Pipeliner woes

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Hello, pleased to meet yall. My name is Casey and I am from NE Texas. Ive recently graduated from Tulsa Welding School this past week and I'm back home in Texas now eager and ready to go to work.Ive been welding off and on since I graduated from high school in 01. I've done structural welding, built large shops and metal buildings. Production welded for International Bus Plant. And done some shop welding building trailers and just general fabrication over the years. I feel i have the skills needed to really make an impact in the trade but have been humbled by my lack of ability to track down the work I'm really looking for. I want to pipeline. No way around it thats what im wanting to do. I'm furiously searching for a rig and trying to dig up info on who's hiring and looking for welders but I just havnt had much luck. There is a pipeline going right through my hometown and ive been able to find the company calling the shots but not who's been contracted to build it. Seems like everyone I call dosent return my calls and every internet site leads me to a dead end. Do i need to just get my rig and drive down the pipeline till i find someone that can point me in the right direction? I realize this industry is like a lot of others. It's all about who you know. I figure the pros here could maybe give me a hint a point me in the right direction but hell at this point any advise/constructive critisism would be appreciated.  Thanks.
Reply:Casey,Did you find a rig yet?I'm not in the line of work you're looking to get into (pipeliner) but your general question has been asked here before and the consensus seems to be a newcomer is not likely to be able to roll up to a jobsite and go to work welding away.  I'm not trying to be negative but rather just passing along what I've read here in the past.  Nevertheless, there's nothing saying you won't be able to do just that if you were to run across the right project.  There's currently alot of expansion projects going on in the refineries down here in SE Texas but I would't know who you would need to contact in an attempt to get signed on.Kinda hard too if you don't have a rig yet.  Have you checked on craigslist in your area?  Or southeasttexas.com?  I see rigs advertised on those from time to time as well as right here in the Shop, Trade, Sell Forum.Good luck and I'll keep my ears and eyes open for you.DuaneMM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Welcome aboard Casey.There drilling a lot of natural gas in western AR.Putting in pipelines to tie the wells together.I don't know who to contact.A butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:If you have no experience with pipeline work you may be better off looking into being hired as a welders helper. This way you can learn the trade first hand, save up some money and eventually purchase your own rig.
Reply:Much as I hate to rain on anyone's parade, I have to second the opinion put forth by StickWeldor87.  You and I have quite a bit in common, and I went through the same frustrations when I wanted to find work as a pipeliner.  The short answer is that field experience as a welder's helper is probably the fastest way to get a job as a pipeline welder.  It's a very insular career, and you won't make much headway until you've paid your dues and demonstrated that you have the skills and dedication.  You might have better luck searching for work out west, but even then I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.In a curious twist of fate, I find myself working in the petroleum industry, but not as a pipeliner.  I can weld pipe, and I do on a daily basis, but not out in the field.  The techniques and filler metals are changing, and welding with self-shielded or gas shielded flux core on high strength low alloy pipe is hard.  Even welding perfect joints with cellulosic rod(XX10) is hard under the best of conditions.I can tell you that working on the firing line is a unique line of work.  There's little margin for error, and the line moves fast.  I have learned that I can do the work, but I don't think I can produce perfection on demand, in the field, every time.  Not yet....Find a job with a pipeline company and work as a helper; save your money.  Even helpers make a good living, and you'll have a chance to see what the job is all about.  Learn what tools you'll need to have, and which ones are a waste of money.  If you've got the basic skills, you'll pick up the special techniques quickly.Last thought, find a copy of API 1104 and take a look at the sections that deal with weld tests.  There's a bunch of basic skills and techniques that you'll need to be familiar with in order to get your foot in the door.  Do some information seeking on temper bead welding, and techniques for repairs and hot tapping procedures for pipes that are in service.  Lastly, start getting familiar with the idea of using self-shielded flux core for fill and cap passes on pipe.  This is becoming more common in new pipeline construction.  Speaking from my own experience, I didn't get enough exposure to this in welding school.  Running good joints with this stuff is a whole lot different than running off the shelf flux core wire or 7018 stick on pipe joints.Good luck, and keep us posted on how you make out.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Sounds like you should be in HR.  It's good to get advice from someone that has been there, and very well atriculated.A butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:Awesome input guys thanks a lot for your insight.To Duane:  Ive not run accross anything just yet.  Ive been checking craiglist and digiplan.com as well as our local thrifty nickel and just general people that may have some leads.  With all the work going on in my area it seems like any available rigs have long since been snatched up and anything that comes available gets grabbed before I find/here about it.  Ive put the word out to all my friends and people who are in the industry and im hoping i can run across something there.  Ive taken care of my credit over the years and have a bank that will work with me so im considering just putting one together myself.  Seems just as cost effective if not a little more time consuming but its looking like the best option.To dab and Stick:  I understand that experience is key often times when working in this field but is that really the only way?  I was under the impression that if i could pass the test i could come right on.  My reasoning for not joining the union and not just getting on as a helper was to bypass the long learning curve and be able to learn more than just one niche of welding and have other processes i could fall back on if need be.Yall very well may be right and if having to start at the bottem as a helper is what i have to do then so be it.  I suppose in the end it will only better me in understanding and learning what all is involved before diving right in but im gonna be sooo pissed if i spent all that money at school when i coulda achieved the same thing by just working as a helper for a little while lol.
Reply:The bottom is the best place to start unless you get a job where you can talk the talk and don't have to walk the walk.I've been there several times.A butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:Did you go the Pipeliners Union welding school in Tulsa? If not you should check into the Pipeliners union..I think its local 798 and covers the entire country as far as pipeline work goes. Check into that. I know they pay their hands VERY well. They have had tons of work in recent times...I have no clue what they have had in the past 3 months however. But give them a call and find out.http://www.local798.org/'Mike
Reply:I'll do that Mike.  Thanks.If the hoods down....Just turn around.
Reply:Have you found what pub their drinking at????   It's very thirsty work indeed.Go talk to the boy's,  offer to do a few day's offsiding for them for free just to see.   If they think your any good they'll talk to the ramrod about you doing a test.It's not hard to setup a rig yourself, I'd run with a Miller pipepro facing left, a couple of 9" and a 5" grinder and that's it.   If your hoping for tie in welding then a gas set plus pipemate and a tig set as well.Down this way all that is supplied, I'd walk onto a job with my boots and that's about it, rigs etc are all supplied by the main contractor.Oh and a set of wedges I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:sparks a flyingI don't know what you are looking for as far as a welder, but if you are willing to travel, you might find a good price on a welder in Northern Alberta.  There has been a recent slowdown in the Petroleum industry there and you might find some good deals online.  Also one thing that would help you is the value of the US Dollar.   Right now the exchange rate is such that one US dollar is = to $1.27 in Canadian Dollars.  It might not sound like much but that would mean that $2000 USDs would = $2551.32 CADs,.  As I have read this thread, it seems to me you have got some excellent advice!  As I read what others have written, I have had a few thoughts of my own that I thought I should share with you.  I have worked in construction and maintenance most of my life,  but I will admit freely that I do not have the training (or the experience) in welding that you do.  I more dabble in it at this point but look forward to the day when I am good at it!   However the nature of what I do has in the past put me in kind of the same boat that you are in now  If you have to go back and go through the apprenticeship, go into it with an attitude that is humble and willing to learn!  Yes you may be able to say I already know how to do this, but you may pick up some new info or learn some new techniques, and if nothing else consider it a chance to get more practice and get even better at welding.  And when it comes to attitude, if you are humble and teachable and are willing to go back and start over again,   that humble attitude will make you a stronger candidate when it comes to getting the big job because it will show that you are teachable, and don't give up when the going gets tough!  This is the kind of character people like to see in someone when they are looking for new workers!  Having that kind of reputation will pay off big time down the road!  Good luck in your endeavor and keep your hood down and your chin up!!  Sooner or later something will open up!Last edited by 1Normy; 11-23-2008 at 02:24 AM.Here is what I have so Far:Miller:Shop Master 300 A A/C D/CS 22a Wire FeederRFC-14 Tig PedalHF-251D High Freq. UnitProfax 250 A Mig GunVictor RegulatorsHarris:63-2 torch Cutting Attachment 49-3making home built tig cooler
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doIn a curious twist of fate, I find myself working in the petroleum industry, but not as a pipeliner.  I can weld pipe, and I do on a daily basis, but not out in the field.  The techniques and filler metals are changing, and welding with self-shielded or gas shielded flux core on high strength low alloy pipe is hard.  Even welding perfect joints with cellulosic rod(XX10) is hard under the best of conditions.Lastly, start getting familiar with the idea of using self-shielded flux core for fill and cap passes on pipe.  This is becoming more common in new pipeline construction.  Speaking from my own experience, I didn't get enough exposure to this in welding school.  Running good joints with this stuff is a whole lot different than running off the shelf flux core wire or 7018 stick on pipe joints.Good luck, and keep us posted on how you make out.
Reply:I wish you well in your search. Back in the day when and where I grew up as long as you could show that you could run 7018 uphill you would never look more than 3 days for a job. Clearly things are different now days. You can join a union and take whatever comes down the road. Be ready to work your a$$ offand possibly wait for work for time to time.I won't argue for or against unions like anything as many people have done well as been screwed by them. The frist thing you need is a good resume. Many talented people in many fields can't write a resume that will get passed the first desk it crosses. You don't need to have one professionally done. The computer you're using probably has resume making software on it. Make it short and sweet . Condense it down to 2 pages max.  Don't try to baffle them with bs,Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:Originally Posted by wirehuntHave you found what pub their drinking at????   It's very thirsty work indeed.Go talk to the boy's,  offer to do a few day's offsiding for them for free just to see.   If they think your any good they'll talk to the ramrod about you doing a test.It's not hard to setup a rig yourself, I'd run with a Miller pipepro facing left, a couple of 9" and a 5" grinder and that's it.   If your hoping for tie in welding then a gas set plus pipemate and a tig set as well.Down this way all that is supplied, I'd walk onto a job with my boots and that's about it, rigs etc are all supplied by the main contractor.Oh and a set of wedges
Reply:If you were talking to me, thanks.  I couldn't hack desk job any longer.  I like welding too much. Originally Posted by Magnetic MechanicSounds like you should be in HR.  It's good to get advice from someone that has been there, and very well atriculated.
Reply:Pipeline construction in Russia and China is going all self-shielded flux core; run downhill.  There's plenty of Natural gas pipeline in the States that's been done 6010 downhill root, fill and cap with self-shielded flux core(uphill).  I just read an article about a line run from Cheyenne, WY to someplace in Kansas that was FCAW fill and cap.Gas-shielded flux core is definitely easier to run in a shop, but it can be run in the field with some kind of shelter over the welding area.  Personally, I find that cleanup on SS-FCAW is just as much work as stick welding.  There's just fewer stops and restarts.FCAW filler is improving all the time, and even I can run flat fill and cap downhill with it. There's product used on the pipeline that isn't sold in LWS.  It only goes right to the contractors doing pipeline work. $$$$.The thing that keeps me away from working as a pipeliner is the fact that I don't think I'm fast enough for consistent enough to keep up with the experienced hands in the field.  That and I like a variety to my work, and running the same joint day in and day out isn't my cup of tea. Originally Posted by wirehuntEvery time I've seen the wire come out on a line it goes pear shaped so most don't bother, in the shop fine, but real world, nup.
Reply:It's probably not the only way to get into the field.  But it's the only way that seemed reasonable to me.  Better to watch and learn by doing so, than to jump in and get in over your head; I think.There's a lot more involved in pipelining these days that just being about to run 6010 downhill or 7018 uphill.  The materials are changing, and the welding is getting more challenging.  Welding large diameter X70 pipe and lower strength pipe isn't too difficult.  But the new construction is switching over to X80 and it won't be too long before the pipelines are X100 or X120.  (FYI, for those who aren't familiar, API 5L X70 is pipe with a yield strength of 70,000PSI.  Same for the higher number grades)  X80 pipe is being used on several projects in Canada, and will be seeing more use in the USA soon.  China and Russia are leading the pack in making these changes in pipe material.The filler metals and techniques for welding higher strength pipe are getting complicated.  You have to monitor preheat and interpass temps.  You have to watch how fast you run stringers or weaves.  Sometimes you can't use weaves because they pump too much heat into the steel.  Filler metal is more sensitive to arc length or stickout, travel and work angles, etc.  You get these things wrong and the weld looks good, but it has trapped porosity or the HAZ is too soft.  The pipe looks fine, but doesn't have to toughness at low temperatures that it might need.You can't learn this stuff in school yet.  You can by watching someone who's doing it, and that's about the only way I know of to get the knowledge you need to be successful as a pipeline welder.  I think it would be better to spend a few months working as a helper and learning this stuff, than to take a bench test and get on the line, where you don't have the knowledge you need.  Screw up welding in the field, and you may do damage to your reputation that is difficult or impossible to fix.Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject.  I wish you better luck in breaking into this line of work. Originally Posted by Sparks A FlyinAwesome input guys thanks a lot for your insight.To dab and Stick:  I understand that experience is key often times when working in this field but is that really the only way?  I was under the impression that if i could pass the test i could come right on.  My reasoning for not joining the union and not just getting on as a helper was to bypass the long learning curve and be able to learn more than just one niche of welding and have other processes i could fall back on if need be.Yall very well may be right and if having to start at the bottem as a helper is what i have to do then so be it.  I suppose in the end it will only better me in understanding and learning what all is involved before diving right in but im gonna be sooo pissed if i spent all that money at school when i coulda achieved the same thing by just working as a helper for a little while lol.
Reply:Hop over to Shop Floor Talk there is a turn key rig for sale there that should have every thing you will ever need.
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doYou can't learn this stuff in school yet. .
Reply:JTMcC,Check out the article listed below.http://www.touchoilandgas.com/extens...y-a5677-1.html"in 2004...Cheyenne Plains Gas Pipeline Project. The 380-mile, 36-inch natural gas pipeline runs from the Cheyenne hub in Colorado to existing pipelines near Greensburg, Kan...""...The Cheyenne Plains Gas Pipeline Project was the first major pipeline in the U.S. to use X-80 grade pipe. Already a standard in other parts of the world, the X-80 pipe provides higher strength with a thinner wall...."You're correct that I mis-spoke in regards to pipeline construction.  Mainline welds are  made manually or with MIG automatic welding systems here in the USA.  Tie-ins and repairs are being made with fluxcore, and I'm guessing it won't be too long before mainline construction is done with fluxcore also.There's a compressor station being built in Lebanon, OH; as a part of the REX pipeline project.  I know they're using Lincoln and Hobart FCAW on that job for fill and cap.  FCAW is being used in other countries for mainline construction.  Time will tell in regards to X100 and X120 pipe.  X80 is a for-gone conclusion though.  Here's another example."JFE Steel Books Order from TransCanada for 52,000 Metric Tons of Grade X80 UOE Steel Pipe"  http://www.jfe-steel.co.jp/en/release/2008/080303.htmlWe'll have to agree to disagree about the fate of X100 and X120 steels.  I say the benefits in terms of cost savings(lighter, less expensive) will outweigh the penalties(poorer weldability, higher cost than lower strength pipe)  The pipe metallurgy is there.  Looks like they've been working on it for ~10 years now.  Coming up with suitable welding procedures and materials has yet to be resolved...but the money saved will pay for the R&D.  Here's an example of the research going on for X100 pipe:  (warning, may induce sleep in the unprepared mind...)http://www.europipe.com/files/ep_tp51_03en.pdfWe'll also have to disagree over learning this stuff in a classroom setting.  Tulsa's welding school may teach welding procedures for HSLA pipe, but I think you'd hesitate to send a new graduate right out to the firing line.  Yes?  Learning begins when the weldor leaves the classroom....You convinced me a few months ago that jumping into pipeline welding wasn't practical without going through some time as a helper first.  I'm only agreeing with you on this point, and suggesting that there's a lot of new tech that an aspiring pipeline weldor needs to know, and that the best place to learn it is by watching and learning in the field...Having spent a few weeks welding on big pipe in a shop, I can't imagine doing it as a novice, in the field, under the real world time and quality expected for pipeline construction. I've discovered that I enjoy the variety that comes with doing repair work, or small scale construction and fabrication.  So I doubt I'll ever work as a pipeline welder in the field....As always, I appreciate your advice and insight.  Don't take my disagreements in any way other than a respectful difference in opinion. Originally Posted by JTMcCPipelines are not being welded with flux core wire in the U.S., the tie ins ARE being made with flux core downhill or dual shield uphill on automatic jobs. The general concensus is that automatic will die out after the current boom is over. Auto cost's more per mile than stick welding. And Lincoln is pretty hot and heavy on stick consumables for use on higher grades of pipe.I disagree on the coming of X100 and X120 pipe, it has proven to have too many downsides to outweigh the upsides in my opinion.JTMcC.
Reply:I'm not talking about the Tulsa School of Welding, I'm talking about the National School maintained and run by the Pipeliners Union. When a welder test's out of that school, they have made the 798 entrance test, they've learned to cut and weld an inverted branch test, they've learned to take a sleeve test, they've run flux core downhill and dual shield uphill. These guys are sent out by 798 on 798 manned jobs and are as prepared as an individual can get. They have pipeline experience as a helper before being admitted. Those welders ARE dispatched directly to jobs and most of them do end up in the firing line.What spreads do you know of that have run X100 or X120 pipe in America? How many spreads have run X80 over the last 5 years that you know of? I read that article when it came out, Everyone I know is a pipeliner. In the course of a month I talk to people working on many different spreads, and my take reflects the industry as it actually is right now, not what the trade magazine guys predict the future will be. Again, this is the world I work in, your take appears to be based on trade magazine articles and foriegn practices.The United States invented the cross country transmission business. There is no end to the high tech experimental things being done in other countries, but that doesn't mean we will adopt any of those methods, we certainly haven't in the past 50 years. If you had of listened to the trade mags several years ago, instead of believing all line pipe was going to be X120, you'de be believing we were going to be using the Russian explosive welding on ppipelines of today. But were not. Before that you'de have to believe them when they said mig was going to replace stick on the row. It hasn't yet, and they were saying that when I was a little kid in the 60's.There is always  "latest and greatest" speculation in this field, before it was the items you are talking about today, cargo pipelines were the coming thing, then slurry lines were going to transport all of the coal in the country, automatic was going to take over, SST was going to take over, mig and explosion as I said, the welding foreman will be zipping around with a "jet pack", our welding rigs will be hovercraft, it goes on and on. I'm still making a living with a wheeled one ton with a Lincoln welding machine burning stick rod.My take on this work is that when it actually happens, when we see it in use in the field on a wide spread basis,then I believe it. JTMcC.
Reply:I've heard how wonderful this wire is, been on a couple of jobs that they where using it for positional welds. A mate and myself climbed into a butt (1800 id) that was set for the wire with a can of 5P's we found laying around on a job a couple of year's ago, the butt was set for wire not stoving but we played about with it anyway,  it went political and we where stopped when we started capping and the guy's with the wire where still putting their root in, and these guy's had been on the job for some time so new what they where doing.In a workshop the other day they where bang 6" sch 120 butt's out in 20 minutes with the wire, rotated.Everything has it's place, I just don't believe wire should be used in the field.And yes JTMcC, I agree that thing's are different between countries, that's why places like this are so interesting, seeing how it's done a few km's, opps I mean miles  away.   I'd love to come over your neck of the woods and run a few rods just to see how you guy's do it.I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:Im a pipeline welder in East Texas and have a rig for hire, may can help you with work depending on your experience, you can call me at 903-738-5525-Rex[/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Get the money while its there
Reply:Originally Posted by wirehuntEverything has it's place, I just don't believe wire should be used in the field..Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_do Don't take my disagreements in any way other than a respectful difference in opinion.
Reply:Sounds like you are a 798 hand. Like I said in my post check out that site and check into what it takes to get into that union. It may be open enrollment and it may be limited to certain times of the year or a certain day every month that applications are taken. Ironworkers Local 15'Mike
Reply:I think we both agree that aspiring pipewelders benefit from on-the-job training as a helper.  I'm sure that experienced helpers who attend 798's national school are fully qualified and they hit the ground running in the field.  But they're the exception to the rule.  Most other graduates of welding schools(vo-tech, or private, like Lincoln or Hobart) are fresh out of high school, with zero prior experience.  These folks aren't ready to work as pipeliners without gathering some experience as a helper.I don't know of any spreads that have run X100 or X120 in the states.  Neither grade is even officially a part of API specs, yet.  The only place I know of where you can get pipe with those properties is Europe or Asia.  I predict that X80 pipe will be very common in NA within a few years.  Pipe mills like JFE and Europipe are sinking enormous amounts of money into R&D, and equipment needed to produce 'X100' grade pipe.I hear what you're saying about crazy new welding methods like explosive welding.  And I'm not trying to suggest that stick welding is going to die out.  Far from it.  There will always be a need for stick welding.  Here in the states, stick welding is much better for rig welders and small contractors.  But for the big construction firms, or the state run companies(like they have in China), who can afford huge capital layouts, MIG or automatic welding makes sense for repeative work like girth welds on mainline pipe.  You mentioned Lincoln's STT process.  This and Miller's RMD process are being used for root passes along with FCAW in China on pipeline work there.  Again, for repeatitive work, there's a niche for these technologies.   My own experience is that FCAW is becoming common in Europe and Asia.  These parts of the world are ahead of the US in transitioning to higher strength pipe.  Countries in both areas are exploring gas fields that are much more remote.  As a result, they're looking to run pipelines at higher pressures so they need to build fewer compressor stations along the line.  High strength pipe allows them to do this without increasing the pipe wall thickness.  Keeping the pipe wall thickness the same keeps transportation costs and welding costs flat.  You're right in saying that it will take longer, or perhaps not happen at all here in the states.  It's hard to locate a pipe mill here in the states that can make 36" dia or larger high strength pipe.  Until somebody starts making it in volume here in NA, it's won't get used unless the benefits outweigh the cost to ship it here from Japan or Europe.  The transcanada pipeline is going to be the first really big run of X80 pipeline here in NA.  They're bringing pipe all the way from Japan, I believe because they can't get the pipe they need here in the states.Alright, all this has run pretty far from the original topic.  My apologies for hijacking the thread.JTMcC, we can start a new thread if you'd like to continue debating pipeline tech.Regards,Dave Originally Posted by JTMcCI'm not talking about the Tulsa School of Welding, I'm talking about the National School maintained and run by the Pipeliners Union. When a welder test's out of that school, they have made the 798 entrance test, they've learned to cut and weld an inverted branch test, they've learned to take a sleeve test, they've run flux core downhill and dual shield uphill. These guys are sent out by 798 on 798 manned jobs and are as prepared as an individual can get. They have pipeline experience as a helper before being admitted. Those welders ARE dispatched directly to jobs and most of them do end up in the firing line.What spreads do you know of that have run X100 or X120 pipe in America? How many spreads have run X80 over the last 5 years that you know of? I read that article when it came out, Everyone I know is a pipeliner. In the course of a month I talk to people working on many different spreads, and my take reflects the industry as it actually is right now, not what the trade magazine guys predict the future will be. Again, this is the world I work in, your take appears to be based on trade magazine articles and foriegn practices.The United States invented the cross country transmission business. There is no end to the high tech experimental things being done in other countries, but that doesn't mean we will adopt any of those methods, we certainly haven't in the past 50 years. If you had of listened to the trade mags several years ago, instead of believing all line pipe was going to be X120, you'de be believing we were going to be using the Russian explosive welding on ppipelines of today. But were not. Before that you'de have to believe them when they said mig was going to replace stick on the row. It hasn't yet, and they were saying that when I was a little kid in the 60's.There is always  "latest and greatest" speculation in this field, before it was the items you are talking about today, cargo pipelines were the coming thing, then slurry lines were going to transport all of the coal in the country, automatic was going to take over, SST was going to take over, mig and explosion as I said, the welding foreman will be zipping around with a "jet pack", our welding rigs will be hovercraft, it goes on and on. I'm still making a living with a wheeled one ton with a Lincoln welding machine burning stick rod.My take on this work is that when it actually happens, when we see it in use in the field on a wide spread basis,then I believe it. JTMcC.
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_do  But for the big construction firms, or the state run companies(like they have in China), who can afford huge capital layouts, MIG or automatic welding makes sense for repeative work like girth welds on mainline pipe. Regards,Dave
Reply:Originally Posted by JTMcCI'm not talking about the Tulsa School of Welding, I'm talking about the National School maintained and run by the Pipeliners Union. When a welder test's out of that school, they have made the 798 entrance test, they've learned to cut and weld an inverted branch test, they've learned to take a sleeve test, they've run flux core downhill and dual shield uphill. These guys are sent out by 798 on 798 manned jobs and are as prepared as an individual can get. They have pipeline experience as a helper before being admitted. Those welders ARE dispatched directly to jobs and most of them do end up in the firing line.What spreads do you know of that have run X100 or X120 pipe in America? How many spreads have run X80 over the last 5 years that you know of? I read that article when it came out, Everyone I know is a pipeliner. In the course of a month I talk to people working on many different spreads, and my take reflects the industry as it actually is right now, not what the trade magazine guys predict the future will be. Again, this is the world I work in, your take appears to be based on trade magazine articles and foriegn practices.The United States invented the cross country transmission business. There is no end to the high tech experimental things being done in other countries, but that doesn't mean we will adopt any of those methods, we certainly haven't in the past 50 years. If you had of listened to the trade mags several years ago, instead of believing all line pipe was going to be X120, you'de be believing we were going to be using the Russian explosive welding on ppipelines of today. But were not. Before that you'de have to believe them when they said mig was going to replace stick on the row. It hasn't yet, and they were saying that when I was a little kid in the 60's.There is always  "latest and greatest" speculation in this field, before it was the items you are talking about today, cargo pipelines were the coming thing, then slurry lines were going to transport all of the coal in the country, automatic was going to take over, SST was going to take over, mig and explosion as I said, the welding foreman will be zipping around with a "jet pack", our welding rigs will be hovercraft, it goes on and on. I'm still making a living with a wheeled one ton with a Lincoln welding machine burning stick rod.My take on this work is that when it actually happens, when we see it in use in the field on a wide spread basis,then I believe it. JTMcC.
Reply:Originally Posted by JTMcCNo, it doesn't. Mainline construction, in the U.S. today, is welded cheaper using stick than it is usig auto, mig, stt or any other current process.The pipeline contractors in this country are large and can afford any process they choose. But stick is cheaper. I can't make it any more plain than that.Anyone who has worked a few years in the pipeline industry will be able to tell you that production rules. Anything that can make the process faster, will be done by the contractors, mandaded by the gas companies, and acepted by the workforce.Stick is faster and cheaper today than automatic. That's the bottom line, literally.Cost per weld, using the bug, is considerably higher than cost per weld using common stick rod.JTMcC.If you consider this a major hijack, you can email me on the topic because it's one of my favorites.
Reply:Ahhhh,,,,,,   but outside, you also have to consider the additional costs of shelters, windbreaks, the manpower and lag-time involved in maintaining and moving, plus the need to keep the extra machinery clean, dry and in operating condition in oftentimes hostile environments, etc. etc.  I don't do pipelines, but I do work outside, not hard for me to figure out what JT is saying.  And with a limited, given wall thickness of pipe, there's only a certain amount of amps/wirespeed you can crank up, any more and you can't control the bead, and weld quality suffers.  More costs.
Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lumDual shield is flux core. And there is lots of pipe that is mig welded in the field.
Reply:If mig is "WAY faster" , why don't they sub-arc the pipes? It's way faster than mig. BUT, it's only for flat work, if you can turn the pipe on rolls. Like in a fab shop. Unless you are a pipe welder (cross country ) i wouldn't argue with the guys who are .Last edited by Roy Hodges; 11-24-2008 at 10:50 PM.Reason: This refers to #31[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lumMig is way more faster and has  much higher deposition rate.
Reply:Originally Posted by mark8310Ahhhh,,,,,,   but outside, you also have to consider the additional costs of shelters, windbreaks, the manpower and lag-time involved in maintaining and moving, plus the need to keep the extra machinery clean, dry and in operating condition in oftentimes hostile environments, etc. etc.  I don't do pipelines, but I do work outside, not hard for me to figure out what JT is saying.  And with a limited, given wall thickness of pipe, there's only a certain amount of amps/wirespeed you can crank up, any more and you can't control the bead, and weld quality suffers.  More costs.
Reply:CRC Evans welds pipelines everyday with automatic equipment. http://www.crc-evans.com/AW/home.htm --Gol'
Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lumCRC Evans welds pipelines everyday with automatic equipment. http://www.crc-evans.com/AW/home.htm
Reply:I don't work in pipe just everything else my post wasn't to prove who welds it but to prove that automatic processes are used daily in pipe.Last edited by Go1lum; 11-24-2008 at 11:23 PM. --Gol'
Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lumI don't work in pipe just everything else .
Reply:Never ceases to amaze me.! Here's who your argueing with JT.Your Age:    19How did you find WeldingWeb.com:    Searching for welding forums!Biography:    Student, welidng for last 5 years, worked in many shops.Location:    Mesick MichiganInterests:    Welding, Dirtbikes, Snowmobiles, M'girl,Occupation:    Full Time StudentI especially like the  PHP Code:Student,welidngforlast5years,workedinmanyshops
Reply:JTMcCThis is the line they put through my brother's farm in ND this fall.  Would youprovide some narrative?  Sorry I don't have pictures of the two white tents placed over the joints or the welding machine.  It was an automated process of some type.  They said the pipe came from China and all the welds were Xrayed.Thanks.Bob seND Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lumMig is way more faster and has  much higher deposition rate.
Reply:Sorry but,   in fact you go talk to some lads that do the wire in a spooling shop and see what they say about using it real world.I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:Sub arc is used in the pipe mills to weld seams on UOE or spiral seamed pipe.  It's either sub arc, or they use electric resistance welding. Originally Posted by Roy HodgesIf mig is "WAY faster" , why don't they sub-arc the pipes? It's way faster than mig. BUT, it's only for flat work, if you can turn the pipe on rolls. Like in a fab shop. Unless you are a pipe welder (cross country ) i wouldn't argue with the guys who are .
Reply:i'm not 19. and just because i may be young doesn't mean i don't know anything. How many of you can do weld sizing calculations? Can you program robots, lasers, and other equipment. Would you know how to set up and analize a UT test if no on is around or know to shoot an xray? --Gol'
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Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lumi'm not 19. and just because i may be young doesn't mean i don't know anything. How many of you can do weld sizing calculations? Can you program robots, lasers, and other equipment. Would you know how to set up and analize a UT test if no on is around or know to shoot an xray?
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Reply:Go1lum earned a one month ban for being himself, crude, insulting, and condescending. Come back in a month and continue to act that way, so we can ban you permanently.Yup