utility trailer build advice needed.

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i am just starting to build my first trailer and would like some advice. the 2 sides and the front and back of the attached trailer picture is 2x3 1/8 wall tubingthe tow bar is running from front to back is 2x2 1/4 wall tubing. there is going to be a 3500 lb axel under this , just didn't want to sped 3 or 4 hours drawing it in.i would like any comments that anyone might have, may they be complements or suggestions  on a different way to go about one thing or another. thanks for your helpTrevor Attached Images
Reply:What will be the deck material???   2.75 feet between each crossbar is a bit wide unless you are using wooden planks for the deck.Personally, I would put a crossmember every 2 feet or 18" depending on what you are hauling.Come try it out and stay a while.
Reply:i am going to be using 2x6 pressure treated lumberedit: i can put in more supports as well that is not a problem.Last edited by trevornewell; 03-26-2010 at 09:51 AM.
Reply:mabie this way is better. Attached Images
Reply:It appears that you have 5 feet of tongue? Thats pretty excessive. I have always put the tongue around 40 inches and added the coupler. Attached ImagesUA Local 598
Reply:I see a number of issues with the basic design. You're using 3x2 on the sides, front and back, yet it looks like the tongue thats 2x2 runs thru the whole thing as one piece. That heavy wall tube won't do you much good as it's only in tension. All the support will come from the sides that are holding the springs. All your supporting cross members are cut in the middle because of the  center tube.You'd be better off with heavier sides and front and design the tongue like the one shown in the picts above. Use more cross members and keep them as one piece side to side. The "A" underneath can add support to the sides as well as any cross members it goes under.If you look at most trailer designs they usually use something similar to what I've described.I'll toss out my usual caveat. I have no idea just what your skill level is or what sort of machine you have to use. I'm guessing from your post that your experience level may be on the lower side, probably a hobbyist with limited build time.  If I'm wrong, don't take it personally. Trailers are not beginner projects for someone with a little 110v welder. Lives depend on what you will do and how well you do it. Your design especially depends strictly on the welds. Cross members don't sit on top of any thing else and the welds just hold them in place like is done in some designs. That means that with your plan you must make every weld count and there will be a lot of bending and flexing with the way you have it designed. If you are not 100% sure that you are capable of making solid perfect welds every time in all positions, you should think twice about whether you are actually ready to do this sort of project..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:i am a armature welder at best. no classes or official training. just what my father has taught me and now i surpass him. i have done 3 major welding jobs using my lincoln 220v arc and my mig pack 180, also 220. i replaced 4 feet of chassis on a 1/2 tone pickup and even welded some structural beam for a friends garage.  i will take all of your advice and modify my design and repost my drawing when i can. thanks for all of your input
Reply:how about this new version one? built out of all 2x2 1/8 wall. excetp the tow bar that is 1/4 wall. any ideas or comments? Attached Images
Reply:With a 3500lb axle, I think I would do a 2x3x1/8" outer frame,  2x2x1/4" angle iron cross members, plank floor, and a 50 degree tongue with a-frame coupler.  To me that would seem to be the best bang for the buck.  The reason I said angle iron cross members is because you could bolt through them to hold the plank down and not have as much problems with rust.My name's not Jim....
Reply:what i'm looking at is strength. do you think that the 2x2x1/4 angle will be as strong as the 2x2 1/8 tubing. i know i must sound like a nit picker but as DSW was trying to say safety is paramount. let me know either way and anything other changes you would make. thanks again for all you relpTrevor
Reply:The 2x2x 1/8" tubing would prolly be stiffer in the begining, but you would have to screw or bolt through them to attach the planks and that's where the rust would set in.  Over time your tube would dissapear leaving you with nothing.  IF concerned about the stiffness of the angle you could step up to 2x3 and lay the planks on top of everything.  I was thinking with the 2x2 you could inset the planks.My name's not Jim....
Reply:i understand. how about this, i use 2x3x1/8" for the outside of the frame and keep the angle flush with the bottom, this way i can have 1 inch of my 2x6 lumber inside the frame.it seams like a good way to go to me. what do you think?let me know. Trevor Attached Images
Reply:Boostinjdm has the right idea re the angle for bolting. The only thing I don't like is there's going to be 1/2" of board sticking up, could be a pia if you add sides, it'll trap dirt, gravel or just crud in the channell created.I'd run the tongue back one more bunk too but that's just me...Mike
Reply:That last pic is what I was thinking.  You could run that tongue clear back to the axle and fish your wires through it.  The diagonal braces could be made out of angle.Somebody said earlier about tongue length being 40 inches.  that's a good ballpark to be in.  I usually measure from the ball to the end of the bumper and make my tongue at least that long.  If you jack knife the corner will miss the truck then.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Go to a trailer place and look at small trailers like you are building and build yours like theirs. You know an engineer designed it to be as cheap to build as it can be and still be plenty heavy duty enough for it's intended use. For small trailers like you are building, I use 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 1/4 angle for the sides and 2 x 2 angle across and under the side angles evrey two feet. The rails are 2 x 2 x 1/8 for the rails. Almost every commercial built small trailer around here is built like that.
Reply:The design is definitely getting better..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Is there a design parameter that calls for the straight tongue? I know you want to be able to make a forward turn with your steering wheel able to turn full lock in both directions, but by running the angled members right into a 50 degree 'A' frame coupler ......you gain better lateral stability compared to a straight coupler. Just another $00.02City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:To resolve any guesswork..............Champion Trailer Parts Supply has decent free plans available onlineNorthern Tool & Equipment has excellent plans available in their catalog (probably available online)Unless you're loading light, or loading with the load spread evenly, I'd go with light gauge steel flooring over lumber any day.  Lumber has very little strength when layed flat, and even treated lumber dries out over time and becomes worthless.A very big advantage to a lumber floor is the resistance to skidding.  The load won't have a tendancy to slide.Weight wise, very often steel flooring and lumber are just about equal.  (depending on the gauge)"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Samm beat me to the punch.I was going to say that Northern Tool has excellent plans available for building small trailers.  The engineering has already been done.  It would be difficult for the "non-engineer" to come up with a more cost effective use of material.Then it just comes down to your ability to stick the material together properly.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Man I got to move to the USA Up here at Princess Auto which would be equivalent to Harbour Freight in the US an Axle with 3500# rating goes for 300$ and I see at Champion that an entire kit to build a trailer minus steel and wheels is 295$ man are we getting gyped.Harold MulderMiller 211 AutosetHTP 201 Invertig with water coolerHardinge Cataract Quick Change Lathe
Reply:As an observation there are 3500lb trailers that can haul 3500 lbs if it's all distributed evenly over the bulk of the deck then there can be a 3500 lb trailer than can take 3500 lbs concentrated no matter where you put it as long as it doesn't punch a hole in the deck. I sure see a lot of these utility trailers with one back corner or the whole axx end bent down and out of shape. A guy sort of needs to design one with a purpose in mind. I followed a nice looking one just last night that had one heck of an arch downward from the springs on back. If both corners were only the same he could maybe claim it was by design. A "post build adjustment". "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:i have been to Champion Trailer Parts Supply online. that is where i learnt about axle placement. i will be adding more to my design but not today. got in a fight with a bottle of rum. the rum won. so only one new pic today Attached Images
Reply:Actually Harold the 3500lb axles are on sale this week for CAN$149 . But you are right, the price of stuff here in Can. compared to the US is crazy  more $$$$....Mike
Reply:Utilitytrailerkit.com has full 3500 kits (minus steel) for about 300. I have always bought from them. You wont find a better price.Just want to point out the dimension on the rum-induced cad drawing shows a tongue of 2'-4" and should say 3'-4".I would add that when dealing with 20 foot sticks, or if they are cut to 10 for easy transport, that making a trailer that measures 5 x 10 will leave you with the least amount of waste.UA Local 598
Reply:lol i never noticed that. i will make the change. the problem i have now is getting the steel for the metal shop to my garage. they only sell 24 foot pieces. just stock lengths. i live in newfounland canada and there are not many options as where to buy my steel. if only i had a trailer to use to transport my steel. kina ironic. i think they will cut it for me, but i will have to pay through the nose for it. i will check the prices again tomorrow.Enclosed are pics of a M-101 Military trailer chassis. I removed the huge box and  added the 4x8 wood decked top, home made fenders, front sissy bar, and old man step.   It tips in the middle (a 'dump' of sorts), You release the two front pins and then it swivels on the bolts just before the spring on the chassis.  It carries well over 1000 # with no complaints.  You might borrow some ideas from it. Attached ImagesLincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:TREVORNWELL..............what software r u using to create those images.....i wanta play withit.thanksworld.        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:google sketchup pro if you want my original to play around with let me know
Reply:oh btw. i hace my steel ordered and should be here this evening. almost 500 lbs i was going to get it the day i ordered it but i could only get it in stock lengths 24' for the tubing and 20' for the angle.
Reply:finally got it started. let me know what you think. oh and btw iknow the tires are to big there just aold set ihad kicking around. Attached Images
Reply:Hey guys, Im new to the forum but not new to welding. The trailer is coming along good. How strong is 3x2 .120ga tubing for a A frame tongue?
Reply:Plenty strong. It is what I use in all my trailers.UA Local 598
Reply:one thing that I do when working on trailers is put a piece of 1/4 flat bar on the bottom of the tube where the springs connect, the last one I did was about 8' long per shackle.  Lessens the chances of  the lighter tube bending or cracking from rust or wear.I would say the 3,500lb class trailer is the most overloaded trailer of all flatbeds.  Think 5,000 lbs to be safe.  Looks good
Reply:Trevor, the trailer is looking good. What are you going to do for tail lights, outboard them, or sink the into to rear tube?Millermatic 175Black and Decker hacksaw
Reply:Originally Posted by coreshotTrevor, the trailer is looking good. What are you going to do for tail lights, outboard them, or sink the into to rear tube?
Reply:some new picks. Attached Images
Reply:I noticed the vertical tube for your side rails. I learned the hard way that this is not a good idea as moisture gets trapped inside and causes premature rot of the horizontal rail.
Reply:i might drill a 1/4 inch hole to solve that problem
Reply:another update. starting to look good now i think  Attached Images
Reply:btw sorry for the low res picks. camera is on the fritz