virtually no field-welding?!

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!what do you guys think?
Reply:It looks as though the future is trying to get rid of welders on jobsites.  I better go to robot school
Reply:I think that is pretty amazing stuff!!!And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Field welding of structures is already rare.  This system will get rid of bolting... well at least reduce bolting.  I am wondering if the connection plates would be cheaper than the bolts and holes.  If there is a screw up there will be no "on the ground" modifications.  The beams will have to take a trip to the boneyard and new beams delivered.   Interesting connection idea.
Reply:Damn! Why didn't I think of that. I used to play with lego's. And do you know how many steel shelves I have assembled? Oh well, I missed another, Trillion dollar idea!"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Wonder how expensive it is compared to conventional plated & bolted?Might be a good system to use in SW AZ with all the seismic activity here.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manDamn! Why didn't I think of that. I used to play with lego's. And do you know how many steel shelves I have assembled? Oh well, I missed another, Trillion dollar idea!
Reply:That is a Revolutionary idea that is decades over-due....Yes, I realize the decrease in jobs for welders in this area, but if you were to step outside of the established "Comfort Zone" and realize that THIS is what Technology is FOR, it IS pretty amazing.Technology is SUPPOSED to Free Up workers from Manual Labour, so that things are SAFER, More Efficient, and Cost Effective... The end result is so that we are able to pursue other more important, and enjoyable things.Look up Jaques Fresco, and The Venus Project.Later,Jason
Reply:Technology waits for no-one. . No where's my stone ax? I've got some wood to cut."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Lotechman is right, there is little to no welding on steel erection sites today, except for change orders or screw ups.I can't see all that cnc connector machining being cheaper than a plasma cut plate, a bolt and a bolt gun.  Nor would it be faster, it would require longer lead time at the machine/fab shop which would make up for slightly faster erection time on site.Of course the manufacturer of this system will charge a premium in connector costs because of his superior technology.Seems to be primarily designed for buildings.  Not sure it would that useful for bridge building.Might be good for the military or constructing the first moon base but down here on planet earth I don't see it revolutionizing the construction industry.Or I could be wrong."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:Geez... I was joking. I can't afford robot school.
Reply:fine for large scale new construction.   Its very detailing dependant and any screw ups will be magnified 10X.Most of my work is remodel and moment frame work.  None of which would be bothered by this tech.    The Simpson pre fab'ed moment frames are much more of a threat to my business.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by noriteSeems to be primarily designed for buildings.  Not sure it would that useful for bridge building.Might be good for the military ....
Reply:Originally Posted by Black WolfThat is a Revolutionary idea that is decades over-due....Yes, I realize the decrease in jobs for welders in this area, but if you were to step outside of the established "Comfort Zone" and realize that THIS is what Technology is FOR, it IS pretty amazing.Technology is SUPPOSED to Free Up workers from Manual Labour, so that things are SAFER, More Efficient, and Cost Effective... The end result is so that we are able to pursue other more important, and enjoyable things.Look up Jaques Fresco, and The Venus Project.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI  was thinking it might be a great way to build temporary emergency bridges, say to replace  fire damaged highway spans on major roadways. Something like that could easily be prebuilt and ready to go at a moments notice and installed in a day or so. Add or suptract sections as needed for length.
Reply:I don't think this will be as revolutionary as they would like to suggest. Their prices couldn't be lower than common methods, their advantage lies in ease of engineering and speed of construction. Speed doesn't seem to be a big advantage since framing doesn't take that long anyway. The ease of engineering will be their most powerful ally, lots of engineers are lazy and like to avoid liability, for evidence look at the popularity of strongwalls and hardi-frames in wood frame building, they are not stronger than shear walls built on site, but their easily available tables of strength info makes them attractive to engineers. The greater cost of steel framing will offset the engineering costs more than wood framing could.  Also, these Lego's might be great for square buildings, but try to do curves and funny angles and any advantage returns to local fabrication. And as lotechman said before, any screw ups will not be repairable on site, meaning big delays.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:fortyonethirty,All your points are more than reasonable, and you sound like you know a great deal more on this topic than I do... The only thing that I would wish to draw your attention to from the Introduction Video is the example of the company erecting the 10 story, 100 foot tall tower in 3 days using only 5 Iron Workers...Drawing on your knowledge on this subject, does this sound anywhere near the norm that you are familiar with?  Would any of the crews you have seen, or worked with, be able to accomplish  a similiar feat, in a simliar time frame?I do not work in this area of the trade, so I can only go by what I see, and the last building I saw going up was the local Museum and Art Gallery, and it darn near took until the Second Coming...So to ME, this seems like a drastic improvement.If this technology provides for more efficient, and SAFER construction, with less manual labour, then I personally view it as an improvement.Your mileage may vary.Later,Jason
Reply:Originally Posted by Black Wolffortyonethirty,All your points are more than reasonable, and you sound like you know a great deal more on this topic than I do... The only thing that I would wish to draw your attention to from the Introduction Video is the example of the company erecting the 10 story, 100 foot tall tower in 3 days using only 5 Iron Workers...Drawing on your knowledge on this subject, does this sound anywhere near the norm that you are familiar with?  Would any of the crews you have seen, or worked with, be able to accomplish  a similiar feat, in a simliar time frame?I do not work in this area of the trade, so I can only go by what I see, and the last building I saw going up was the local Museum and Art Gallery, and it darn near took until the Second Coming...So to ME, this seems like a drastic improvement.If this technology provides for more efficient, and SAFER construction, with less manual labour, then I personally view it as an improvement.Your mileage may vary.
Reply:That’s a cool system, but it still relys on the biggest weakness in the construction trade….. the nuckle-heads doing the footings.   Will
Reply:Originally Posted by 4on12...still relys on the biggest weakness in the construction trade….. the nuckle-heads doing the footings.
Reply:Originally Posted by Black Wolffortyonethirty,All your points are more than reasonable, and you sound like you know a great deal more on this topic than I do... The only thing that I would wish to draw your attention to from the Introduction Video is the example of the company erecting the 10 story, 100 foot tall tower in 3 days using only 5 Iron Workers...Drawing on your knowledge on this subject, does this sound anywhere near the norm that you are familiar with?  Would any of the crews you have seen, or worked with, be able to accomplish  a similiar feat, in a simliar time frame?I do not work in this area of the trade, so I can only go by what I see, and the last building I saw going up was the local Museum and Art Gallery, and it darn near took until the Second Coming...So to ME, this seems like a drastic improvement.If this technology provides for more efficient, and SAFER construction, with less manual labour, then I personally view it as an improvement.Your mileage may vary.
Reply:How much disassembly is needed and what is the lead time for replacement of a column and beam which are damaged when a wind gust catches a beam and slams it into that "accurate to 1/6000 of an inch" connector on a column?  If the columns and beams can carry the loads ivolved in a concrete floor, then there's a lot of mass making uncontrolled contact.  I've seen some impressive crane operations,but the operator can't control the wind or equipment failure - "How did that lever jump into 'freespool'?"A "cookie cutter" building design with all square corners and box-shaped "rooms" might be able to substitute pieces from another area while replacement parts are fabricated, but pieces for some of the curved designs in the video aren't likely to be interchangable.Just the opinion of a "natural shelter practical engineer"  (sounds better than "shade tree mechanic" ;-) who's been fixing other people's mistakes for a long time.JohnLast edited by papaof2; 10-05-2010 at 01:15 PM.Reason: spelling
Reply:I hate to tell you guys, but the reality is that a system like this is good for EVERYONE. I build buildings...... I am at present working in heavy industry. The basis for this system being the foundation, they simply get the foundation correct.John (papa0f2) they in no way said they build the system to 1/6000 of an inch. All they boasted via CNC is the tolerances the machine holds when making the mating surfaces. Look at it this way; every crankshaft in the world is held to similar standards as they are looking for from their machines. Those column connectors look to be able to correct a good 1/4", which is about normal for a rough steel framing structure of that nature. The system is a LOT safer for installers. They set the horizontal in place, and it locks in and can't fall and kill people. Also, the do not have to bolt it up immediately, they can set the 2-4 pieces, and then adjust them a bit to get the fit.As for being concerned that the engineers won't be able to get the angles right, and the pieces will be useless?? It's a possibility; always is. But the REALITY is if you are contracting a building of substantial size, you are working with people who build everything from AutoCad, and there are few mistakes in the steel. Especially radius bent steel. Those are BIG money, and it takes a couple of field verifications and sign offs before anyone bends an I beam. I also don't feel you can point tot his as a system to outsource labor. There will still be field installers, and crane operators. No doubt, these will be 100% field verified by deputy inspectors, and the job will still need a full field staff on site. No cutback in masons, electricians, HVAC mechanical. All field connections as it were still need to be done.But will it get done FASTER?? Likely, a lot faster. That is important when you don't own cranes, tractors, etc. and you need to get them on site and pay for rental and storage on them. It's a huge deal when you need to rent a lot to store materials at several thousand a month. And, in many cases, there are performance bonuses tied to finishing a project early of that size. And, anything you can do to cut back on paying prevailing wage for an extra 6 months to a dozen workers is worth it, if you are a businessman.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.