A Frame Design

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**Warning Newbie here**  I need to make an A Frame to hang a porch style swing from.  I could build one out of wood, but that wouldn't give me an excuse to use my new MIG welder   I can easily design a frame from angle iron and tube stock, but I wonder if there is a better design that is newbie friendly. Anyone ever build an A Frame like this? Please post pics, and provide design information as I could use all the help I can get.Qualified & experienced at welding scrap metal
Reply:Hey Little Jeep,Sorry I don't have any pics nor have I built one.  However, I think it would be really easy.  I would build it using the A-frame you mentioned.  Make the sides just like an A (with the horizontal piece).  Connect the two sides with a top piece resting on top of the A.  I would make a short horizontal piece on the top of the A rather than a point.  I would also drop a short vertical piece from the top of the A and connect it to a horizontal piece about 12-18 inches down from the top.  Then run a piece 45 degrees from the dropped horizontal to the top piece to keep the swing from racking.  I would make everything out of 2X2 1/4 tubing except the top piece.  Maybe go with 4 inch i-beam or so depending on width of the swing.  Obviously, the wider you go, the thicker the material you need.  You want something that won't deflect much.I am assuming you are talking about a 2 person swing needed to support 400-500 lbs.NOTE:  I am not a structural engineer and don't claim to be.  I believe this would be overkill, but you don't want 500 lbs coming down on your legs while your swinging.Other may have differing opinions, but I think this would be easy to build and structural sound (with good welds of course).Thanks,JasonMillermatic 210 w/ SpoolgunMiller 375 ExtremeMiller Trailblazer 250GMiller AEAD 200-LEVictor Journeyman O/A
Reply:Go look at ordinary swing sets and go from there. That'll put you using ordinary pipe with some angle as gussets to ease up on the difficulty factor.
Reply:Originally Posted by little Jeep  I can easily design a frame from angle iron and tube stock, but I wonder if there is a better design that is newbie friendly.
Reply:Originally Posted by 69 chevyWhy don't you show us your design.  Then, we'll pick it apart.
Reply:Hey little jeep,Thanks for the words.My design may not be the prettiest, but I'm sure it will hold and last a lifetime.  I wasn't assuming your or anyone else's weight when I said 400-500 lbs.  You just never know when 2 big drunk guys want to swing after a day of golf and they get a little too frisky with the swing.  I have repaired swings for people hanging in their covered porch.  All that was holding the swing was two j hooks in 3/4" wood (no studs).  They couldn't figure out why it fell.I like to overbuild for safety.  Fallen swings leave nasty bruises and could seriously harm small children/pets.I do think you could go with lighter material, but I would hate to hear about an accident down the road besides the wasted time and material.Just an opinion.Thanks,JasonMillermatic 210 w/ SpoolgunMiller 375 ExtremeMiller Trailblazer 250GMiller AEAD 200-LEVictor Journeyman O/A
Reply:West Baden: I like your design better than mine (or what I had).  The 2x2 tube stock would look a lot better than angle iron. Would 2x4 tube stock work for a top rail, or maybe a 3 inch I beam instead of the 4 inch? I was looking to cut a little weight.  Do you have a guess about what raw metal will cost thru Metal Super Store ?Qualified & experienced at welding scrap metal
Reply:2X4 would probably work.  I would go with at least 1/4".As far as Metal Super store, is that an internet store?  I am not familiar with it.  If it is, I would use that as a last resort.  You should have plenty of steel supply places in Louisville.  As far as price goes, it all depends on where you go and how often you use them.  If I were you, I would find a good supplier within reasonable distance and use them exclusively.  Once they see your face quite often, your price should get better.  The bigger cities might be different, but that is how it is here.  I have two places I go, but only to get certain items that one can't get.You should be able to bargain a little with the supplier, but if you go once a year, your bargaining power isn't much.My price around here for 2X2X1/4 tube is about $80 a stick (24 feet) last time I bought some.  2x4x1/4 tube is about double that.Price for I-beam, I have no idea.  I always buy that from the scrapyard.  Always plenty of i-beam there and the price is right.Thanks,JasonMillermatic 210 w/ SpoolgunMiller 375 ExtremeMiller Trailblazer 250GMiller AEAD 200-LEVictor Journeyman O/A
Reply:I purchase so much metal, I don't even know the correct name of the place I buy from. Here is where I am talking about http://www.metalsupermarkets.com/, there is a Louisville location that is within 8 miles of my house. I'm a once a year buyer so far.I think two 24 foot runs would provide all the tubing I would need. I wonder if a local bone yard would have an I beam I could use as I really don't want to buy 24 foot beam when I only need 7 foot?Last edited by little Jeep; 12-01-2007 at 04:33 PM.Qualified & experienced at welding scrap metal
Reply:I think you could easily find 7 feet of i-beam at any scrap yard.  It will most likely be rusty and scaly, but for a few cents on the pound, a little elbow grease is a pretty good trade-off.  You may not find exactly 7 feet, but they will cut it for a small fee.You might check the scrap yard for the tubing as well, you might get lucky.  Around here, some of the scrap yards also are into new steel sales.  You might check the yards for new as well.  Also check around at some of the local fab shops.  They may go through enough steel, their prices may be better than the steel places.My brother-in-law works at a steel supplier and scrap yard in Columbus, IN.  I do get some of my steel through him, just to throw him a bone (and he throws me a bone and gets me some drops sometimes).  It is too far of a drive to get all my steel there.  I get 90% of my steel through a local fab shop and the price is nearly as good as my brother-in-law can get me with the good discount.I would call or drive around to a few places first.  It doesn't cost much to do so, and you may find a really good place (especially a scrap yard) to pick up some cheap steel.Thanks,JasonMillermatic 210 w/ SpoolgunMiller 375 ExtremeMiller Trailblazer 250GMiller AEAD 200-LEVictor Journeyman O/A
Reply:Thanks Jason, I appreciate all the help and information that you have provided.   What program did you use to design and/or draw the A Frame layout? Is it an expensive program?Again, thanks for all of your help.Qualified & experienced at welding scrap metal
Reply:Hey big swingers!  How about a nice light, but strong, pallet rack beam for the top?From a MH dealer, 10 bucks will buy one.Every business with racks has a few extra strays; look in the corner, by the dock!
Reply:Originally Posted by little JeepWest Baden: I like your design better than mine (or what I had).  The 2x2 tube stock would look a lot better than angle iron. Would 2x4 tube stock work for a top rail, or maybe a 3 inch I beam instead of the 4 inch? I was looking to cut a little weight.  Do you have a guess about what raw metal will cost thru Metal Super Store ?
Reply:Maybe a galvanized fence post? You can buy one tomorrow at the home center.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepHey big swingers!  How about a nice light, but strong, pallet rack beam for the top?From a MH dealer, 10 bucks will buy one.Every business with racks has a few extra strays; look in the corner, by the dock!
Reply:Originally Posted by little Jeep... what is a pallet rack beam? Do you have a pic of one?...
Reply:I have made several porch swings with portable frames . I used 1"schedule 40 pipe. I don't remember the exact dimensions.Take 3 pieces of 6 foot pipe and weld them in a U shape then weld a 1 3/4" long piece of 1 1/4" pipe across the ends of the uprights. Make a second U shape frame that fits inside the first frame. A piece of 1" pipe 6' 3" slides thru the 1 1/4 "sleeves to form a hinge. Stand the frames up with a 4' spread at the base and bolt 1" angle midway up to hold the 2 frames in place.To keep things simple I just flattened the ends of the upright for welding instead of notching.
Reply:Hey little Jeep,I just used microsoft paint to draw that up.  Pretty simple to do but it is not to scale.  I do have a 3-D cad program at home on my Mac , but sometimes it is more trouble than it's worth.  The program is ViaCad.  I haven't done enough with it yet to be able to be proficient.Thanks,JasonMillermatic 210 w/ SpoolgunMiller 375 ExtremeMiller Trailblazer 250GMiller AEAD 200-LEVictor Journeyman O/A
Reply:I-beam for the top rail is over kill .Look at a axle for a 2000 lb. capacity trailer they are usually 1 1/2" thin wall tube. The weight is being supported near the ends not the middle. Using an I-beam across the top will make it top heavy, difficult to move, and if it would tip over could fatally injure a child or even an adult.
Reply:Originally Posted by triptesterI-beam for the top rail is over kill .Look at a axle for a 2000 lb. capacity trailer they are usually 1 1/2" thin wall tube. The weight is being supported near the ends not the middle. Using an I-beam across the top will make it top heavy, difficult to move, and if it would tip over could fatally injure a child or even an adult.
Reply:Attached is a pic of one of the swings I built about ten years ago. Light weight , stable ,and eazy to move. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by triptesterAttached is a pic of one of the swings I built about ten years ago. Light weight , stable ,and eazy to move.
Reply:I have a small press with a 8 ton hydraulic jack I use to flatten the ends, but I have also used a hammer to pound the ends nearly flat. I don't flatten them completely I get them down to about 5/8".The top rail is kept in place by 1/4" bolts on the outside of the frame. The frame folds flat for storage or transport by removing the side braces. The bottoms of the frames do not dig into the lawn or deck and slide easy enough to allow moving the swing by one person.
Reply:Originally Posted by triptesterAttached is a pic of one of the swings I built about ten years ago. Light weight , stable ,and eazy to move.
Reply:Originally Posted by little JeepNow I understand (as light in my head comes on   ).... that is a simple design. You are using round stock, but how did you make the joints (I have limited tools) esp. the joint at the top rail and bottom of legs.  Like I said, I am a total newbie so I get confused & lost easily.I got a price quote on the 1x1x.25 tubing, and a 6 foot 2x4x 3/16 for use as top rail....... $260.00   Nothing cheap about this. I am building it for a family member who said okay to this price so I'll be building it.Qualified & experienced at welding scrap metal
Reply:Originally Posted by little JeepI got a price quote on the 1x1x.25 tubing, and a 6 foot 2x4x 3/16 for use as top rail....... $260.00   Nothing cheap about this. I am building it for a family member who said okay to this price so I'll be building it.
Reply:Originally Posted by aczellerwith a frame like that, i;d be willing to build it out of 1x1x16 ga square tube... plenty strong and stiff... only about 9 or 10 bucks per 20' length if you can get it at cost... even if you can't it'll be a ton cheaper than using 1/4" wall... as far as the top, try looking into 2x2x7 ga square tube... we use it all the time at work and it's a lot stronger and heavier than we ever thought... not sure how much for it tho... we get all that kind of stuff in 304/304L SS, so it's more than likely more expensive than that 2x4, if you get it in SS... mild would be jsut fine tho... worst case scenario, you throw a few extra supports in there out of the extra 1x1x16 ga tube.Long story short, there are cheaper ways to do it. you may just have to add a couple extra supports to help stiffen it... a perfec place for some scrolling or more decorative gussets.Later,Andy
Reply:I picked my metal up today. I ended up getting 40 foot (I want to build a table also) of 1" x 1" x 1/8" tube stock, 8 foot of 2"x4", 8' of 2 inch x 1/8" flat stock..... all for $129.00 It looks like it will be Wednesday at least before I can start on this project.Qualified & experienced at welding scrap metal
Reply:How about 2 angle bedrails welded into a square for the top rail? Cheap at the local junk store or yard sales next spring.Also use them for the legs and braces.
Reply:Originally Posted by KnotboredHow about 2 angle bedrails welded into a square for the top rail? Cheap at the local junk store or yard sales next spring.Also use them for the legs and braces.
Reply:Here is my work in progress. The top rail will be a 2"x2"x1/8" tube with plates welded over end openings in tube. I will not show my welds... I have seen the work done by people on this site. Keep in mind this is the first project that I have tried to build.Qualified & experienced at welding scrap metal
Reply:Looking good so far. How far apart are the legs front to rear? I have found a spread of 2/3 the height is needed when kids decide to use it.
Reply:How are you attaching the top rail to the sides? I would do a reciever hitch set up to make it easy to take apart and move.
Reply:Originally Posted by triptesterLooking good so far. How far apart are the legs front to rear? I have found a spread of 2/3 the height is needed when kids decide to use it.
Reply:Originally Posted by MrRodeoCCHow are you attaching the top rail to the sides? I would do a reciever hitch set up to make it easy to take apart and move.
Reply:very nice! are you going to paint it?
Reply:Originally Posted by cajun weldervery nice! are you going to paint it?
Reply:Here is a photo as the A frame stands now. The red is primer, and the far end of top rail and parts has been primered, then painted flat black. The end closest to the camera is untouched.Qualified & experienced at welding scrap metal
Reply:awesome work!!   MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR
Reply:Well, I hope that I didn't mess up. The bottom of the top rail is right at 6 foot. The leg span is 36 inches. Basically, 50% versus the recommended 75% span that was recommended. I wish I had the swing here to test the current setup out more. (me concerned).Qualified & experienced at welding scrap metal
Reply:If the swing feels like it may tip  a simple fix could be accomplished by replacing the pads on the legs with a 4 foot runner across the bottom. If the swing is placed on ground this will also prevent it from sinking.
Reply:Originally Posted by triptesterIf the swing feels like it may tip  a simple fix could be accomplished by replacing the pads on the legs with a 4 foot runner across the bottom. If the swing is placed on ground this will also prevent it from sinking.