on site.  Come back after the ban and weld.   I like the tent suggestion.  Large heavy cotton canvas would work.  I get canvas at a tent and awning place.  I use it for welding blankets.  The canvas looks like the military tent.  It is fire resistant.
Reply:News StoryIf that guy can't weld inside a partially completed building, I doubt the tent would be tolerated. Man I'm sure the fine right now would be to the fullest extent. The contractor said and my brother who's cop in a near-by town agree's that I should do it but not get caught.  I don't think the contractor thought that one through.Last edited by TPnTX; 01-06-2006 at 08:52 PM.
Reply:I watched and and im like wtf  I am very saddned by this im gonna post this on the other side.   Tom,  if you do it though man, be smart about it. Like I know its tough to do it and not get caught, but if you feel you can,  have a fire watch.  What id like to see is there be something we can do....Even if its to call in and say hey I need to do this, get a fire permit, and perhaps even a few volunteers come out and keep fire watch on ya.  I mean tis a big nuicance. But I know from my years on the farm that guys all get together to help one another out.  burning large brush fires or weed control burns meant getting a bunch of famrers, many of which were VFD with their rigs to make sure the fire dint get out of contorl.  Why cant this be worked on.  I mean its like dear season.  You say,  well permit x number of welders a day with x number of permits.  If you burn with no permit then your up stink creek.  Keep it somehting reasonable on both sides of the fence though.  This just isnt reasonable.IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:oh hell no I'm not going to do it.  The owner who works at home has already seen me all last week carrying around a bucket of water and my fire extinguisher duct taped to my MIG dolly. He knows I'm not f'n around.One of the storys I read mentioned that they were going to re-think it next week.
Reply:Yeah I read that too.  or watched it.  Im really hoping they doIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Same story here. I would really be p/o'd if I was in the middle of building my shop. At least now, all my work is in the shop. We have been under a burn ban for several months now. ....and they still are having fires from idiots burning. They need to stop those idiots and leave the welders alone if the are in a safe area. How can you catch the countryside on fire in the middle of the concrete jungle? It should be a case by case basis, rather than a blanket edict.They are saying here they will lift it when it rains......that could be spring.  May have to bolt up by building if I ever get that far with no rain. Too bad they would notice me welding at night. Burns me up.
Reply:You guys got me a little curious so I was doing some poking around.This may be an example of what you're talking about. It's a "procalmation" by Hays county.Vaguely or poorly worded if you ask me. Uses the phrase "combustable materials" used in activities such as welding.Oh by the way, on the OT political side. Looks like they got the authority to do this under the Texas Disaster Act of 1975. Not to snip at any one but it looks like you guys gave some more control away to nanny gov't. http://www.co.hays.tx.us/press/fireworksban.pdf
Reply:Thats awful guys.  Well you know how it goes Sandy,  even God's favorite lil republic has to have some bad apples....tisk tisk.  Well I mean as big as we are you know theres gotta be something bad here.  Besides, you know its prolly some damn yankee who snuck in here under cover of darkness who helped to get that goingIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Besides, you know its prolly some damn yankee who snuck in here under cover of darkness who helped to get that going
Reply:Don't even get me started on that one, Sandy. We still live by the law of the west in a lot of places. You guys just wouldn't understand Hays Co. is just a stones throw from me. They are too close to the People's Republik Of Austin for my liking.  Comal Co. is getting just as bad in some regards, unfortunately. It is always the ones who move in and try to make it "better." In other words, they screw it up just like the place they left.  Shoot, I had to live where I am now, at least 12-13 years before I was considered a local. Before that, you were a city folk who wasn't to be trusted.
Reply:Well, Sandy they have Ca so screwed up they just have to spread the misery to the free World.I'm not a native of the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia, I'm from the UK where it's worseMy angle grinder is my best friend!
Reply:lmao   pent  lol   thats a good one people republic lol  hahaIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:yankee  it's a good thang i know how you r chris    ChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:A friend of mine has a project where he's willing to risk the fine to finish.  I offered this alternative.Set up a temporary structure around the welding area with t posts and canvas tarps.  One man welding inside the structure with two men outside with fire extinguishers.I came from California back in the day and I'm probably the most careful weldor you've ever seen around grass.  I've seen it explode and how fast and far it can go.I'm not welding outside due to the burn ban.  In fact I haven't welded outside in over a week because of the wind and low humidity.  I know one of my sparks from my grinder or arc can travel twenty to thirty feet and the low humidity means and explosion of flames.Under normal circumstances when it's dry but the humidity is up I'll have two pump up sprayers like you use for fertizer or bug spray next to me.  A pump up sprayer set to heavy mist is more deadly on a fire than two or three five gallon buckets of water and lasts longer along with being easier to control.I also use welding blankets alot around flammable areas.The burn ban isn't directed so much at the professional weldor who carries insurances etc.  It's for the wannabe who's fixing his own stuff or doing a favor for the neighbor.And when you look at the fires under these circumstances a lot of them are caused by welding processes.  In Texas we have more welded pipe fence than the rest of the nation combined.As for the politics of it, there's been some ignorance expressed here.  If you lost everything you owned because some fool didn't take safety precautions and had no insurances to cover your losses, wouldn't you want the government to protect you from them?It's about personal responsibility.  If someone's not personally capable of being responsible then we are become responsible for making them behave.And if you're like me and carry a million dollars liability insurance, do you think for a minute your coverage is worth squat if you break the law?life is good
Reply:the fence project don't matter as much. Me and several neighbors have all stopped welding on our personal property weeks ago. We all have pipe fence to finish or repair.The currnet job I'm on even though it's surrounded by woods is mostly dirt with a few leaves from the fall. I couldn't lite an oak leaf with a bic lighter. So my common sense has let me do this job with relative saftey in term of lighting up the place.If you tried to weld one joint over grass right now you'd have a fire. If the wind is blowing you'd have a big fire. If it's a red flag day, you'd have a firestorm.I have not seen anything to decscribe what is considered outdoors. No roof, partial walls? So I just don't think a tarp of anytype as being sufficient until we get more info.Insurance is a whole other talk show. A million isn't enough to cover what can happen if you burn down a rural town. Regardless of the law.It's not that the ban is a bad idea. It's just the unintended consequences that suck.We had a fire a few weeks back. A neighborhood kid found a lighter in the field behind us.  or as I put it. They caught the field on fire smoking weed or cigarettes or both.The grass fire was moving at 25 miles an hour with a 15mph wind.  Once it reached the treeline which is my property line it slowed down a lot. But it kept comming. Luckily I was home. I graded a path with my tractor and that pretty much stopped it. Next door however it made it through his treeline and hit the 100' grass behind his house. Gary was out of town and if it weren't for the neighbors and  VFD he would have lost his place. It burn right up to his back door.Last edited by TPnTX; 01-07-2006 at 09:35 AM.
Reply:What really gets me is we can't weld in the quarry. About 8 acres of non combustible stone and an average of 90 feet deep. Stupid, very stupid.Harv, you said what I was saying this morning. The weldors that are starting the fires are the weekend warriors. Not saying all are that way, but they (WW's) do lack experience in fire control a lot of times.
Reply:oh chuck youre not damn yankee...      youre a seabee son IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:So is that all you texans do...build and repair your fences day after day?Owner of Welding Wiki,The free wiki based resource for weldor's around the world.http://www.weldingwiki.comWe have cookies!
Reply:and oil workIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Hmmm...maybe the pipe fences are really illegal oil lines?Owner of Welding Wiki,The free wiki based resource for weldor's around the world.http://www.weldingwiki.comWe have cookies!
Reply:ssshhhhhhhhIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:This is from today's Dallas Morning NewsFirefighters battled wildfires in eight counties on Saturday. Most of the activity was in or around Travis County in Central Texas, said Traci Weaver, spokeswoman for the Texas Forest Service. DallasNews.com/extra DMN staff photos Photos from readers | Send yours Five-day forecast Two fires in Bastrop County, just east of Austin, damaged one house, spread to another and threatened four homes. Fire was also reported in Burleson County. One of the largest fires was near Paluxy in Hood County, which was started by a welder. The fire was southwest of the Comanche Peak nuclear power plant, but the plant was not threatened, Weaver said. Other fires were being fought in Parker, Hunt, Denton and Gonzales counties. No structures were immediately threatened, nor were there any evacuations, Weaver said. Weaver said firefighters prepared well for the weekend, which includes potential record high temperatures. "A lot of the volunteer fire stations I've talked to have staffed their departments this weekend," Weaver said. "They are getting on to the fires really quick. During the week, that's harder for them to do because they are working their normal jobs."Originally Posted by ctardiSo is that all you texans do...build and repair your fences day after day?
Reply:Who knows, if you spent some time out in the sun you could figure out how to do something unique too. Attached Imageslife is good
Reply:Harv, thats a nice lookin rock you got tehre IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:burn ban in effect in Hale co. too,between Lubbock and Amarillo, 1500 dollar fine if caught welding in a highly fire prone area. in shop,concrete,5 water hoses, and fire Marshal present you might get away with it lol..  someone said something about a smoking ban?? maybe not but 1500 dollar fine if get caught throwing a butt on the ground. also supposedly no BBQ grills either.don't blame them though saw 6 different grass fires today alone thankfully non of them very big
Reply:Drought may last into summer.If April doesn't bring showers, forecaster says, 'things could get ugly'08:20 AM CST on Friday, January 13, 2006By ROY APPLETON / The Dallas Morning News Had enough of these dry times? They well could be around into summer, weather forecasters say. Rain may fall here and there, now and then, perhaps as soon as Sunday night in the Dallas area. But the parched region needs 20 to 25 inches of precipitation in the next six months to end drought conditions 10 months in the making, the National Weather Service says. And with no major weather changes on the horizon, forecasters predict the heat will continue to wither vegetation, dry lakes and leave cattle raisers struggling to get by. "Unfortunately, there's a threat we could stay dry through May or June. That's the significance of this thing," said Victor Murphy, a weather service climatologist in Fort Worth. "April and May are going to be very critical around here," Mr. Murphy said. "If we continue to see below average rainfall, things could get ugly." Ed O'Lenic, a meteorologist with the federal Climate Prediction Center, and other scientists say the rains basically stopped in April across North Texas and beyond in large part because the atmosphere didn't get its usual influx of storm-triggering air: the tropical jet stream. "The atmosphere is choosing to do things for reasons we don't understand," Mr. O'Lenic said. For whatever reason, high-pressure systems established barriers of air over the Southwest that kept the moisture-rich jet stream from the Pacific Ocean flowing north of the region. And what put those systems in place? "Honestly, I don't have a silver-bullet answer," said Mr. Murphy, southern regional manager of the weather service's climate service program. In what could prolong the trend, La Niña conditions are developing in the Pacific Ocean. Marked by unusually cold sea-surface temperatures, the phenomenon typically weakens the tropical jet stream, meaning drier-than-normal weather for the Southwest. Although La Niña is relatively weak, it could keep Texas mostly dry for the next three to six months, Mr. Murphy said. "It's like adding insult to injury." Yet La Niña is only "one possible suspect," said Mr. O'Lenic, who added that random events in the atmosphere could be driving North Texas weather these days. D/FW Airport recorded 18.97 inches of precipitation last year, trailing the annual norm by more than 15 inches. Long gone is the 47.57 inches recorded in 2004, the fourth-wettest year on record. A "rogue weather system" or another remnant tropical storm like that following Hurricane Rita could help North Texas out of its rain deficit, Mr. Murphy said. But the return of a persistent rain-fueling jet stream over Texas first would require a breakup of La Niña, he said – whenever and however that might occur. In the meantime, Dallas water officials are considering requesting voluntary cutbacks months ahead of schedule. And the North Texas Municipal Water District, which serves 61 cities mostly in Collin, Dallas and Rockwall counties, this week moved to Stage 2 of its drought contingency plan, asking customers to reduce water use by 2 percent. Ron Gill, a Texas A&M University extension livestock specialist, said the drought has been particularly tough in hay-producing areas, where some cattle raisers are paying double the normal price for bales and are beginning to cull their herds. "Everybody was hoping they could get to spring," said Dr. Gill, who works with ranchers in 65 North and East Texas counties. "If it stays like it is right now, a lot of them will be out of water long before June," he said. "Many of them will be forced to liquidate a large part of their herds."
Reply:They are basically saying the same thing here. It will hurt us eventually with them shutting down all welding outside. Bexar Co. at least had the sense to allow fire marshal inspections and permits for weld/cut where there is minimal danger....but the Hill Country counties are adamant...none whatsoever.  Even in the bottom of a rock quarry, with no possible way to start a fire, it is still illegal. One problem here is the fine is too weak. It is a class c misdemeanor. Fine is up to 500 bucks max. Just a slap on the wrist. Some idiots are still burning trash here...they are the ones who are starting the fires...not us.
Reply:we got lucky in midland- odessa, they excluded welding from the burn ban
Reply:If the work is in a municipality then you can work around the country burn ban.  I've got a couple of hours work that I have to get done to finish a job.  I got with the local fire chief and we worked out an agreement.We'll wait until we don't have a red flag day and I'll do the work with a spotter and they'll be aware of it.When I went to OKC the other day you could see where grass fires had jumped Interstate 35.  These weren't forest fires with these big coals flying with the greatest of ease.  They were grass fires.  Sorta  makes some of the fire breaks I see look like an ant crawling up an elephant's leg with forced sex on it's mind.life is good
Reply:lol  good one Harv...IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Originally Posted by wroughtn_harvIf the work is in a municipality then you can work around the country burn ban.  I've got a couple of hours work that I have to get done to finish a job.  I got with the local fire chief and we worked out an agreement..
Reply:Originally Posted by DDA52Not here. It all works the same. Banned, period. No contestation. Get caught, pay 500 bucks.They are predicting rain...real rain now for next week..starting on Sunday. With some good rains, maybe they will lift this asinine ban.
Reply:I won't hold my breath for common sense to prevail here. We are under burn bans all the time now. I have seen them refuse burning when it was pouring down rain outside......they just love to weild what little power they have.