Saturday's Metal Abuse..

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Did some more playing around this A.M.More "Smash and Crash" as we might say..Same subjects as yesterday..Put them in the press and put the pressure to them..Lets all see what happens..Under pressure..Boink!Dent from press..Penetration..Don't look like much penetration..Maybe .020 deep..But in the end it put up with some abuse so the strength is there somewhat..But look close.It did'nt let go on the "HAZ"The weld broke down the middle..Could not tell you how much P.S.I. it took..The guage on the press is in the "Danger Zone" even shut off..But by the dent in the tube some pressure was there..Next the unbeveled piece.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:No bevel's turn..Pretty much the same results but it took more pressure to let go judjing by the "dent" size..Up next.Mild Steel.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Mild steel tube fused..1/8" wall 1.5 O.D.It survived the hammer treatment also but put up no fight whatsoever in the press..Penetration..For laffs some flat stock 1/8" fused..One side fused nicely but the other looked as if the gas was off..Go figure.. And thats todays "Smash and Crash".....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Wow ZapThoughs arn't the results I was expecting to see.Nice info and test.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:Disclaimer:  I have no experience doing fusing, buit I know what it is.I would think that it would be possible to achieve more penetration in the fusing process. Couldn't you just use more heat or time in the joint?  I assume it comes down to the balancing act between maximum penetration and burn-through.But WTF do I know...Nice post Zap,  always fun to see what you come up with.Hobart 140 Handler w/ gasHyperTherm Powermax 380 Plasmaoxy/acetylene
Reply:How big is the press - 20 ton, 40 ton or 100 ton? Very good results, looks like it took some big pressure from the dents.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:even tho it broke, and the penetration didn;t really seem like much, i have a feeling that it woudl still work for about 90% of projects like this. yes, some projects would REQUIREfiller, but they look great and held up. this will probably open a whole nother can of whooopie, but can we see what happens with a joint WITH filler? i'm curious to see how much differently it reacts to the pressure. same circumstances (same tube, bevel and no bevel, 1/8" wall), but WITH filler this time.Thanks Zap.Later,Andy
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick MoranDisclaimer:  I have no experience doing fusing, buit I know what it is.I would think that it would be possible to achieve more penetration in the fusing process. Couldn't you just use more heat or time in the joint?  I assume it comes down to the balancing act between maximum penetration and burn-through.But WTF do I know...Nice post Zap,  always fun to see what you come up with.
Reply:a much better test than the BFH. the fact that parts of the tube yielded before the weld broke doesn't mean much when it comes to fatigue though- the whole point of fatigue is that the force required to cause a failure is lower than the yield strength. it takes time and many thousands of 'cycles'. the autogenous (fused) mild steel penetration pic shows a great example of porosity
Reply:the autogenous (fused) mild steel penetration pic shows a great example of porosity
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThanks Rick..Yes more heat and less speed on the positioner will make deeper penetration but...At 60 psi?How strong does it really have to be?? ...zap!
Reply:id also be intrested in seeing what happens with a beveled joint with filler addedHave we all gone mad?
Reply:When you say Steel wont put up a fight why do you say that? I though steel is strong than Aluminum and Stainless steel. Or does it have to do with the No filler with steel thing.I'm kinda confused now.Also what were the settings?   DC electrode Negative
Reply:Where's McCormick Jr?     It seems that the fusing he so much likes didn't do so well.  It doesn't look like it even bent the pipe any at all.
Reply:Bend the pipe?  It's schedule 40 - dear god.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jon KBend the pipe?  It's schedule 40 - dear god.
Reply:Originally Posted by BikespotWhen you say Steel wont put up a fight why do you say that? I though steel is strong than Aluminum and Stainless steel. Or does it have to do with the No filler with steel thing.I'm kinda confused now.Also what were the settings?   DC electrode Negative
Reply:The only chrom moly we have is solid..Pre heated before welding to anything..Mostly used for roller journals in hi-downpressure applications.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloYes, Zap was showing how the properties of SS are different from mild steel, CR or HR, and when they are welded, the mild steel loses something in the process that needs the filler to replace. If you look closely, the material got brittle, and fractured. It didn't show signs of tearing. Zap, if you have any 4130 tubing, can you do the same no filler test for me?? I know they use 4130 filler on it, so I was wondering if it changes and needs the filler, or not. I have no press to give me an idea; I just usually go out into the desert, and see what breaks first.
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidWhere's McCormick Jr?     It seems that the fusing he so much likes didn't do so well.  It doesn't look like it even bent the pipe any at all.
Reply:Originally Posted by BikespotSo your saying when welding Mild steel without filler it looses something , which causes it to fail much easier.
Reply:Originally Posted by littlefuzzWell, I try to make every weld as strong as I possibly can.  Unless I want it to break
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloYes. When mild is fusion welded with no filler, the changes are molecular, and are centered around the metal crystals lining up in a manner as to make the weld very brittle. That is why ER70s2 and s6 filler have such specific amounts of silicon, manganese, copper, etc. It adds material into the weld, and it flows into the parent metal to create a tough junction that has better alignments of the crystals. All at a level down so low, you'd need electron microscopes to see it. Or, you can see it in larger view during destructive testing as this, or in a tear/ shear test. How the weld or parent metal fails and where tell the story. And it will show other things to the tester, like if heat was good, penetration, porosity, how the gas coverage was, the cleanliness of the material, lots of things we normally never see, because let's face it: 90% of all welds are done, they look good, get painted, and that's the last we see of them.
Reply:As always Zap. You are informative and entertaining.  If you beveled the pipe and got 100% penetration, how much stronger would it be?mm135HTP Invertig 201 With water cooler9" Southbend LatheLots of hand tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by papasloanAs always Zap. You are informative and entertaining.  If you beveled the pipe and got 100% penetration, how much stronger would it be?Good infothanksThe Welder Shop has great deals and reviews on Hobart, Miller and Lincoln Welders.
Reply:Originally Posted by BikespotI see   But its alright to not add filler with SS because this does not happen. How about Aluminum.
Reply:Zap,Thanks for the destructive tests.  You've proved (to me at least) that even though your fused welds look OK from the top (your workmanship was fine) the depth of penetration of the welds was totally inadequate and the total strength of the joint was waaaaay understrength compared to the parent material.  To compare the strength of the stainless steel, take a piece of the pipe/tube the same overall length as your welded pieces and put THAT in the press.  Crank on it and see how strong it is and how far it bends without failure.Also, with the shallow weld penetration, you ended up with a seam between the two pieces.  That is just a crevice and trap point between two pieces of pipe/tube.  Crud and corrosion -will- start there.  Bad, bad, bad, especially for usage in sanitary/food conditions.Again, thanks for doing the tests and posting the pics.  It has been informative.
Reply:See "Smash and Crash Round 2' thread.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.