stick welding motorcycle frames?

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hi, everybodyi would like to ask you experienced weldors- could it be possible to successfully stick weld motorcycle frames? i know tig would be the best option, but for now i really could not afford it-in the next future i am looking for a fair mig-for now i should work with a cheap einhell stick welder (up to 115 amps)thank you for any suggestion
Reply:Appearance is gonna be paramount on a bike frame, and I doubt you will obtain pretty welds with a cracker box. Find a DC cracker box and a 100 amp tig torch and get after it. A mig would be nice for tacking and fitup but the tig is the only thing I would use for final welding.  However if this is your bike stick it and grind it until you like it.Millermatic 251Century 180 migSpectrum 625 Syncrowave 250DX
Reply:Some older guys aroung here used to use 7018 with a buzz box to rake their necks and weld on hardtails with no problems. The welds look butt ugly though. Asthetics is very important with motorcycles. As suggested, get a dc welder. i have an inverter I am selling, PM me if you ar einterested or see it in the for sale section.
Reply:thank you guys for your advicesi realize that weld appearance is very important in such projects, some grinding could really improve the final look, but i am more concerned about the rigidity of such welds due to safety issues-isn't the heat affected zone too wide using stick welding for such work?i was also thinking to get an oxy-acetylene setup in order to do brass brazing instead of stick for my bike project
Reply:We used to braze frames we were working on.  I've stick welded frames when there wasn't any other way available but if you can't find someone to TIG it then I'd go with brazing.  Stick welding gets too much heat into the frame and we always worried about warping.  Even a little on a bike frame is bad.
Reply:Sorry I am only familiar with US brands, is your machine AC or DC and if it's DC  can it bet set to DC-  ?  If so you can easily add a scratch start tig torch to it for around $100.00 US plus argon and regulator.We teach many students each year to tig and we start them on scratch start tig. Many nice projects have been constructed that way including frames with very nice results. Just a thoughtfeel free to shoot me an email if you have questionsgood luckLast edited by ZTFab; 12-09-2010 at 05:22 PM.
Reply:Because your life may depend on the weld, and since you had to ask, you probably don't have the experience to be doing stick welds on a motorcycle frame.  I would recommend mig welding at the least.  Most race sanctioning bodies don't allow stick welded frames anymore and suggest they be mig welded.
Reply:thank you really very much, your information was very helpful to meunfortunately i have a reallyyyy cheap AC unit (it was around 50 EUR or 60 USD), so i realize that it is not a good idea to threaten my own life by some questionable welds(Einhell is a German tool brand, however those cheaper tools are made, obviously, in China)however, that welder was and it is still my learning platform, i think a good way to start, since it is not so easy to use in comparison to a DC(inverter) unitwhat problems do people usually encounter with scratch start TIG using a lower-end DC unit? isn't there a problem in regulating amperage, since you don't have a pedal to regulate it?i am also concerned how difficult is to learn TIG, MIG is obviously much easier
Reply:Hmm  redneck instincts tell me most y'all arent proficent with a stinger...but then I suppose neither is the original poster.  7018 can make beautiful welds.  6013 would be my choice for this operation.  Make a nice looking bead.  7014 would work too.  Just my two centsIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Ah dint notice the quesiton about dc tig.  Unless your machine has remote control, and most likely unless its a "tig" already machine wont, you wont have amperage control.  This means youre burning like with stick.  You set it and run with it.  More difficult, not impossible though.  I still stick with my E-6013 assesment though.  You will be soo much better off this way. Good luckIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:hello again,i am getting every day more serious about buying a decent mig with the purpose (but not only) of building some bike frames, although my mastering of a cheap stick welder has greatly improvedis spray transfer a proper mode for welding frames or the HAZ is just too wide since the amperage is high (although you can use a high travel speed)? what is the minimum amp when using 0.6 mm (0.025") wire? would it be a 170 amp machine enough (15% duty cycle)?thank you sooo much for any suggestion
Reply:Well, the thing about mig welding is that you lay down the bead pretty fast.  That makes it difficult to do the little round joints you have to do on a bike frame.  That is even more difficult in spray transfer mode which REALLY lays down the metal.  This is why you never see guys welding tubes with a Mig, unless the guy is a robot.  I know a guy who has been welding tubes for years, and he always uses tig (on the tubes, unless he is tacking).  For your application, a tig is the best way to go, in fact, you can do all kinds of welds with a tig (tacks, beads, all manner of joints).  If you are looking for THE most versitile kind of machine, the tig dominates. Its SLOW, but controlled, and very forgiving.  I suggest you try to weld a tube joint with a mig - you will immediately see the problem.As far as the HAZ, on a tube joint, since the metal is thin, it goes all the way through the cross section, so it makes no difference on the size of the HAZ.  Even with the smallest HAZ possible, you will always have one.  Guys worry about that when they are welding stainless steel, but I am assuming your bike tubes are not stainless. PLEASE DON"T MAKE A BIKE OUT OF STAINLESS!!!  It has a much lower endurance limit (much lower fatigue life) than regular 1020 carbon steel.Have fun!  Regards, Nelson
Reply:I have a miller 150 tig, and I use a dynasty 200 pulsed from time to time. But my main welders are a lincoln 100, and a miller 175. I can do tube quite well with a mig, and it is much more forgiving than a tig welder, IMO. If your tube fitment is not excellent, a tig will punch through the edge very quickly. My 150 tig has an amp control dial mounted on the gun; I go up/ down on the fly with it, it helps. The dynasty is pulsed, and can do whatever you like. But it is $$$$$$$$ With a mig, you just get your speed and heat set up, and then touch and go. As for appearance, I will go over an ugly mig weld with a tig to make it look better, then clean it up and go on. Mig is by far the easiest time wise and machine cost. But true as all, the tig looks better. But it's slower, uses gas, and electricity and rod pretty fast. And I do roll cages for trucks, and bumpers and such. So, believe me, you can learn to mig weld around a tube fast and well, with some practice.Last edited by Rojodiablo; 04-13-2006 at 02:34 AM.
Reply:Nelson,you gave me a very useful advice, thank you again. So, what do you think: would it be better for me -with the same budget available-to buy a lower end mig for small jobs and for tack welds (or maybe even for occasional FCAW) and to buy a 110-130 amp stick inverter unit with a tig gun for doing scratch-start tig  instead of buying for the same amount of money a semi-professional mig?best regards
Reply:Rojo, thanks also to you for your post. Now I really don't know what to buy due to the choices available. I should say i am appealed to do tig, however, i am also concerned how fast i could learn to do decent tig welds with a cheap tig setup (scratch start an no remote amp control).
Reply:Originally Posted by cheapstickRojo, thanks also to you for your post. Now I really don't know what to buy due to the choices available. I should say i am appealed to do tig, however, i am also concerned how fast i could learn to do decent tig welds with a cheap tig setup (scratch start an no remote amp control).