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Hi friends !.....(I know...it's been a while since I chimed in).QUESTION: How do you run 7018 up for a root bead ?Let's assume you have 3/16" or 1/4" metal (nice, beveled joint).My experience with 5P+ is to put the bead in by just slowly "gliding" right down the joint, then follow with "whip" for the fill pass, and finally a little side to side for the cap. Of course, this is welding down.I'm trying to master 7018 up now.....so anybody that wants to throw their "two-cents" in will be much appreciated ! THANKS !I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:w/7018 you want to hold the rod tip in the direction of travel(up)...just alittle , hold a very short arc....if traveling to slow you'll get drooping welds...travel to fast and you'll have holes....7018 is one rod that you may want to play with the amps or volts depending on your machine till you get the hang of it.....as for the bead i just weave it in side to side as i travel
Reply:I'm reading beveled joint to mean it is a groove weld on butted material. Things to keep in mind: it's tough to get a clean root with '18. Far from impossible, but tough. It is common in boiler work to goug the root out after the fill and cap, and cap the root side to insure good weld metal.That said, keep the rod pointed down into the bead a bit, keep the keyhole fairly small, and don't hip or weave. You kind of want to imagine laying dimes in the root, so the slag will wash the keyhole, and a little bit of it will run to the root side. (Some people disagree with this, but if the slag doesn't do this, there is no protection on that side, and you will have heavy oxidation) think of putting little tiny ice-cream scoops of weld metal in there. you are building up. I work the rod maybe 20 or 30 degrees over horizontal. Work with guys that have the rod nearly vertical, right in there. Remember to keep the arc short and let the puddle fill completely where the bevel cuts back.A good pratice is use small coupons mounted such that you can weld while standing on the wrong side. You can see the stick over the top and throught the gap, and you can see what is happing on the root side and get a feel for the root fill.
Reply:Enlpck....am I correct in assuming you are telling me to point the rod down ? . . .as you say: "down into the bead a bit".From the books I've read, with vertical up, you point the rod "where you're going, not where you've been".If pointing the rod down is acceptable, I feel it would be easier !I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:Maybe I should clarify myself a little........I've had the good fortune to meet a weldor that's putting in natural gas pipeline here locally. He happened to have a really great attitude towards my "hunger for knowledge". He happily allowed me to watch him weld many pipe joints, and while I would never consider myself a "pipeliner", I learned a great deal from that man ! As the saying goes: "A picture is worth a thousand words" ! Those welds were welded down with 5P+.I read in books that the higher quality piping (in power plants, for instance), are welded vertical up with 7018.I've tried to run 7018 down, but the slag runs down and screws up the arc....so I guess that's why they run it "up".I'm on a mission to learn "How" to do it ! I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:ALSO....boilerman......That's exactly my problem.....When I try to run up with 7018, my welds are droopy & chunky Bead is narrow with some undercut, but stacked high...I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:markopolo: Have run 7018 open root many times, also certified 7018 open root in boilertube and pipe uphand and down. 2 ways I've always ran vert. up open root ,1 with a feather edge and the other with a land on the edge. "3/32" rod with 3/32 land is the easyiest. Always pointed slightly up to straight in with a slight "U" motion. If keyhole starts opening push the puddle more, if it starts closing, pull the puddle more. If you point down to far the flux on the rod gets in the way and lengthens the arc ,sometimes enough to cause "arc blow" which causes porosity and all kinds of problems. As far as your weld shape being high in the center and undercut on the sides tells me that your rod angle is wrong or your amps are to high or a combination of the two. Welding V-down increase your amps about 10-15 more ,start with rod straight in and use a slight inverted "u" motion. revpol
Reply:The stinger end is a little lower than the arc end. I should have said ' lay it slightly into the bead' I try to avoid saying point up and point down, as it seems to be about 50-50 which end people think I'm refering to. And yes, I do work with people that get great (much better than my) welds with the stick nearly vertical.The key thing for me is build and wash through the keyhole so it doesn't get substantial in size.
Reply:marko.....you do have fresh rods and not something thats been laying around ....if 7018 has gotten moisture and not kept dry you'll get vert. ups that look like a goose just $hit on it...also a pic is worth a thousand words ....even if you are ashamed to post itLast edited by boilerman; 05-25-2004 at 03:20 PM.
Reply:I just took a weld test for a local fab shop and one of the welds was with 7018 vertical up on 1/2" plate in the form of a "t". I was using a Lincoln machine that did TIG as well(never caught the model but it had a digital readout). I was running at 106, pointing up by about 10 degrees or less and weaving was less than 1/8" and the weld came out almost flat. Gouging was not an issue. The width of the weld was +-3/8"Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:Thanks everyone. Boilerman: I'm assuming the rods are OK.I don't keep them in a rod oven, but they ARE stored in an airtight container and kept in the house (air conditioned), not out in the shop. Let me play with it a little more, and I'll put a pic. up.I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:OK boilerman....you wanted to see a pic. or two that I'm ashamed of, so here you go.This is 7018, vertical up with 1/8" rod, d.c.+, on 1/8" flat stock: Attached ImagesI'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:...........and here is 7018, 1/8" rod d.c.+ on 3/16" flat stock: Attached ImagesI'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:Is that CRAP...or what I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:Actually that doesnt look too bad. The weld you are trying to make is difficult. A vert on a flat light plate. Put 2 plates in a T joint and try it.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:One good way to improve your verticals is to vary the angle from slightly angled and progressively go vertical, as you see first-hand what changes it makes to your puddle and slag and adapt as you see it.
Reply:Another thing is that you want to relax a bit and slow down. The undercut , as well as the varying bead width, indicates that you arn't waiting for the puddle to fill. The slag can be misleading in this position, so you may need to relearn how to see the puddle. Might need to back off the heat a tad. Try varying it a little both ways, so you can see the effect. But as MAC said, flat plate like this is tough, as there is no place for the filler to go.
Reply:Thanks guys, for the encouragement.....I NEED IT ! I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:Franz.....I now know what you meant when you were talking about "dozing off behind the hood" ! With all this vertical practice, my mind it starting to think in terms of vertical !I actually had to make a flat weld the other day, and I found myself thinking: "God !....this is so easy, I feel I could do it with my eyes closed" ! I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:Sberry...Thanks for the reply......I tried a t-weld with 3/16" stock.7018 1/8" rod, vertical up...........(quit laughing ) Attached ImagesI'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:just need to smooth out your travel speed alittle ....on the "t" weld looks like you could use just a tad more heat but other than that keep it up you'll get in the swing of it .....try weaveing when welding and see what that does for you ....oh and marko i may need you to solve a dispute here at work ....the story goes alittle like this ....the boys was sitting around bull****ting and one said need to get side job with mafia to dispose of bodies....he was talking in the boiler ....well naturally you all ways got one smart *** that wants to make himself seem smart ....well he said you would have to put the head and pelvic bone back thru....well the arguement started and the next thing i heard was ....hey guys i passed a road killed deer on the way in to work...and thats when i got involed and said ok ....i might know someone that will end this .....so ....to get things back to normal ....what are the times and temps. for disposal
Reply:Thanks boilerman.....I may try a little more heat, but I don't want to burn through, so I'm always conservative.Speaking of heat......Florida law says: "at least 1600 degrees f."There's a chart recorder on my furnace that measures temp. and I have to keep the charts for 3 years so the E.P.A. will know that I'm not cutting back to save fuel.I run at about 1800 degrees f. for about 3 hours (depending on the size & weight of the person). Below 1400 degrees f. you may get some smoke coming out of the stack.I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:well thanks there marko ....we more than got that covered.. score is ...smartass 0....the boys 1.....
Reply:Boilerman......just a reminder.......There WILL be ashes......Make sure you dispose of them !I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:coal boiler.....lots of asheshmmm, the crematorium I operate cycles at 1500º.
Reply:Banza......each state is different....as long as I stay above 1600 degrees, I'm OK.My afterburner shuts off at 1800....and kicks back in at about 1770.Last edited by Markopolo; 05-27-2004 at 10:50 PM.I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:Originally posted by Markopolo Banza......each state is different....as long as I stay above 1600 degrees, I'm OK.My afterburner shuts off at 1800....and kicks back in at about 1770.
Reply:Hi cutter ! . . .good to hear from you !Say....I just ordered some new gas regulators....Victor SR450's$131.00 apiece from Cyberweld......(Is that a good price, or did I screw up ?) I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:For teaching yourself I think you are doing fine.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:Boilerman I alway dispose of my bodies in a hog lot. That works quite well also.Ron ShopFloorTalk Millermatic 350P, M-25, M-40 gunsDynasty 300DX, Coolmate 3, Crafter CS-310 TorchTrailblazer 302, 12RC, WC-2430A spoolgunSpectrum 2050Thermal Arc Plasma Welder PS-3000/WC-100B
Reply:yep....heard them hog lots are good places to make things go away ....when i was a kid ...just messing around we caught a chicken and give it the ol' heave hoe into the pen.....and it was gone after a short chase
Reply:Boilerman,I've been doing some work in a scrap yard lately. The owner always says, "You'll see one of everything in here." He wasn't kidding.I saw this contraption come in and went to check it out.It was a big square box with a Baldor motor mounted in the bottom. The motor ran a shaft that had several rows of metal pieces mounted so they could flop around (like a WWII landmine sweeper). The shaft rotated in a container made out of punched metal screen with a closeable lid. At the bottom there was a removable drawer.On the front was an inventory control sticker from "Acme" crematorium supply or some such company.Best I could tell, people don't appreciate having tooth fragments in their urns and this machine was designed to homogenize the contents before placing them in an urn.Marko, you ever seen one of these? If so, how close is my guess?They also got in a few crematorium "drip pans."
Reply:Our cremains processor is 3 loose steel 1" rods that ride in a perforated basket
Reply:David r . . . You're right. What you saw was a "cremated remains processer". It pulverizes the ashes down to a uniform size.....about the consistency of cat litter.I built a processer once out of a kitchen garbage disposal and a shop vac. Hooked up the vac to the drain pipe on the disposal.Turn on the vac & disposal, feed the ashes into the disposal, shut everything off, and collect the fine ash out of the shop vac.There are many different types and designs, but they all do the same thing.The drip pans we're from an "All" (brand name) crematory. They use bottom-fired hearths (burner located at the floor of the chamber). Most modern crematories have overhead burners, located in the roof of the chamber. With a solid hearth, you have no problems with fluid or grease leakage.I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:The only concern with solid hearth is having to redo the refractory periodically, but its like anything else, take care of it and it will last. We doubled the life of our hearth by carefull loading and cleanout. The factory guy who came to repair the rear arch was amazed at the age of our unit and the condition of the floor based on the
Reply:I re-brick about every 5 years. Use cardboard loading rollers, and try not to open the door when it's cherry red in there to avoid shocking the brickwork.I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:Sberry, Boilerman....all my friends ! Thought I'd put up another pic. or two for your entertainment ! Here's tonight's try at 7018 vertical up. I know it's on flat plate Sberry...but I'm gonna' have to learn how to do it sooner or later......Don't laugh too hard, guys.....none of us were "born" with the gift......we all had to work hard at it.....and that's what I'm doing now !........ Attached ImagesI'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:And I even tried a horizontal with 7018....the top bead in this pic.(the bead under it is actually a vertical-up) Attached ImagesI'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:The first weld looks pretty good... Still a bit of undercut, but much more consistant and good fusion, smooth. You might want to take a grinder and groove the metal, rather than running on smooth plate. start with a groove about the depth and twice the width of your stick. This will help you see the undercut happen, and help you see how long to wait for it to fill. It WILL happen, if you are getting fusion--the edge at the plate surface will melt, and you need to let the puddle fill it back in. You may also find that you tend to one side or the other. Don't wory about it. Try for flush to slightly proud.If you want an easy, cheap way to practice root and fill, get some 1/4 or 3/8 square bar. Cut it to lengths of about 8 to 10", and make a pleated plate as follows: put two bars together so that the edges are in contact and the faces form an angle of between 60 and 90 degrees. Tack the ends, leaving a small gap at the edge, or butting tightly, or whatever. Position and weld. Run the root,, and keep running passes until the groove is filled. Fit another bar on so you weld on the othe side, and do it again. Then another, etc. Things you will learn: How to burn in the root; how to fill undercut; how much easier it is to remove slag if you fil the undercut; distortion control (or the bars will bend too far to fit the next- 1/4 is easire because it is easier to bend the next one to match); How to work in the groove.With regards to the horizontal: I find horizontal harder then vert, and harder than overhead, for that matter. I like vertical, actually. (My worst position is iverhear fillet. I don't know why)
Reply:Thanks enlpck ! I really appreciate the reply !Question: With regards to undercut, I assume that you pause a little extra on each side as you weave. In my (self-taught) experience....this will do two things: 1st....it will cause the puddle to sag, droop & finally drop out. 2nd....(with thin stock), I'll drill a hole right through it !I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:.....ALSO, Thanks for the idea about the square bars ! I never thought of that, but to be honest, I got a $hitload of pipe cut-offs in the shop that I got from the guy that was showing me pipewelding. By the time I weld all these pieces together, I'll be a "Class A" bead, fill & cap weldor. I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:Guys it ain't a whole lot different from learnin to play the fiddle, practice till it becomes almost automatic.Them pulversizers sound a lot like the damn fool bottle smashers the recycle place here had. We were constantly replacing the skirts and blades, along with motors. I hated to see those things cause the air in the area was full of powdered glass, and even with a resperator you inhaled some of that crap.I finally got em to cough up some $$ and built them one that didn't destroy itself.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:Thanks Franz.....that's exactly what I'm tryin' to do !I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:Overhead fillet is probably my fav position,, other than girl on top.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:For real purdy its tough to beat downhand with the mig... hawww.urkafarms.com
Reply:Marko, I would like to give you a suggestion. If your going to go in to v-groov with 7018 I would like to see you fallow some strict code procedures. I dont know if you will be looking to get certified in the future but fallowing the code standards now will prepare you for the future the right way. The reason I would suggest you fallow code is consistency. If you randomly just start putting bevels on your pipe with on concern for the correct bevel angle every piece of pipe you weld up will be different, ( you may nail one piece of pipe and then do the next the same way but be under filled because your pipe bevel is wider than the last). This lack of consistency can cause alot of frustration. Following code standards is not hard to do. Im going to guss that the scrap pipe you have is schedule 80, for that thickens make your bevels 33 degrees,( + or - )2 degrees. It is some work but having all your pipe the same is a big advantage. I guss ill throw my two cents in about technique, why stop now right.For plate vert. up I like to use little e'sa small cursive e going up. What you see as you make the e is as you go up and back down you will see the arc cut away at the base metal. When you come back to the bottom of the e you will pause a moment this will fill under your arc nicely. After your slight pause continue up with the next( little)!! e. Every time you make a e you cut in front of you and fill behind. I know it difficult to explain this stuff on the forum but I dont mind giving it a shot if it can help you at all. Ok let me finish this, bevel your plate at 22degrees. Run beads up one at a time keeping them going evenly on each side, I like to have about 1/16" left to cap that gives you a little to fill on the cap and your cap height wont be too high, that goes for plate and pipe. Hope this will help if you can use just a little part of this info Ill be glad.no you cant fix it with a hot pass.BORN TO LOSE, LIVE TO WIN.
Reply:Thanks Wolfgang ! . . . . .I really appreciate the nice response you took the time to give me.The pipe I have (which is the pipe they're putting in here locally) is 6 3/16" i.d. (about 6 5/8" o.d.) looks like 1/4" wall. It's for low pressure natural gas. They bevel it with an oxy-acetylene device that fit's over the end of the pipe.....real slick !Anyway.....they taught me how to put the bead in (5P+) .....just drag it right in.....then the fill (whip).....and finally the cap (side to side weave). I've been told that pipe weldors are a very special breed, and if I ever get to that point, I'll be a very happy man !But, for now, I'm just playing with it in my home shop.....and (from time to time) if I get lucky, and run a beautiful weld, It makes me grin !But pipewelding isn't everything ! I want to get to the point (as Franz say's: "learning how to play the fiddle").........I want to be able to just look at a joint and say to myself:....."OK, this is how that needs to be done".....and then do it without a problem !I'M LEARNING ! ! ! I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:been off doing things and getting into trouble here so i haven't checkin in to see whats going on ....but marko i see an improvement in your beads so just keep on doing it ...your coming along just fine |
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发表于 2021-9-1 00:24:50