Pilot arc or not? Picking a machine, maybe combo

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So I'm about to pull the trigger on a plasma cutter, and possibly a combination machine.  I've read a number of threads on the pilot arc feature, but I'm still left wondering if that's something I really need for what I'm going to be doing.A lot of what I cut will be steel with surface rust from a farm, or primed pipe.  I'll also have occasion to cut expanded steel.  Will I make it much more difficult on myself and really go through that many more consumables if I DON'T go with a pilot arc system?I'm also considering one of those combination plasma/TIG/arc machines, and none of those seem to have the feature.
Reply:Most all of the tig combo plasma machines that I am aware of have pilot arc standard.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Lug,The " pilot arc " machines.......do they use high frequency / high voltage to ionize the plasma gas to create the pilot arc...or do these pilot arc systems use the "moving electrode" (also known as "blowback start") method?The question keeps coming up: There are pilot arc machines that have high frequency start, and others with a pilot arc that do not.Jim
Reply:If you'll be doing a fair amount of cutting expanded metal, having a pilot arc that stays on any time the trigger is down is easier/faster to cut with.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I'm just trying to find out if the Everlast units that have a pilot arc (which is a non transferred arc sustained between the electrode (cathode) and the nozzle (anode)) use high frequency to ionize the air that creates a conductive path between the electrode and nozzle...or if they use the non high frequency process that involves a short circuit spark generated between nozzle and electrode to ionize the plasma air.Pilot arc plasma torches have been around since the 1950's....using high frequency. In the 1990's Hypertherm developed the (blowback start) non high frequency torches with a sustainable pilot arc.....just wondering which style the Everlast units are.I was going to try one of the units on my PlasmaCam.....but cannot use it if it is a high frequency pilot arc start.Jim
Reply:If you look on the page that lists all their plasma cutters together it shows what kind of start they use in the table.  I'd be curious to know if the PowerUltra 164 and 185  multi purpose units come with pilot arc.  If they do you'd think that they would brag about it on the website.  Also there is no product picture of those two units.  I'd really like to see pictures as I am quite serious about picking up one of these outfits.
Reply:Their info does mention that some systems have pilot arc...and others that don't. My question.....and the web site and sales info does not say anything about it.....is whether the pilot arc units use high frequency to establish the pilot arc....or if they use a "blowback" or other non high frequency start.Jim
Reply:If you look at the table that lists all the plasma cutters it shows what start type is used.  It shows the PowerPlasma 50 is blowback and all others are high frequency.  The website doesn't on the other hand show what start type is used on the multi purpose machines which would be usefull I would agree.
Reply:Originally Posted by bigricSo I'm about to pull the trigger on a plasma cutter, and possibly a combination machine.  I've read a number of threads on the pilot arc feature, but I'm still left wondering if that's something I really need for what I'm going to be doing.A lot of what I cut will be steel with surface rust from a farm, or primed pipe.  I'll also have occasion to cut expanded steel.  Will I make it much more difficult on myself and really go through that many more consumables if I DON'T go with a pilot arc system?I'm also considering one of those combination plasma/TIG/arc machines, and none of those seem to have the feature.
Reply:Depending upon the unit, there are different forms of pilot arc with the Everlast units.  I cannot speak for the other machines.  The PM 205 has a "blowback" start as well as our Power Plasma 50, as Jim said.The PM 256 and PP 60, 70, 80, and 100 have a High Frequency start that initiates the arc at the beginning of the cut, but uses a separate wire which supplies the pilot arc to the torch, creating the ground situation between the electrode and nozzle to ionize the air.  Only the Mosfet unit, the SuperCut 50 has HF start, but no pilot arc.  We have the blowback designs for the 60-100 ready and will probably at a later time change all our units to it.  However, we are still working with a manufacturer on the torch so that the units can perform to their capabilities. We do have several customers with our PP 60 and 80 units running a CNC homemade and professionally made and are experiencing little or  no issues with HF interference at start.    The units have a HF ground/drain on the case to help with HF issues.   There's a video or two of them at work on the net, but I suspect if they would purchase the available machine torch, it'd make things easier for rigging, and setup and yield better quality cuts. Attached ImagesLast edited by lugweld; 03-20-2010 at 02:23 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT