My ring rollers weighs 200lbs

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I have been working on this roller for a while.  It works well. I built it specifically for bending cap rail.  I have rolled 1x2in tube 16g the hard way without hesitation.  I don't have a lot of sacrificial metal,... just know it does what I want.  The motor is 1-1/8 hp.  It is from a harbor freight winch.It is constructed on 3/8 in plate.  with 1in sq bracing inside.  There is more internal bracing than in the photo showing the inside.The shafts are 1.5 in. round.The roller dies are 3in dia x 2.5 inch cold rolled.  I machined the dies on my harbor freight 9x20 lathe.  I broached dies on my small harbor freight mill/drill. I need help figuring how to align the motor.  Also, I have never seen dies for rolling cap.  Does anybody have photos or dimensions for dies? Attached ImagesLast edited by tapwelder; 09-01-2006 at 11:04 PM.
Reply:Man 'o man Tap!! If those are 3 inch rollers then that thing has to be at least 3 foot long.   It's gotta be heavy.  I'll bet it is more elaborate than what you see at a glance. Should roll just about anything you can feed into it. Good work. Nice project.
Reply:Nice job, tapwelder, but I don't understand the use of pillow blocks on the lower shafts instead of plate-mounts.  What is the structure supporting the pillow blocks?awright
Reply:Thanks guys,Awright, my initial design was a roller with no front or back plate, just a skeleton.  I wasn't sure whether I would have an open or closed set up.  Also, I was going to make them adjustable.  I was shooting for something very functional with minimal material.  The bearing are supported on 1/4" angle welded to the 3/8" plate.  I used a dial indicator to determine flex.  I found that the flex was only around the slide assembly.  As pressure was applied the wall/plates flex, causing the middle shaft to angle upward.  I eliminate flex by adding additional support throughout.I completed one job with it.  I rolled some channel for a gate.  I rolled the channel directly on the gate.  I have two more jobs that need to be rolled.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderI have been working on this roller for a while.  It works well. I built it specifically for bending cap rail.  I have rolled 1x2in tube 16g the hard way without hesitation.  I don't have a lot of sacrificial metal,... just know it does what I want.I need help figuring how to align the motor.
Reply:Man that looks great and im sure it will work for top rail, looks like your heading the right direction.justweldit41H2osStickers.comMiller Syncrowave 250 Hi-FreqMiller 252 migHypertherm Powermax105Miller Maxstar 200Hypertherm 1650Tourchmate 1   4' X 8'Hossfeld Bender30W Laser Engraver
Reply:Nice work Tap. Harbor Freight tools have always worked well for me.About aligning the motor: Maybe try driving the chain with the motor instead of one of the shafts. That way you can multiply the torque, and adjust the chain slack, without having to worry about the alignment so much. It might work better overall than a flex drive coupling.Maybe drive the third die too.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderThanks . . . For my purposes I don't think I need power to the third shaft.  Though If I did drive it would I add a tension pulley to take up slack as the roller came down or would I need a seperate motor?
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderFor my purposes I don't think I need power to the third shaft.  Though If I did drive it would I add a tension pulley to take up slack as the roller came down or would I need a seperate motor.
Reply:Sorry I Guess I type a little slow.Patrick
Reply:While you guys have forged ahead to other topics, I'm sitting here trying to get my mind around tapwelder's statement, "I rolled the channel directly on the gate."  Did you mean directly on the job?  I'm having difficulty visualizing the gate going through your machine.How do you do that?awright
Reply:I rolled the channel directly on the gate
Reply:the commercial ring rollers that have all 3 shafts driven usually use 3 seperate hydraulic motors, one for each shaft. Dont know if they are run at slightly different speeds, but I kinda doubt it.I have a pretty big commercially made one, with only 2 rolls driven, and it uses the motor to drive the chain, with sprockets on the two lower rolls, and a spring loaded tension sprocket to keep the chain tight.Commercially, they supply knurled rolls for 2 roll driven models, but with the added grip of a 3 roll driven model, you can use smooth rolls. This means no knurling marks on your material. In europe, they do a lot of rolling of aluminum extrusions, to fit new windows and doors in old buildings, and they use nylon rolls, and really like to have a 3 roll driven model for this.My commercial machine will roll 2" pipe, or 2" square tube- its pretty hefty- and the two lower rolls on it are only 12" on center- and this will roll any diameter circle I have ever needed- so I wonder why you made your rolls so far apart? It just seems to mean you cant roll smaller circles.
Reply:Originally Posted by Riesthe commercial ring rollers that have all 3 shafts driven usually use 3 seperate hydraulic motors, one for each shaft. Dont know if they are run at slightly different speeds, but I kinda doubt it.My commercial machine will roll 2" pipe, or 2" square tube- its pretty hefty- and the two lower rolls on it are only 12" on center- and this will roll any diameter circle I have ever needed- so I wonder why you made your rolls so far apart? It just seems to mean you cant roll smaller circles.
Reply:so I wonder why you made your rolls so far apart? It just seems to mean you cant roll smaller circles.
Reply:Actually, Motofab, the strictly proper way to get the identical speed out of the two or three separate hydraulic motors is not by applying the same pressure to each motor, but by use of a two or three-way, fixed displacement flow divider.  One form of this divice is essentially two or three gear pumps/motors on a common shaft.  The shaft is not externally driven - it just assures that all three pumps/motors rotate at the same speed independent of the variables of friction and clearances in the individual pumps/motors or in the external hydraulic circuits.  The pumps/motors are idlers that rotate only under the influence of the fluid being divided into two or three circuits.  They take negligible power from the fluid stream.If pressure from a common header is applied to three separate but identical motors, you will not necessarily get the same speed out of the three motors.  Varying tolerances and friction in each motor would result in different speeds.  The thing that might keep the three motors operating at synchronous speed would be the friction of the rollers on the work piece, and now we might be back to needing knurled rolls.  It's also possible, however, that the friction of plain rolls on the workpiece would be sufficient to keep the motors synchronized.  One advantage of this approach is that the center roll can operate at a slightly different speed than the two outer rolls to accommodate the ID/OD issue with no difficulty whatsoever and no required slip.  A disadvantage of this common-pressure approach is that if one roll started to slip, in the absence of some external sensor and recovery system, that roll would take all the fluid flow and wear a notch into the work piece.awright
Reply:Originally Posted by awright . . . the strictly proper way to get the identical speed . . .  . . . it just assures that all three pumps/motors rotate at the same speed . . .
Reply:Jim, can you be a little less cryptic in your question, "The same speed?"I thought we were discussing driving two or three rollers at the same speed, as an alternative to a chain drive and was describing in my post how one accomplishes forcing multiple hydraulic motors to rotate synchronously, independent of motor friction and loading.  The question of driving the roller at the inside of the curve at a slightly lower speed is a separate issue that may or may not be important to achieve.The same differential speed issue arises for transit vehicles going around a curved section of track.  Ideally, transit vehicle trucks would have a limited-slip differential to allow the inside wheel to rotate slower than the outside wheel.  But I don't think there is a transit system anywhere in the world that does not use a rigid axle and rigidly attached, pressed-on wheels.  The result is wheel squeal and wear, but they all just live with it.  That may be the appropriate solution for home brew slip rolls, also, if one wants a driven top roll.awright