Breaker question, help.

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Ok, my wife and I are renting a house from her parents for a while so we can pretty much do what we want but it's still their house. I don't want to sink too much money into this. In the back I have a detached shop where all my tools and truck are kept. There is already one 220 outlet coming from the small panel within the shop. No room for others. the other four or five are all for lights and 110 outlets. Here's my problem, my MM175 calls for a 20a breaker. When I plug in my old 225a Airco AC stick, the breaker pops after about a 4" bead. My dad says the stick need a larger breaker but i don't have the room. Any ideas? I don't want to switch breakers all the time. Should I look into a sub panel?Thanks guys,mikeI do understand that's why I drive a Toyota!!
Reply:It's not quite as easy as just changing the breaker.  The wire size should match the breaker.  For instance 10 ga wire usually calls for a 30 amp breaker.  If you were to install a 50 amp breaker with the 10 ga wire, guess what is gonna happen when the circuit is overloaded.If the existing 220 V circuit in the shop has 6 ga wire, I wouldnt hesitate to change the breaker to a 50 amp.  Your hh175 should have internal protection and will run just fine on a 50 amp breaker.If the existing 220V circuit does NOT have the correct wire size for 50 amp service, and the panel is full, then you can disconnect that circuit and remove the existing breaker, pull a new wire, and install the correct breaker in that slot .Running your hh175 off of the 50 amp breaker will work great.
Reply:Hi Jedi,What JMB says is good advice, and I'm not an electrician by a long shot. A couple of  questions that comes to mind is the following:1. Is this panel in the shop already a sub-panel for the shop? Or, is it the circuit panel for the whole house? Some old homes in my neck of the woods only have a few fuses in the panel and illegally wire for 220V.2. One way to know for sure that you really have the capability for 220V is to look outside at the number of lines coming into the service panel from the pole, you should have a ground and 2 separate 120volt lines (3 lines coming into the house from the pole on the street).regards,Seth
Reply:Thanks guys,The panel is seperate from the house, well there's not a drop run out to the shop unless it's underground. Yes the wire is probably #6. It fills the recepticle fairly well and it's stranded. It is alot larger than 10ga wire. I'm just worried about burning up my Miller. Why do want such a small breaker? My dad even said it should be higher than that. Thanks again,mikeI do understand that's why I drive a Toyota!!
Reply:Originally posted by 4xJedi Thanks guys,I'm just worried about burning up my Miller. Why do want such a small breaker? My dad even said it should be higher than that. Thanks again,mike
Reply:Oops, What I meant to ask is, why does Miller say to use a 20a breaker? That's what I meant by small. It's in the manual and I called to verify. I put the 20a in per Miller.  Sounds like I'll be ok swapping up to a larger breaker.mikeI do understand that's why I drive a Toyota!!
Reply:There are regular breakers and slow blow breaker (they handle more front end surge better).  Also your breaker may be old and abused causing it to trip sooner than it would if it was new. Maybe you should look into a slow blow.  But if you do go to a bigger breaker it is ok, as long as the wire feeding it is large enough (and it sound like your wiring is over size for the breaker)Fire that baby up!Bob Sigmon
Reply:as long as the wire feeding it is large enough (and it sound like your wiring is over size for the breaker)
Reply:8 ga. is rated for 40 amps.
Reply:4xJedi,I had a buddy who knows much more about this stuff than I do install a sub panel off the main {no more room in the main}. We used 6-3 wire and a 50 amp breaker. It runs my hobart stick machine with no problem."All that is required for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing"
Reply:JMB is giving you good information. Find out the wire size and you will know what size breaker you can put on it. If your Miller says it will run on a 240volt >20amp circuit that is the minimum it will work at. If you plug it into a 240 volt 60amp circuit it will still work and won't hurt it. The stick machine needs a much larger circuit>ie. the 60 amp or larger circuit, but it will work on a 60 unless you have it maxed out, then it might trip the 60 amp breaker.#6 romex wire will handle 65 amps. If the wire is an 8 you'd have to use 40 amp breaker. Less power for the stick but wire welder will work fine. If thats the size feeding the whole garage then lights and anything else plugged in will be sucking power also. That means  cut everything else off (but lights) while welding. Hope this helps , I'm a licensed electrician.David.David
Reply:David,          I think you had a typo in your responce. A 6-3 Romex will handle 55 Amps.  You have to derate Romex from a 90 degree wire down to a 60 degree wire because of it being bundled. If you were to run 6 gauge THHN wire loose in a conduit, it would be rated up to 75 amps (of course depending on lenght of run , also quoted from memory so check your Ugly's or code book...mine's at work).  Dog1