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What would you guys charge for a job that requires to weld a 1/2inch nut to a small piece of sheet metal. Would you guys charge per piece or per hour and how much? thanks.
Reply:I normally charge per hour and the cost of the material to do it. But with something small like that I might just do it for free. Depends on who it is I guess. Im a nice guy!BSSServices1997 F250 4X4 Powerstroke w/ Bobcat 225NT & tools1992 F450 SuperDuty 7.3IDI w/ Bobcat 225NT & more tools!
Reply:$35 minimum charge if he brings it to the shop, $65 minimum charge if I come to him to do it within the local area, $100 minimum charge if I come to him and he's outside the local area.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Sorry I didn't put enough info. He wants minimum 200 a week done and wouldn't say how many in total. He got quoted 120 an hour but wouldn't say how many in an hour that involved. See I was worried about quoting him something like 50 dollars an hour but what if I manage to weld up like 200 in that hour; and end up costing me to much in Co2 and wire. Is that possible? thanks for the help so far guys!Last edited by 180guy; 05-18-2010 at 02:15 AM.
Reply:It's always best to have all the facts before asking a question.  People will give you answers based on the information you give them.  If you come back later and give them more facts, their responses might change.Get all the facts and then restate your qeustion.
Reply:Time plus direct expenses might be a starting point.
Reply:Decide on how many you can do per hour, be conservative, and charge accordingly.UA Local 598
Reply:There is a big difference between fixing something for a neighbor and supplying labor only for something that will be used for resale. In many states 50+ of any task is considered "production" and will not run under the "sales tax radar". Meaning records will have to be kept and value added reported by you and the tax collected for same paid by the seller. This is a freaking can of worms.You will have to also insure yourself accordingly (that's not so bad).Matt
Reply:First question you need to ask yourself, is if you're "qualified" to do the job.For a guy just trying to figure out if he can run his machine off a dryer plug and an extension cord, I'm not sure you're ready to be bidding on "production welding".I can't imagine what kind of manufacturer would have you bidding in the first place.PS:  Before some of the "ladies" get on my case, go back and read the OP's previous posts.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:There you go again Sundown bringing logic and reason into the mix.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIFirst question you need to ask yourself, is if you're "qualified" to do the job.For a guy just trying to figure out if he can run his machine off a dryer plug and an extension cord, I'm not sure you're ready to be bidding on "production welding".I can't imagine what kind of manufacturer would have you bidding in the first place.PS:  Before some of the "ladies" get on my case, go back and read the OP's previous posts.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIII can't imagine what kind of manufacturer would have you bidding in the first place.
Reply:Man, I get this sort of schitz all the time."I know a guy who will do this repair for chicken feed".My response."Fine.  Go get yourself some chicken poop welds.  Not happening here."The definition of "being retired" is not NOT WORKING.  It's doing the work you choose to do not because you HAVE TO but because you WANT TO.Last edited by SundownIII; 05-18-2010 at 03:22 PM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:First, I would want to know what he is doing with the pieces.  If I didn't think they were up to the intended job, I wouldn't touch 'em.That said.  IF the pieces were supplied ready to weld, I would prolly tell him a buck a piece cash for the first batch to mig them.  Tig would be more.  Then I would track my time and materials while doing that first batch to see if the buck a piece was fair or not.  Then possibly re-negotiate the price for future batches.  IF all went well and he wanted more, they would be done on the up and up.  That's just me though.  I don't know your situation or qualifications.  That's just my quick two cents.My name's not Jim....
Reply:I agree 100%, but you also can't fault someone for shopping around for the best price. I don't say " I can get it from so-and-so for....". I just think that's rude. If I know the price is high, I'll ask if that's their best price and base my purchase on their answer. If I like the place I'm dealing with, I'll pay a couple bucks more. But these places that supply to Gov't or big industry are sometimes on crack when it comes to pricing. They're are just ripping the public(Gov't) off. I can't abide that.200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:7A749,LOL.When I ran a yacht sales business, I had a guy who specialized in selling sailboats.  I couldn't deal with the windfairies..They thought the wind was free and everything else should be also.I'll try to stay "politically correct" and not comment further on this post, however, the original question asked should make the hair stand up on the neck of every "professional welder" out there.  If you don't know what your time, experience, equipment, etc, are worth, then maybe you shouldn't try passing yourself off as a "professional".Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIII7A749,LOL.When I ran a yacht sales business, I had a guy who specialized in selling sailboats.  I couldn't deal with the windfairies..They thought the wind was free and everything else should be also.I'll try to stay "politically correct" and not comment further on this post, however, the original question asked should make the hair stand up on the neck of every "professional welder" out there.  If you don't know what your time, experience, equipment, etc, are worth, then maybe you shouldn't try passing yourself off as a "professional".
Reply:You/We need more info from the guy. Are we talking spec'd welds or "just attach the damn thing" welds? Is he supplying all parts or do you have to buy/make them. What are the things used for? Is he going to be regularly getting "X" number /month or is he going to show up at your shop needing a thousand tomorrow, then you don't see him for three months until the next time he needs more in a rush.( read: as pain in the arse to deal with).Me, I have him supply parts, if possible. This way he can take the hit if suddenly the work dries up and he's stuck with a pile of useless parts taking up room in his space not yours. If your supplying parts, don't get caught making/buying a bunch of parts and get left holding the bill when the music stops. Make him pay up front for the next order so you're covered cost wise. I'd tell him you'll do a trial run of say 50 units for "x"$ and see how it goes. Then you can give him a more accurate/honest price per order. Better for both you and him. He pays up front for the test. And figure out a minimum order you'll take. Nothing more annoying then the "oh, but I just need three this week" especially if the product requires jigs and set up to make. If I'm building a CD rack, I build a minimum of five. Shop mantra: Your Panic isn't my Problem. If it becomes my Problem, then I'm going to Profit!!!   Rama-Rama-Ding-Dong, Hari-Hari-Hari. Some times little repeat jobs like this are great time fillers. Hour at the end of the day to wind down and can be quite profitable once you get a system going. I've done a lot of production welding. All requiring hand bending and welding. Proper jigs and fixtures are worth 10X there weight. I used to work on some fooked-up fixtures, and one day had enough of forcing pieces in and needing a pry bar to get them once built. I informed the boss that I was going to rebuild the fixtures that week. And I did. From then on, I built the jigs and fixtures. Can't go wrong with designing them well. Plug in the ipod and build a hundred. Anyhow, that's my nickle worthBert200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:All great replies so far.  Mine was based on the info available at the time, which was not the whole story.For production/manufacturing, it's time and materials.  Cost of materials, plus time spent multiplied by value of time, then add in whatever special considerations exist, such as shipping, delivery, acquiring materials, sending parts to outside suppliers for paint/polish, etc, etc.  Estimating the time to be spent is always the hard part.  The rest is just plugging in the numbers.  Doing a trial run should clear up the time estimation issue.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Thanks for the responses guys. I never claimed to be a professional welder; cant just make assumptions. I live in British Columbia Canada so not sure what my certs mean every where else. But I have my B level ticket with pressure and CWB's. Only worked in welding and fabricating  for the past 4 years. I am only advertising on craigslist looking for side welding jobs as I have been recently laid off. This guy contacted me and that is all the information i could get out of him. I told him I would weld 100 nuts for 80$; he then called back and said he was just looking for some backyard welder to just stick them on and that I was not being fare. ThanksLast edited by 180guy; 05-20-2010 at 03:00 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by 180guy I told him I would weld 100 nuts for 80$; he then called back and said he was just looking for some backyard welder to just stick them on and that I was not being fare. Thanks
Reply:That's fine if that's what he needs, but to say YOUR not being fare?? Walk away! He's probably got some half-cocked, get rich quick, dumb-*** idea. I think $80 doesn't sound unreasonable, even for just hot-tacking the things. O well, you'll get lots of these guys from Craigslist. Where in BC are you?B200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:180,Better to find out "right up front" what kind of guy you're dealing with than do the job and then have to fight for your money.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Thanks for all the info guys; its really helping me getting started in some sorta direction and knowing what to look out for. Everyone has to start out some where right? lol.  Bert I am in Langley and just noticed your in Victoria; how is work on the island? just as slim as it is here? Thanks again for the help guys I really appreciate it.
Reply:180,You may want to complete your personal info (including location) so people have a better idea of your background.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.Hey guys,I'm gonna throw in some additional fodder for many of the newbies & youngsters to contemplate with regards to any situations like this. First, you need to post the entire gamut of your query for those of us experienced with production runs to give you a fair evaluation of the job parameters & labor costs so you understand that any operation HAS to show a profit. You need to determine YOUR value first....are you in it to make a profit? Do you know how to set up for a production run? Can you quote a price-per-piece quickly enough in your head to give an estimate for any possible future incoming work? Do you have enough knowledge to comprehend the jig/fixture applications that would enhance your productivity & thus your profit margin. Like Bert, I am a production enthusiast who utilizes the jig/fixturing process to really boost my profits.Next, you better get used to those on "fishing expeditions" who will try to get your work for nothing. Don't get suckered into those so-called "quickies" that you find your losing your a$$ on after evaluating your consumable usage to do the job. If you quote a standard hourly rate, are you calculating your expenses in with your hourly rate? Is the customer furnishing all the materials?Last, do yourself a favor & once you quote a job & the potential customer blatantly scoffs at your quote, tell him to take a hike. Also, any future queries from said customer, simply refuse to take his work. Tell him to "go fishing" elsewhere. Or, you could just quote him a price 3 times the normal rate & see how bads he needs the work done. Don't negotiate any further.Hey SundownIII:   You are quite correct regarding RETIREMENT..... I thought I retired from my company, but the owner is doing some "at home" contracting & requested my services for some sub-contract work. Nice $$$. And, my shop is hummin' nicely right now with the landscape guys broken rigs & the auto accessories gig has been quite fruitful. I'm workin' more hours now than if I went back to work for them. I guess I'll never be retired because I look forward to each days' challenges. It is nice not to punch a clock though.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:180: Slow for the fact that my new shop isn't finished yet! Got some clients waiting for me when I'm going again. Excited to get back to it!!!!Well said Yorkie. Jigs/fixtures are as satisfying as what you build in them. I always love the guys that used to come in the old shop show room,look at a CD rack and brag to his buddy that he could make one for way cheaper. Yeah, just throw some rod stock together and yer good to go!!! It takes a lot to build a production ready CD rack. There are so many factors that have to be accounted for to make it work perfectly. Good luck 180.Bert200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:yorkie,Also, as you get older, you learn it sometimes isn't enough to work harder or longer.  Lot better to work smarter.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Thanks for the info guys!  And thanks for the tip on filling out the background stuff sundown.Hey Bert what kinda things are you doing in your shop? Repairs,new fab?Last edited by 180guy; 05-21-2010 at 12:50 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIyorkie,Also, as you get older, you learn it sometimes isn't enough to work harder or longer.  Lot better to work smarter.
Reply:Originally Posted by MetarinkaI agree with you sundown, but occasionally people do have everything in place they just don't have experience bidding jobs.for work like this I would create a standard rate (how many you can do in an hour realistically) and then divide to figure how many hours of work it is. You should have established your own overhead rate, plus any additional expenses you might want to break out if the job requires something non standard.  finally on repeating work like this is good to quote them by the batch not by the piece. That way later on you can hire a helper for $10/hr to do them twice the cash and net the profit.I personally have a target goal  of how much I want to make an hour, and i add that to the overhead rate.  I'm not working a charity and I don't want to do all the work to make $10/hr myself. Its different as I'm a welding engineer and I take contracts doing welding inspection/design/ certification and training.  My overhead is pretty low since I almost never take any welding jobs.
Reply:The first step in working this bid is to find and refine your process. If you 100% weld a 1/2" nut to a small piece of sheet metal the end product is going to resemble a spoon. Heat draw! To do this properly  you will need some type of fixture or fixtures that will hold components rigid during the fit-weld-cooling process. Designing this fixture, loading, cool time and unloading will consume time. I would get 50 or so nuts and plates, design fixtures, test produce X amount in one hour. Take your desired hourly rate + $10.00/hr for consumables + logistic cost and divide by X. I would then add 5% for the fixture and process design.Miller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180
Reply:Originally Posted by 180guyI am only advertising on craigslist looking for side welding jobs as I have been recently laid off. This guy contacted me and that is all the information i could get out of him. I told him I would weld 100 nuts for 80$; he then called back and said he was just looking for some backyard welder to just stick them on and that I was not being fare. Thanks
Reply:I have to addend the above and state "I am not a business of public accomodation", no phone available to the public, and no sign. So the above was no "chance happening" I work for RR rebuilders and a very few large equipment manufacturers. I'm still pissed and that was a very long time ago..."Cranky" Matt
Reply:Originally Posted by 180guyThanks for the info guys!  And thanks for the tip on filling out the background stuff sundown.Hey Bert what kinda things are you doing in your shop? Repairs,new fab?