Question about a new gate

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I have vinyl fencing around my back yard, as well as a large span (>13ft) gate. The problem I have is that my yard backs to a 25 acre pasture. There is no wind break, so my gate doesn't hold up very well. Here are a couple of pics to illistrate the situation... Attached ImagesMillermatic 175Black and Decker hacksaw
Reply:As you can see, there is no support in the center to keep the gate from hyperextending the hinges and ripping the gate apart. I want to build a new gate using a steel skeleton and then face it with the vinyl. My plan is to remove the gate post on the left, as well as the section of fence to the left of it. Then, the post that the small gate closes to, and the post on the right will be replaced with a couple 5X5X.250 steel posts. This will leave my new gate opening around 19 ft wide. I plan to put a sleeve at the center of the span with a removable vinyl post that both halves of the gate will close to. This will give them each a solid latch in the center, not allowing the previous hyperextension.Now my question, what size of steel would you use to build the skeleton of the gates? I have a bunch of 1X2X.120 scrap that would help me keep costs down(I'm laid off at the moment). Will this be enough? I would like to use 1X3 stock, but at $54 for a 24' length, I may have to put the project off for awhile. Maybe use the scrap the the cross at the center, and the larger stock for the main frame? Here's a drawing of what I have planned... Attached ImagesMillermatic 175Black and Decker hacksaw
Reply:I dont know if you thought of this but it may work and save you a lot of time and $$$.  If the existing gate is pretty rigid i dont see why you could not pour a small concrete plug 12" wide 24" deep or so and then drill 2 3-4" holes in it.  Then install 2 cane bolts on your existing gates where they come together.  Then when you want to open is you pull up the cane bolts and unlatch it and it should open like normal. But in high winds it should stop the gate from flexing in either direction.Here is a pic if what i am proposing isnt totally clear.
Reply:The old gates had those. When I put the fence in, the plan was to get the concrete poured soon after. The economy has changed things so I've had to wait. I rebuilt the gate once, but it's destroyed again. I really wanted a bigger opening anyway, so this will be much better for my needs. It ended up being 13 feet across because that was as big as the fence company would do.Millermatic 175Black and Decker hacksaw
Reply:You could maybe build the frame with the 1x2 stock and make it a "T" profile. Know what I mean? Weld one length of the 1x2 to another, edge to middle of the face, to make a "T" profile. This would give you more lateral and horizontal stiffness. Does the gate need to be completely solid panel? There's the problem, it's a sail. If you could put gaps in the panel or a few "windows", that would relieve some of the pressure. Bert200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:The vinyl fencing has some pluses and some minuses.One minus is that the vinyl itself is -not- structural.  Gates and corner/end/gate posts are supposed to be (AFAIK) made of the 'structural' materials (wood or steel pretty much) and then the vinyl parts are the covering or veneer.And +1 on the cane bolts.  They help.    If you can't put the concrete plugs or apron in, you can just put some pipe of the appropriate diameter in as the sleeve/socket for the cane bolt to sink into.  The pipe can be considered temporary or permanent.A mid-span gate roller can help with sag too.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Ahh, I got ya! I just thought I would throw that out there since you said money was a little tight.We have a gate on the side driveway of our house which is hmm well lemme go measure...Ok well ours is 7' for each side, and made with 2" square tubing.  Just comparing the 2 designs, I would think that the 1x2 tubing would work fine since the overall weight of your gate would be substantially less than ours.  If you want a suggestion for hinges let me know and I can take a picture of mine.  They work great because you can adjust the gate back and forth and true it up to being perfectly level even if the pipe you attach it to bows slightly under the weight.Here is the pic of my side gate:
Reply:That's a nice gate. I would like to keep mine solid though, because I don't like my toys visible from street. If you get a chance, post some pics or a link to your hinges. Thanks.Millermatic 175Black and Decker hacksaw
Reply:Here is a more complete rendition of what I would like to do. Will the 1X2X.120 scrap I have be strong enough for the gate skeleton? Attached ImagesMillermatic 175Black and Decker hacksaw
Reply:A couple of observations here:First,  looking at the photos, a big contributing problem is poor hinge selection.  The way the original hinges were installed places all of the load of the gate on the fasteners in tension, tending to pull them out of the wood.  A much better arrangement would be to have strap hinges on the outside, such that the load of the gate will be applied to the fasteners in shear.  Now it looks like on the side on the viewer's right it may have been difficult to do this,  and this is sorta after the fact, but it might be worth keeping in mind as you go ahead with the project.Second, your sketch shows two diagonals on each gate, forming an "X".  Taking a rectangle and dividing it into two triangles by adding one diagonal adds a lot in terms of strength and rigidity;  Dividing those 2 triangles into 4 triangles by adding a second diagonal adds very little additional strength or rigidity. Mostly it just adds weight, cost and complexity.
Reply:There sure are some clever people in this forum. It's nice to have such a wealth of knowledge available.Cheers
Reply:Here are the pics of the hinges The bolt goes through the square tube and you can adjust the nuts on both sides to get a push or pull so that the gate is level on both sides.
Reply:A couple of quick things --I agree with only having the one diagonal.  If it goes from the top of the gate (at the hinge side) to the bottom of the gate (opposite the hinge), I imagine that you don't need to make it out of anything heavy at all.  That crossmember will be entirely in tension and could be make out a much smaller piece of metal and do the job just fine.Also, have you considered facing the gate in sheet-metal instead of vinyl?  It would provide a great deal of shear strength of your concern is the gate sagging.
Reply:I agree with A Squared the biggest problem is the hinges.  Thru bolting butterfly or strap hinges would solive most of your problems.