HF bead roller to TZ re-design

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I finally got some free time and thought I might start on reinforcing my bead roller. I've used it a few times successfully but it definately flexes under material 16 ga. thick. Here are the stages of the build:Stage 1 - grind off paint in weld areas:Stage 2 - measure, cut and fit 1.5" x 1/8 angle iron:Stage 3 - measure, make template, cut and fit angle end caps: Stage 4 - measure, cut and fit angle up-right: Bonus pic feature - completed polished radiator support for a turbo setup:That's all for now, more pics later as progress continues on the HF to TZ bead roll 'um!  John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Great design, I love the look and can't wait to see the finished product. May do the same to mine. Keep us up to date on your progress.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:Yeah man, looks good.  I was wondering how those HF bead rollers would do.  When I get one, I'll go ahead and pick up some angle to reinforce it.  By the way, did you roll the radiator support???  looks more like a  Press brake job to me.
Reply:More progress on the TZ bead roller!  Cut the bottom of the vertical upright to match to angled cuts on the other pieces. Also tacked the other pieces in place: Clean up and bevel the scrap 3/8" metal to use for bottom brace/support mount: Mark the center line of the scrap 3/8" material to make the bottom 2 side gussets: Finish cut with the plasma, used another scrap piece as a guide. My little air compressor can't keep up, so I had to make 2 short cuts.  Finished bottom brace/support mount welded on. It's ugly compared to the rest but I ran out of angle stock and didn't want to wait until after the weekend to get more.   John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Thanks J and bigcountry. Yes, the rad. support was done on a brake. The toughest part is measuring and getting all the holes correct.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:keep it up man. looking goodMiller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:i was just about to ask if you rememberd you needed to be able to clamp it into a vice as you were adding the lower gusset so far down there would be no place left to atach it. but it looks like you just had not gotten that far yet. its looking realy good.with a lil luck i'll be getting one of them also as soon as taxes get back. gotta get a lath first though as i realy need a bender first and the lath is the key to making the die's for the bender. its just crazy how much they want for the die's. heck you can get a small metal lath for the price of a full set of die's.it's just nuts.just a thought, i would drill a hole in the back so i could pore some rustoleum paint inside the welded on suports. i know it would take a long time to rust enough to cause a problem but just the same you are creating an area of traped moisture. when ever i do some thing like that i always take a can of rustolium and spray it into a small can till i get some liquid to pore into the closed off area. some times i have old cans that are out of omph and wont spray any more and i use that paint if i have it.its looking like a realy nice upgrade, should be realy strong. gotta love tools. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:Thanks Fun. I thought about painting it but the metal still has the mill scale on it and the top support isn't enclosed yet. If I paint it, the top, then enclose it, the paint will burn anyway. It's a catch 22.  I'll be adding mounting pads to the bottom of the bottom support. I saw another one done with way and it works good. Now I have to go get Kerosene for my house because I'm out and it's SNOWING HERE!    You never win against old man winter!John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:ya no kidding whats with this weather??? i'm taking the wife and kids in to see my niece and family for easter and we had planed on some outside egg fun but i guess that a wash now.8^((i was thinking when i get one i would weld on a drop down like the one you have on it then add a 6"X6"X1/4" flat plate so i could bolt it down to my welding table. i have a few holes drilled to mount my vice and some other stuff so it would just bolt on there as well. that it untill i get the trailor hitch setup going then i will just nount it onto a 2" square pipe to slide in the reciever, hope to have all my stuff set up like that some day. should make my small welding shop area much more usefull and organized.... well thats the plan anyway.be shore to kep the pic's comming. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:More progress and more pics today: 2 pieces of 1"x1"x1/8 angle fit, cut and drilled for mounting, bottom shot: Top view of bottom mount: Back view of the hardware, it stands up by ITSELF!  Another view of TZ BR standing: A picture of a long run of the welds, I opted to run with the pulse look: ...pics continued next post. John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:More pics...Top down view of the 1" angle mounts and holes: The TZ BR all cleaned up, ready for primer: All primered up:Back - primer: That's all for now, I will get it painted tonight and re-install the hardware. John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:What do you wear for a respirator when spraying indoors?
Reply:A paint respirator plus I have a big ventilation fan that gets turned on and it shoots both welding and paint fumes outside. John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneA paint respirator plus I have a big ventilation fan that gets turned on and it shoots both welding and paint fumes outside.
Reply:nice redesigning there MicroZone should look and work great when you done  Creative metal Creative metal Facebook
Reply:what is the pice sticking up for ?? your upright goes well abouve the top of the rooler is there a reason for it ?? do you plan on storing different heads there or some thing?? summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:Weldordie - yep, I'm very conscious about my health and safety. I walk around with my safety glasses AND a grinding shield most times.  wello - thanks for the compliment! Fun - the piece sticking up is the upright, in case the unit still flexes, then I will put a gusset from that to the top of the roller. Jamlit asked the same question last night.    If it doesn't flex, I'll use it for the motor mounting. John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:cool you are planing to motorize it ??? summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:Yepper, eventually I'll put a motor on it.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:nice Micro...looking good.I thought I would add these links for all to check out:Click here: Another strengthened HF bead rollerClick Here: these guys make a power kit for the HF bead roller-Graham-Mechanical EngineerAutosport Mechanic/Fabricator
Reply:Thanks Graham ! Good lord - $275 starting bid for the power kit? They are nuts! However, I can understand trying to make a profit. John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:I made mine roll around a bit.  Not painted or anything as yet, I want to put a top brace like above since it still deflects a bit.  Crappy phone pic, etc., etc.
Reply:Looking good John!  All angular and futuristic looking.  Nice touch with the end-caps on the angle iron.I will say that the JalopyJournal guy's mod is dang nice too!  So swoopy and retro and Art-Deco looking.And taking a glance at the JJ-mod, where are you going to put the die-storage bracket John??Also, how was the welding on the HF steel?  And now an operating question.  How would you do a bead on the middle of a panel and not run off the edges/ends of the panel?  Can you spread/jack the upper and lower arms apart enough to put the panel in a few inches and then  start the bead and then spread/jack the arms apart before getting to the far edge/end of the panel?  Like this in CAD (Crude ASCII Drawing):___________________________________|                                                     ||                                                     ||     =====================          ||                                                     ||_________________________________|
Reply:Thanks Moonrise! I was going to use more angle but ran out. I wanted it to have some design to it. I would have liked to run angle on the bottom and incorporated more end caps like on the frame...but again ran out and didn't really want to spend more on material. Yes - I really like the JJ old antique look on that roller. I almost did the same but then opted for the more future design using cut angle iron. The DIE storage - I will show you, pictures to follow later today. I've got something up my sleeve.  The HF 3/8 steel was nice to weld on, once it was all cleaned up. I had to bevel the thick material for my winky 110v MIG. It is strong and holds good! Yes - the arms allow you to seperate them and slide up to an 18" piece of sheet in there (18" throat depth). The smaller HF models are 12" throat depth. You can start at any point on the material, as long as the total isn't larger than a total of 18" to the center bead on your project. Any other questions, I'd be happy to help. Ask away!John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:John, Looking real nice, sturdy to I bet! I want to do one too. I had some hand surgery on the 20th of March, almost ready to tackle some steel?Bruce The Welding ChefLincoln Weld-Pack 3200 NORWELD StickStanford Hill FarmOriginally Posted by MicroZoneYepper, eventually I'll put a motor on it.
Reply:I think you did an awesome job. The caps on the angle are something I never thought about doing. But I am going to say you stole my idea! no, just kidding.I don't have a bead roller and don't know how to use one. I know what they do basically.I have a question regarding the need to strengthen the the unit. The angle looks like it does the job, but what if a person had something like 1 inch thick plate laying around. Would it be just as effective to have used the original piece as a template to cut out of the 1inch thick plate, then attach both pieces? Effectively if the original piece is 1/4 inch, then you would end up with 1-1/4inch total. Or is the angle stronger in that configuration than using plate? Or is the angle just lighter and just as strong? I wish I had some engineering books that listed strengths of materials. I could probably answer my own question. OR....was that just the design you chose due to material availability?Sorry for the long post. I think you did an awesome job!Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:Joker, To make something 'stronger' can mean several different things.  In this case the original is plenty strong (meaning it isn't going to break in use), but the original bends and deflects and wiggles around in certain directions.To stiffen something or to make it stronger, you need to have enough of the right material(s) in the right place(s).  The mod that TZ did is stiffening the original plate from side-to-side deflection, the major shortcoming of the original bead roller AFAIK.As to using a big hunk of 1" plate to stiffen the original 3/8 " plate, yes that would work.  It would be -much- heavier than the original or the angle-iron braced mod.  Also a lot more work to weld that heavy plate.I think TZ used angle iron because he had it, he could weld it with his machine, and it looks and works OK.
Reply:Moonrise is correct. The original HF is 3/8" thick. I have some material here - different shapes and thickness but I wanted something that looked different and wouldn't add alot of weight. I chose the 1.5"x1/8 angle. It adds alot of rigidity and looks cool on it's side. Kinda' futuristic as I think some people stated.  Thank you very much for all the compliments. I spent WAY too much time revamping this thing. It was almost like working on the body work on a car or making a metal sculpture.  I think I have between 8 to 10 hours total cutting, fitting, shaping and grinding this TZ BR. It came out like I had imagined in my mind. Thanks again~! I'll be posting more pictures here in a few minutes.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Here is the latest and final set of pics. The TZ BR is done! Well...almost. I have to shorten the small rotator "handle" I made for the adjustment on the top die. It is too long and hits the top of my angle iron. Here is the BR stand, courtesy of my local HF. These are VERY sturdy for those that want to mount any tools. At first I was going to use a single pole grinder stand but then thought the side-to-side movement is too much for it. This was a VERY good option:Drilled and offset for BR: Full view pic. See the storage area for dies, very handy: Scrap material, perfect for making a "handle" for the top die adjuster: All done, top bolt ground down, still gives a "ribbed" grip for the true tool feel: Vertical support enclosed with 16gs. sheet, cut and bent to match the 1/8" angle iron: More pics to follow...John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Another view of the vertical up support, tack-tack-tack that thin material: All done tacking, ground and shaped for that artsy-fartsy look:  Another view: Square 1/8" tube, cut and beveled to fit on top, for bracing top die: Another view of the vertical support, it's almost an optic illusion: More pics to follow...again....John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Bad fuzzy pic of final BR, it was 2 a.m. at this point, all primered up:Another angle: Yet another angle: Final paint, M.M.B. (manly Miller Blue)  Another angle:Last 2 pics to follow...whew!John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Last 2 pictures...Back shot of the TZ BR:Final shot of the TZ BR mounted on the stand, it's GOOD !  Oh, you'll have to turn your laptop or PC monitor sideways, when I turn it vertical, WW says it's too big:That's all, comments and criticisms welcome...thanks for looking! One PROJECT tool done!  ***D O N E   stamp***John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:COOL, very well done! My only ?, how much does it weigh?Bruce The Welding ChefLincoln Weld-Pack 3200 NORWELD StickStanford Hill Farm
Reply:Not sure but I will weigh it after dinner. I can deduct the given weight of the HF stuff hopefully I can also calculate the added weight. Thanks 4 compliment.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:looking good, when do we get to see it with the motor on it ??or is that a later on some day maybee thing ??? summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:Shoot - forgot to weigh it. I'll do that this afternoon. Fun - it works so well now that 1 person can manage working a small sheet. However, I would still like to put a motor on it. I'm still weighing which motor and pulley setup to use.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:MicroZoneCheck out the harbor freight winch for a motor-- the larger ac winch.  It is geared to about 60rpm has a brake and the shaft is 18mm hex shaped.  It also has forward and reverse remote control, I am sure you could make a foot pedal easily.  I used one on my roller.  Basically, I just removed the pulley and cut the end off the mounting assembly--it was ready to use.
Reply:Tap - thanks for the suggestions. I thought about that and think I saw yours. However, don't you have to keep it hooked to a battery or battery charger? I was hoping to find a motor that would take 110v. I have an HF winch laying around...John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:maybee one of HF's overhead lifts ?? i got mine for like $80 on sail its rated for 800lbs lift and has forward & reverse, runs off 110V not shore if you want to spend that much on it though. but its along the same lines as a winch just in 110V version. they always have one of them on sale as they have several diferent lift capasitys but any should work for this aplication, maybee set it up with a quick disconect so you  could use it to also power a roler too  just change out heads. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:Hmm, that might work. I was also thinking about using a small right angle drill then just putting the button on a box for the on/off. Something like this: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92956John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:i think you would need a lot more torque than that lil drill will give, maybe a larger drill, much larger like 5/8". my mil. 5/8" will break your wrist if it hangs up and you are not carfull, some thing like that might do the trick if the start up torque was there.that lil one you showed you could probly hold the chuck with your hand against the motor power.:P summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:Well, finally got a chance to weigh the bead roller. My nitrous scale said in the area of 60 lbs. but I think it was maxing out. The HF link for the BR says shipping weight: 60 lbs. It probably weighs in at a good 70 or 80.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Tap - thanks for the suggestions. I thought about that and think I saw yours. However, don't you have to keep it hooked to a battery or battery charger? I was hoping to find a motor that would take 110v. I have an HF winch laying around...
Reply:Tap - do you have pics of your again? I thought you used the 12 V vehicle winch?John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Nice job John!Maybe we can make some of these and call them the TZZT bead roller!!  - Paulhttp://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:...or we could get Zapster involved and call it the ZTZZT Bead Roller !   Okay, I haven't had my coffee yet, so I'm a goof. Thanks for the compliment.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:The motor is the large 440/880lbs Electric Hoist.  It is 1-1/8 hp.  I'll post pictures in my next thread.
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZone...or we could get Zapster involved and call it the ZTZZT Bead Roller !   Okay, I haven't had my coffee yet, so I'm a goof. Thanks for the compliment.
Reply:tapwelder - thank you, pics would be great. Paul - that is too funny. What is up with all the Z's anyway? John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com