Welder welding on its self ???

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I am sure this has been discussed but I had no luck finding it. I am making a rack for holding cables, tig torch, and foot control for my PM 350MP that will bolt on to the welder. I am going to tig it for the practice. I wanted to bolt the mounts onto the welder and tack them into place using its own tig functions (lift arc no hf). I would then unbolt it and weld it together on the bench. Obviously I don't want to cause any damage to the welder by welding on its self while tacking so if this is a bad Idea I can tack those parts with my other mig but would rather tig it if it is safe.ThanksKen
Reply:Don't weld on the welder Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Even with a different welder?
Reply:Some of Miller's engine drive welders show welding them down to the truck bed as a mounting method.  I have welded on my truck with my Bobcat mounted (grounded) to the truck.  Welding on the Bobcat chassis itself would be no different than welding on the truck chassis, when they are grounded together.  I have used other welding machines running from shore power to weld on the truck chassis too, with the Bobcat mounted and grounded to the truck.  This would be no different than welding directly on the Bobcat's chassis with another welder powered from another input source.  As with welding on any structure or vehicle with it's own electrical system, place your ground clamp as near to the area you will be welding and don't run the circuit through bearings, electric motors, etc.Last edited by DesertRider33; 10-19-2010 at 03:59 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Welding on the machine with the Mig gun or Tig Torch:Most likely the paint would provide an insulation on the machine but I wouldn't want to bet on itEver ground out the Gun on the Work Clamp to clip off the wire?I wouldn't even want to weld on the PM 350MP with another Welder- too much at risk in my book- dat be a nice welder with fancy electronics.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Welder welding on its self???Funny story here.got a call one day from an old welder friend across the way that wanted to come over and use my stuff to fix his welder.  Sure I said and here he came.  He had the oil pan from his SA200 with a gobbed up nipple tacked onto the side of it and a huge burn through next to it.  Oil was all over the outside of the pan.Looking at this mess I had to ask, "What in the heck happened here?".  He said he had the welder hanging off his hoist and with it running tried to weld on this pipe nipple to the oil pan that he then planned to drill out and put a quick change hose and valve on it, but when he would strike the arc the machine would rock back and forth which caused him to burn the big hole in it (pretty thin material here)  and with the oil coming out the hole he was then unable to weld it.  I laughed for about 2 years after hearing that.  I must agree with DesertRider33 here.  I've welded on my truck bed with my welder, other welders, and more than one welder at a time without harm.  I've even welded down a few contractor machines with their own power, again without harm.  But I can also see a problem which I remember having one time.  I was helping out a pilot friend with a job he had and welded some 16" gas pipe in a big plant here using a little buzz box Lincoln he had at the time.  I was up in the rafters inside that plant and didn't have enough heat to weld with so I had that little box really cranked up when he came around.  He yelled up at me and said, "what you trying to do - blow up my welder?".  He said my ground clamp had come off the steel support post it was clamped to and I was only using the welders electric cable as my ground.  I told him to either put the cable back on or turn me up about 50 cause I don't have enough heat!!!!!    That could present a problem I think.  I know that electric cable was sure enough getting hot that day.Just a though.good luck guys
Reply:Originally Posted by KGIORI am sure this has been discussed but I had no luck finding it. I am making a rack for holding cables, tig torch, and foot control for my PM 350MP that will bolt on to the welder. I am going to tig it for the practice. I wanted to bolt the mounts onto the welder and tack them into place using its own tig functions (lift arc no hf). I would then unbolt it and weld it together on the bench. Obviously I don't want to cause any damage to the welder by welding on its self while tacking so if this is a bad Idea I can tack those parts with my other mig but would rather tig it if it is safe.ThanksKen
Reply:"I told him to either put the cable back on or turn me up about 50 cause I don't have enough heat!!!!!"  Now that was funny Slowhand Ed,Those are exactly my concerns.DestertRider,If your XMT is running from your Bobcat then it is grounded to the truck. If you are welding something that is on your truck bed then that is all part of the same grounding and the XMT has electronics in it. Have you ever had that scenario?Thanks,ken
Reply:Hey Matt,Was HF being used when that happened?Ken
Reply:I'm not telling you to go ahead on your unit but I TIG'd up the shelf mounts on my 180 SD with itself http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=26494&page=3 (post #52) and tacked its electrode holder rack brackets with the MM200 keeping the ground clamps as close to the weld points as possible.Also tacked up the shelf mounts for the MM200 with itself while in place too http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=28376&page=2 (post #43).Unless I missed it, couldn't find anything in the 180 SD manual stating that one shouldn't weld on it but . . .MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by KGIOR"I told him to either put the cable back on or turn me up about 50 cause I don't have enough heat!!!!!"  Now that was funny Slowhand Ed,Those are exactly my concerns.DestertRider,If your XMT is running from your Bobcat then it is grounded to the truck. If you are welding something that is on your truck bed then that is all part of the same grounding and the XMT has electronics in it. Have you ever had that scenario?Thanks,ken
Reply:I understand, and appreciate all of the concerns posted by the various members here...Having said that, when I made the custom frame for my PowerMig 350MP, I welded on the frame while the welder WAS bolted to it...I used ANOTHER machine, a PowerMig 300 to weld on some bracketry etc after I got everything in to place, and the PowerMig 350MP was UNPLUGGED at the time.Did that project over 2 years ago...The welder is none the worse for the experience.I did not, and would not, weld with the PowerMig 350MP that was bolted to the frame.Have a Good Evening.Later,Jason
Reply:Originally Posted by KGIORHey Matt,Was HF being used when that happened?Ken
Reply:I mounted my SA-250 to the trailer with welded clips, welded by said welder to said welder. No troubles with the old mule, I would'nt do it to a new Vantage or Trailblazer though. Then again I weld on the back of my truck with the Trailblazer mounted  in it and have years of no trouble from doing it.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingThen again I weld on the back of my truck with the Trailblazer mounted  in it and have years of no trouble from doing it.
Reply:I am close to mounting the legs onto the bolted brackets now so I will be calling Lincoln tomorrow to hear what they have to say. Ken
Reply:I talked to Lincoln tech support this morning and was told no problem that it won't hurt the welder. He did point out that I need to make sure that I have a good work lead connection so it doesn't interfere with the safety ground. It looks like I'm gonna give it a try. Ken