True Noob: Lookin for advice

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Hi all I'm new here and I'm lookin for advice on getting into some welding.I'm a car guy, and want to get a welder to try some welding of my own on my car restoration projects.  I have never owned or used a welder.  So I'm completely green here...From what little research i've done, seems like a mig welder would be the way to go.  beyond that, i'm pretty much lost.  I can go with either a 115 or 230 volt welder, so that's not a limiting factor.I recently talked to someone selling a Hobart Handler 135, he wanted $500 for the welder, cart, and 1 tank.  Sounded alittle high to me.  On top of that, I'm not sure if that would handle most any jobs I would need it to... maybe it would though...  What to you guys think? Thanks for the Help!Matt (From KY)
Reply:Since you have the option to go 220v thats what I would suggest. You can always turn down a larger mig, to run thin metal, but you can't crank up a 110v unit to weld heavier stuff.Little 110v migs are great for sheet metal with 75/25 gas and .023 solid wire, but at best they will do 1/8" for a 140 amp unit with gas, and a bit thicker if you use FC wire. On the other hand most "low powered" 220v migs are rated to do 3/8" steel with gas or FC, and if you move up above 180-200 amps you can do even thicker steel. Also if you ever think about the posibility of doing alum, you will want a machine that takes a spoolgun. Many of the older small 110v migs won't, and even the newer ones that do will need to be run at max to do thin alum, 14g or so. Alum needs more amps than steel of the same thickness. Most 220v migs either come set up to run a spool gun, or aren't that hard to add the adapter to. Usually you can do up to 1/4" alum with a 180-200 amp 220v mig, and if you go thinner you have more room to make adjustments with the higher powered machines.If you do a search, you'll tend to find that the majority of folks recommend a 220v mig over the 110v units since it's very easy to quickly out grow a 110v machine..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I'd say read, practice, ask questions, read some more, practice, ask questions, repeat.I'm by no means an expert welder....far from it.  But, I did start out kinda like you...I think.  Had things I knew I wanted to do...knew I needed to weld....and then found out I needed to learn A LOT about welding, fit up, fabrication, etc. before I could get to my projects.Check out your local welding supply shop.  Ones by me have booths where you can test out their equipment....for free.  Can't beat that.
Reply:Thanks guys.Another question:  How much electric service should the garage be set up for to handle a decent welder?  Planning on upgrading the garage's service to 100 amp.  I'm sure this limits the my options in terms of buying a welder... What is that limit?
Reply:I think you need to give a little more info on what your going to be welding.  are you going to be welding sheet metal only?  are you going to be welding frame members?  are you going to be fabricating out of heavy gage tube?If all your going to be welding is sheet metal i really would look a the tig process.  you get a much smaller prettier weld that is much esier to deal with on bodywork.  plus there is less affect of heat warping on sheet metal with this process.  if you use mig on this and it will work fine granted but you will get a weld that will require much more work to prep.  also you run a much higher risk of distortion.  when the metal does distort witha mig it is much harder to shape it back out where it needs to be again.  this is however just my opinion and in sure i will get much debate on my comments
Reply:I was in your exact position several years ago before I bought my first welder. I ended up with a MM175 and it has served me very well. I think the small to mid sized 220v machines are perfect for the auto guys. Now I've moved onto other things and wish I had a bigger mig. Don't get a 110v machine, they are simply too limited, even for auto (can't* build an engine hoist or stand, can't weld frame material, etc). Small 220v should be your minimum. 100 amp service to your garage is plenty for a single hobbyist. Your compressor will probably still pull more than your welder unless you get something really big.*Edit: I shouldn't say you can't, just not nearly as practical.Last edited by slagmatic; 02-01-2010 at 02:48 PM.
Reply:I have a 100 amp sub panel in the garage. It will run most tools without any issues. My mig's, tig, plasma and all seldom run at the same time, and usually don't draw more than 40-50 amps. I've got lots left over for lights, the saw, the grinders etc.You start running into issues when you start looking at older industrial transformer machines. These, like the old Miller 330A/BP's AC/DC tig's are tanks with tons of capacity, and sell dirt cheap used, but they want 100-125 amp input on 220v. Still even with that 100 amp will run them well. If you want to add AC, electric heat, a big 220v air compressor to run plasma you can eat up the "reserve" capacity of a 100 amp panel real quick especially if you want to have two guys doing things at once, like plasma cut and weld..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Answerin Q's:HotGlue,I want the capability to do anything from sheet metal work to frame work and chassis fabrication.  maybe even some things like roll cage (tubing) welding. probably minimal body work... floor pans and other things that don't need to be real "pretty."slagmatic,Thanks for the info, that helps a lot.  Makes me feel alot better about runnin a welder.  I was startin to have my doubts!  no more. thanks!DSW,When running a welder, I imagine i would not be running much, if any, other electric tools/equipment.  So sounds like i'll be perfectly fine! I've been eyeballing some Hobart 220 V models. the Handler 187 and Handler 210 are the two I'm lookin at hardest right now.  seems like they would handle most anything I would need them to... Not yet to the buying stage though.  long way to go before i get there.  plenty of research to do.Thanks again!Matt
Reply:Originally Posted by PontiacMattHi all I'm new here and I'm lookin for advice on getting into some welding.I'm a car guy, and want to get a welder to try some welding of my own on my car restoration projects.  I have never owned or used a welder.  So I'm completely green here...From what little research i've done, seems like a mig welder would be the way to go.  beyond that, i'm pretty much lost.  I can go with either a 115 or 230 volt welder, so that's not a limiting factor.I recently talked to someone selling a Hobart Handler 135, he wanted $500 for the welder, cart, and 1 tank.  Sounded alittle high to me.  On top of that, I'm not sure if that would handle most any jobs I would need it to... maybe it would though...  What to you guys think? Thanks for the Help!Matt (From KY)
Reply:Originally Posted by PontiacMattAnswerin Q's:HotGlue,I want the capability to do anything from sheet metal work to frame work and chassis fabrication.  maybe even some things like roll cage (tubing) welding. probably minimal body work... floor pans and other things that don't need to be real "pretty."slagmatic,Thanks for the info, that helps a lot.  Makes me feel alot better about runnin a welder.  I was startin to have my doubts!  no more. thanks!DSW,When running a welder, I imagine i would not be running much, if any, other electric tools/equipment.  So sounds like i'll be perfectly fine! I've been eyeballing some Hobart 220 V models. the Handler 187 and Handler 210 are the two I'm lookin at hardest right now.  seems like they would handle most anything I would need them to... Not yet to the buying stage though.  long way to go before i get there.  plenty of research to do.Thanks again!Matt
Reply:sounds like a mig may be a good choice for the range of work your going to do.  whatever mig you decide on i would make sure it has infinatly adjustable voltage.  i really dont like the ones that have whats called tap settings for the voltage.  they tap off of the transformer at different points for different heat settings.  you get a selector that has 4-6 different heat settings and thats all you get.  with infinate control you get anywhere from 0 to max anywhere you need it.  you can see this would be nice for fine tuning.  especially if you live in a place where your line voltage is different and not constant through the day.  you can check this with a digital multimeter and just take some readings all throughout the day and see if your line voltage stays pretty constant or if it fluctuates at different times.You would be supprised just how little of a line voltage change would affect your welder setting after all it is a conversion factor in the transformer right????  I had a problem with this once and couldnt understand why my machine would weld great when i set it up in the morning and when i came back and did the same job in the afternoon it would weld different and i would have to adjust it.  i monitored the line voltage an noticed there was a 10 volt difference from the morning to the afternoon.