hi frequency box ; arc to tig question

admin

just bought an old high freq box; and would  like some advice on how do i set it upit's a lincoln 5835 high freq box to tig weld with my ac/dc +/- lincoln arc welder i have a 200 amp air cooled torchthe unit looks like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/LINCOLN-HI-FREQ-...?pt=BI_Welders no...i didn't pay $500!...anyway could anyone give me some suggestions.. link to manual :http://content.lincolnelectric.com//...r/im/IM238.pdf also... convert arc to tig ...i've allready looked through all the posts on this subject (as well as on other internet sites) and wanted to ask some opinions I am not a welder, but my father is quite good with oxyacet and arc...never used a mig or tig.. also his eyes are not what they used to be.... we will be attempting to repair some rust on an old alfa i have (have sheetmetal i cut from another car...wish me luck)..... 1. I have a new (used once) lincoln ac/dc arc welder that i am going to try to do some tig welding with...it has ac and dc (+)(-) anyway was wondering if anyone had any specific recommendations in regard to this specific unit.....(settings, named equipment, other tips) as i said, thanks to this forum and others, i have a very good general idea on what to do....but am about to go out and buy what i need and wanted to check here before i do
Reply:You are going to need a water cooled torch.The air cooled torch will get really hot and the duty cycle will be something like 2/82 minutes weld, 8 minutes cool down time.
Reply:I tried the manual link, but it did not come up for me.We could use a good photo of your unit, and what parts and pieces came through it.  Did you get a gas regulator?As far as a 200 amp air cooled torch, it will not get hot unless you get in the area of 200 amps.  At 100 amps, I don't think that it will get uncomfortable.   If you want to see if the high frequency is working, you don't even need a welder, just plug in the HF unit, plug in the torch and the work cable, and see if you get a small arc between the torch and the work cable (ground).   It would be very low power, so you would not even need a welding helmet, (assuming the welder is turned off).I would start to see if you can check out the HF first, then check out the gas, and then figure out where to go from here.   Start small, check it out piece by piece, and see where you are.   You can do a lot to check it without even using the welder.One downside of the HF boxes is that the real TIG welders have a foot pedal to control the power.   You don't have to have one to TIG, but it helps.Maybe somebody has one of these HF boxes.RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:i really appreciate the responses..since i am at a loss on how to connect this hi freq unithere is the manual...my model is the 5853 which is covered http://content.lincolnelectric.com//.../im/IM238B.pdfif you have trouble with this link, i'll be happy to email to anyonethanks..i'll try your suggstion to see if the hf unit is workingi'm not sure how to hook this up since my welder has cables ...not lugs....i suppose i could jimmyrig it somehow, but i don't want to have more guts then brains, and do something without seeing if anyone else had and experience or suggestionsi was lucky enough to get a 200 amp air cooled gun, meter/argon, 25 foot hose from craigslistlast night....almost new conditionthanks again for your timei will try to post get a good photo tomorrowLast edited by alfaman42003; 08-17-2010 at 06:29 PM.
Reply:My employer just bought some new Lincoln Ideal arc ac/dc machines. I am doing an aluminum/carbon job so they bought a HF unit.You should have two lead sized inputs and outputs.  Work lead to the ground input of the HF and electrode lead to the electrode input. Work output should have a ground clamp, and the other output should have a stinger going to a gas block. You may or may not have a pedal with the HF unit. From the argon tank, you have argon hose, to gas block to tig torch. The trouble you have with a stick machine without pedal controls is that the pedal with the HF unit is only an on/off pedal, you can not control power with the HF unit unless your welder has a pedal control. Welding can still be done, its just harder to break the arc.UA Local 598
Reply:As far as lugs vs. cables, you could take a copper or aluminum bar,  bend it at 45 degrees, drill a hole in the bar, and then use the nut to attach the bar to the HF rig.  Then you could just take the ground clamp and hook it to one bar, and the stick stinger and hook it to the other bar.  Alternately, you could visit your local welding store, and ask them to make up a few short "jumper" cables to connect the welder and the HF unit.  They could make up a ground/work cable for the HF unit, or make an adapter so you could use your existing ground/work cable.The cabling is really the least of your problems, even though it may cost a few bucks.  The key is checking out the unit and verifying that all the parts work correctly.RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:thanks...good ideas...will try to post a pic tonightat least now i have a better idea what i need and/or have to do
Reply:These units were built to be used with the upright motor generator welders.you will need 115 volts ac and a stick welder output voltage to make it work.The water valve is used for turning tap water on and off for cooling a water cooled torch. Do not use  the valve with a closed loop cooler it over heats the pump.use the gas valve to control the argon gas. Hand or foot switch for turning HF on.Preset welder for the current needed for welding.
Reply:here are some pics of  the high freq unit and the welder....again..suggestions on how to hook up would be appreciated Attached Images
Reply:more pics Attached Images
Reply:The answers lie hidden on page 8 of the manual.   The two fat electrical cables are the input and output of the electrode.    To figure out which is the input and the output, trace the cables back to the "Air core transformer", and whichever side is connected to a 10 ohm resistor is the end that goes to the welder, the other end goes to the torch.By the way, the manual does leave a lot to be desired, I can see why you are confused.The label of the outlet is partially obscured by the plug, but it looks like that is the control receptacle.  A switch plugged into there will turn the HF on and off.There should be a ground wire that goes to the work.   It would be quite a bit smaller than the standard welding cables, since it does not pass welding current.   The existing welder work cable is what you use to hook to the work, the ground current does not go through the welder.You may have to take off the cover of the HF unit and send us more pictures, since you may have to look inside to be sure which cable is which.You should still play with the unit without hooking up the welder, this will help you understand it and lower the risk of damage.   Also, it is easier to figure out what is going on if you test the system a little at a time.RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:one of the two electrical cables coming out of the  HF machine is labeled "electrode"....i assume this hooks to the torch side (in my case torch clamp) of the arc welder...correct? or best guess?in regard to the other cable coming out of the HF box...i assume this hooks (or in my case clamps) to the other (ground) cable coming out of my arc welder.....the HFcable looks attached (internal'y) to the bolt that reads "to work" ....i assume i need to run a clamp/cable from that bolt to my work...correct?...Ricard, the plug you mention looks like it is for the starter on the torch...i traced backthe line to the switch attactched to the torch....i'll inclose some more pics and hopefully can clarifly ...i will take off the back of the machine and take photos if you think it'll help...thanks for you time in this puzzleplease note...i will be using the air cooled torch  setup pictured Attached ImagesLast edited by alfaman42003; 08-19-2010 at 10:19 PM.
Reply:one more where the arc start/ plugs into the  hf unit...again this is attacted to the torch Attached Images
Reply:You assumed correctly. The leads go to the welder. The torch and a lead to your work piececonnect to  the terminals. If the leads are not labeled. use a ohm meter to find the electrode lead. The lowest resistance is what you are looking for. Electrode is always negative in DC. AC does not care. You want both weld circuits to go through the HF box and come out at the two weld terminals. Circuits in the box need to see the weld voltage and currant. The old two wire plug is where you plug in the HF start switch. A lamp cord and plug with a switch will work. The 3 position switch ( cont.  off    start). Off turns the HF off. cont. Turns the HF on all the time when the start switch is closed. Used for AL. The start position will have HF when the start switch is closed, but after TIG arc is going the HF will turn off. Used for stainless and  mild steel ect.HF will not turn on in start unless weld voltage is applied to the leads. The voltage sensing circuit need this to operate.Most TIG welding is done with negative voltage on the torch. If positive voltage is on the torch the tungsten will melt real fast.  good luck
Reply:Those additional pictures help a lot.   An ohmmeter or voltmeter would help you figure out which heavy cable is which. Even a test lamp would be good enough.So the way you have the cables hooked to the HF unit looks right, but I can't tell from here if it is reversed or not.You will need to buy a ground cable to go from the HF unit to the work.  I note that the TIG torch that you bought has a built in manual gas valve.  There is an automatic gas valve built into the HF unit, I think that is a better way to go, assuming that it works.  But you can start with what you have, and then change the gas piping later.  If you could return the TIG torch, I would get one without the manual gas valve but with a lug fitting rather than the quick-connect that is on there.You still need to test the HF feature to see if it is working.  If you hook up a switch to that little two wire outlet on the front, that should turn on and off the HF.  You could just use an insulated screwdriver between the two big lugs on the front panel to see if you see a spark.  (Do this with the welder turned off).RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:thank you....i will be doing mild steel....i know i set the arc welder to dc...but do i set it to dc (+) or dc (-)i guess i don't need the hf unit for mild steel, but for starting the tig arc, it would be cleaner.if i used it..is this correct,,,,any other advantages in using the hf unit when welding mild steel (car sheetmetal).....appreciate it...have a much better idea now