how do you guys price out metal?

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This might seem like a weird question, but when I'm doing a project I like to price out all my materials so I know I'm getting the best value, or cost/performance ratio.The local supplier has a crapload of different types of steel in different sizes and whatnot... and I don't want to sit on the phone for a million hours pricing out different things. They don't have a catalogue or an inventory list so there is no literature to base my pricing off.do you guys have any tips? Today will be the first day I buy steelAlso, they priced me a 4'x4' piece of 3/8 steel for $115. Is that high or typical?
Reply:For a general catalogue, go to russel metals here http://www.russelmetals.com/english/...cts/index.html. This gives you shapes and grades typically available. For price, a super rough quick estimate is $.60 per pound (currently. a year from now it could be double or half that) for heavy sections, smaller sections are usually a little more. This gets you in the ballpark to estimate a project and nearly finalize a design. Then I call the local supplier for price and availability, with only 1 or 2 options instead of 2 dozen options.JasonXMT 350 MPA Dynasty 280DXSuitcase 8RC / OptimaSpoolmatic 30AThermco Ar / C02 mixerAssorted O/A gear
Reply:Simplest way is to call all your local suppliers once to get a price on a basic piece -- like 1" square tubing in 16ga.  When I did it, I was surprised to see the gap between the least and most expensive (almost triple).  I now regularly go to the place that's the cheapest, which also happens to be one of the closest.  (That probably means I live in the wrong part of town, doesn't it?   )Long term, there might be other issues that are important to you.  But I'm not passing my costs along to a customer, so for me price is king.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:Taiden, you have to consider the price per pound and for cut pieces there will be a cut charge.Spend a little time with the steel salesman and learn how to do most of his work for him. This way when you call you have the list, which is cut, which is random length and your calculations on weight. Then the only thing is verification on cut prices and delivery charge.For plate, bars and rounds steel weighs .2836lbs per cubic inch, most folks fudge it up from that number a bit. For tubing it's convenient to work with pounds per ft of length, published in the steel suppliers catalog.Matt
Reply:I think that the key to doing business today is to find a supplier that will sell you odds and ends at a reduced rate.  Then all you have to do is buy up what you can get at a discount.  I never turn down good steel if the price is right.  The people that gets themselves into financial trouble is the ones that refuses to keep something in inventory that is not used very often.It's been my experience that the day after you throw it away, you will need it.At some point, you need to hire a  person to roam the scrap yards and pick up odds and ends.The last time I bought used steel at the scrap yard, I got 60 lbs for $35 and felt like I was being robbed.A couple of days later, I needed a piece of tubing for a old trailer project I was working on and they charged me $9 for one piece of tubing - 1/2 inside diameter, about .120 wall.  16 inches long.$10 for a pin 24 inches long - 1/2 diameter.So = $19 for two small pieces of steel (probably 5 lbs total) vs 65 lbs of structural steel for $35The scrap yard can be your best bet - but you have to have someone that is there when it comes in to get the best pieces.   Maybe paying a small finders fee to one of the scrap yard employee's in return for the favor of having them keep a eye out for anything that you might need, and putting it off to the side for you, and calling you to come and look at it and pick it up.The way we do business in the future - is going to be much different then what it was 10 years ago...
Reply:Create a list of the basic types of stock you need. Then send an email to suppliers asking for price per foot and keep it around for planning cost. You will find the small shops will be cheaper. Then look at prices per pound from scrap dealers and note that. I often find many of my materials from there.
Reply:Thanks all, yet another fine example of you guys going out of your way to give a newbie very good things to consider.I learn more in five minutes here than I feel I could in a year of finding out the expensive way. as for the price of the 4'x4'x3/8", that was a piece that they had laying around. I would think that would be reduced price, but it's almost like they charged me for the cut costs and all that. But, I don't know this for sure, I just feel that's expensive. Maybe that's typical.
Reply:looks like they charged you about $.47 a pound for the plate.Thats a little higher than what I pay for drops,  which is $.40 a pound.XMT 350 MPa, w/D52-DTA 185 TSWHarris of
Reply:Thats not too high a price on that plate. In fact I would guess they sold it cheap as a remanant.
Reply:I don't worry about price of the metal until I have a design for the part being fabricated and have decided on material size needed for the design and application.  At that point, I make a list of the different material sizes/shapes that will go into the project and count up how many feet I need of each.I call the supplier and tell them I'm making a quote and need pricing on so many sticks of this and so many sheets of that.  They give me the prices, I add up the tax and any markup I want on it.  I sometimes add any cushion I think I might need, to cover material cost increases and figure that number into my job estimate to the customer.  Sometimes costs do change between time of estimate and time of starting the job.  Many times you give an estimate and don't hear anything for a long time, then out of the blue, the customer calls saying he wants you to do the job.  I had someone call just the other day on a gate estimate I gave over a year ago.  I had long since forgotten about him.To aid in pricing, I keep recent receipts and quotes from the metal yard so I don't have to call them every time I need the same piece of metal over and over again.  Sometimes their prices change, but usually not too far off from very recent pricing.  If I haven't bought a certain size of metal in a year, I just call for the price cause most likely, it's not the same.  If a supplier doesn't normally carry a particular metal and has to order it, the price will be more than buying through another supplier that stocks that metal regularly.  I go to whichever supplier I know normally carries that thing first.  If it's scrap I'm after, I know which ones have the best selection of pipe, aluminum, stainless, etc, so I don't drive all over town wasting time/money searching for a scrap deal.  Calling doesn't usually help, as they seldom know offhand all the things they have and usually just say come over and look.I also try to keep my dealings on new metal mostly with one supplier that normally carries what I usually need at a good price.  I don't do alot of price hopping.  As long as I know they're typically in an acceptable range compared to the others, I go with my usual yard.  Once in a while they're way high and I have to go somewhere else.  Usually they're right in there, so the hassle/time/gas of calling around and driving accross town costs more than the small amount of money saved trying to get the lowest price.Along that note, I've found that developing a good relationship with a good supplier can net a little better pricing and/or service in the long run.  When I do need that special order item that nobody around carries, they go a little easier on the cost than if I was just another joe blow that walked in asking.  My closest metal yard and the one I use the most, everyone knows me as soon as I walk in.  The counter guys even know my voice when I call, before I say my name.  I like that kind of relationship in business.  I'm that way with my local welding supplier, powdercoater and the shop I use for bending and shearing.  Used to be that way with the local mom & pop hardware store too, until they went out of business.  I miss that.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Along that note, I've found that developing a good relationship with a good supplier can net a little better pricing and/or service in the long run.  When I do need that special order item that nobody around carries, they go a little easier on the cost than if I was just another joe blow that walked in asking.  My closest metal yard and the one I use the most, everyone knows me as soon as I walk in.  The counter guys even know my voice when I call, before I say my name.  I like that kind of relationship in business.  I'm that way with my local welding supplier, powdercoater and the shop I use for bending and shearing.  Used to be that way with the local mom & pop hardware store too, until they went out of business.  I miss that.
Reply:I started by shopping prices, but once I found a place that was usually competitive I decided to stick to the same supplier for a few reasons.  The biggest is that now that they know me they tend to give me free stuff when I am looking for small bits, 4' of 1/2" bar, a big of angle etc.  The other is that they are willing to work with me on figuring out ways to do stuff more cheaply, such as avoiding having to cut certain sizes of plate.When I do need a cut, they will often just cut it for me for free while I am standing there.I have learned to give them lead time since they tend to deal with structural steel more than the smaller stuff that I need, but again, the relationship makes everything just run smoother and more pleasantly.Hobart LX235Victor 250 Oxy-Acetylene Rig (welding and cutting)Bobcat 773F-350, 1999, 4x4, 16' 10K# trailerOutdoor Wood Burner - 10 cords/year
Reply:I just bought a sheet of each, 3/8" 4X8 and it was 183.00 1/2" 4X8 was 302.00Miller XMT 304 CC/CVSyncrowave 180 SDLincoln PowerMig 255XTTermalDynamics 52Lincoln 305GComlpete machine shop to back it up
Reply:I just got a 8" x 18" x 1/2" drop for freeand some 11g drops for free also, 4"x15" and 3"x27"I'm going to use the 6x12 as a little welding surface for practice until i can pony up for a larger more usable setupI'm really pumped, the place I went to had a LOT of 3/8" drops... like 48" x 6". It would be perfect for one of those 'skeleton' type tables that I would like to buildThe place that gave me the free steel will be getting all of my business. The good news is it's next door to my welding supply/gas supply place. Last edited by Taiden; 10-25-2010 at 03:30 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by LarrysmachineI just bought a sheet of  3/8" 4X8 and it was 183.00
Reply:where i live here in mn we have 1 place that all the small shops buy from (learned that the hard way ). They kind of have a monopoly they can charge whatever they want for eg a 6ft piece of 2x2 angle 1/4 in 32.00  i needed it but thought it was rather steep. and i get a little bit of a break because they know me , go figuremiller maxstar 150   hobart handler 210 w mig conversion hobart 250 arc force plasma cutter    boston ind cutting torch miller performance auto darkening helmet milwalkee 14in chop saw 10,000 watt generator huge drill press and industrial band saw