Tig cast Iron

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This is a cover to a heat exchanger of some kind.  I think its an oil cooler.  I have worked on this before.  I had to add 2 flanges.  It came to me all jigged.  Nice eh?Here are the flangesOther sideBottomReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:First I grooved all the way around with the 41/2" grinder and Die grinder. I clamped, preheated then tacked the pieces in place.  Then I took the clamps off and heated the whole piece to almost 500 with a weed burner torch.  It took a while.  I welded it with some kind of cast tig rod the LWS gave me. I do not know the name and he did not charge me for it, so no invoice to look at.  3/32 filler, red 3/32 electrode.  I left the TA-185 on max and used what ever it took to get a puddle.  I re heated it a few times while I welded it.Here is some vertical upOther sidebottomBottom other sideThe whole job took an hour and a half.  I left it on the steel sawhorses.  Too big to put into a bucket with speedi dry.  I don't think it will crack.   Thanks for lookingDavidLast edited by David R; 01-10-2008 at 08:15 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Why not braze it? It would hold better in my opinion. I have brazed many cast iron boat exhaust manifolds and other broken machine parts with no failures.Maby the rod is silicon-bronze?No pein on the weld bead?
Reply:Interesting..He did'nt know what it was..Are you positive it was not stainless..say 309?Has that purplish color too it..What color are the sparks on a piece of filler????...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterInteresting..He did'nt know what it was..Are you positive it was not stainless..say 309?Has that purplish color too it..What color are the sparks on a piece of filler????...zap!
Reply:Whatever it was let us know.. We all suffer CRS every day.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderman1Why not braze it? It would hold better in my opinion. I have brazed many cast iron boat exhaust manifolds and other broken machine parts with no failures.Maby the rod is silicon-bronze?No pein on the weld bead?
Reply:Is peening reserved for cast, and what is the proper way to do it?Miller Syncrowave 200Hobart Handler 140Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38E-Z Tube BenderPlasma Cam DHC2
Reply:When I cold weld an engine block, I use nickel 99 and weld one inch, then chip the slag and keep hitting the weld with the point to stress relieve.  If you catch it hot you can dimple it pretty good.  This should help the weld stretch because the cast iron will not budge.  If it does, it makes a distinctive "crack".DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Cool Post Dave.Make sure to fill us in on how it all works out and what rod was used.I am getting prices on a Lincoln PT225 and the Miller Syncrowave 200 today. Hoping a might find some money some where soon.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:looks like silicon bronze or copper NickelChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:It appears the hole weren't the only thing blind DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:First, I have the tag off the rod.  It sez. "Everdure 3/32 Cast"  This was hand written.  NEXT, This morning I tested it and it leaked in 3 spots on one end and one on the other.  I cleaned it up and ran a cover pass.  Still leaked in the same spots.  I then brazed it.  Still leaked in the same spots.  I had a ton of trouble brazing it.  SO I used the die grinder and removed all the crappy braze and some of the second pass.  I brazed it again.  Not much better, still leaked.  I was down to one flux coated brazing rod so I called NAPA for more.  They deliver to my shop regularly.  I needed the rod and sure didn't have time to go get some.  As soon as I used the new rod, I knew my old stuff was junk.  It had been around a long time (10 + years?).  The new brazing rod flowed like it should.  Once I had that, I sealed up the holes.  This was at 4:00 while the customer was standing there.  This part HAD to ship to texas today because a locomotive was waiting for it.  I loaded the part on his truck with my welding gloves because it was still hot.  I threw out all the old brazing rod I had.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Sounds like whoever was making the decisions at the RR should be fired????   I mean, obviously the part ended up somewhere where the guy had no idea what he was doing, and who knows what will happen once the part goes thru a couple heating/cooling cycles?????Last edited by Collier; 01-11-2008 at 08:46 PM.
Reply:And BTW,,,,,  "everdur" is commonly used by sheet-metal workers to weld galvanized sheets and ductwork together .....  no applications whatsoever as far as I know in cast iron .....
Reply:One would suspect the LWS is as clueless as the guy who actually did the work???????
Reply:Hopefully they will find a guy in Tx. that can repair the cracks in it....as well as fix the bolt holes......hope it wasn't Ni55......
Reply:Oh, I believe there's plenty of guys in Texas that are competent ....  wonder why they even sent it to NY in the first place????
Reply:Nice piece David, heck if was easy everyone would be doing this and we would all be on wallmarts forum talking clothing or something. I have always thought about tig on cast. I am a newbie to tig so this is over my head and you have shed some light on the subject. I think it appears to be very doable. We all know what a pain cast can be... Thanks for the balls to show your job and keep posting as we are all watching.John
Reply:Originally Posted by David RThis is a cover to a heat exchanger of some kind.  I think its an oil cooler.  I have worked on this before.  I had to add 2 flanges.  It came to me all jigged.  Nice eh?
Reply:Thanks for documenting your struggles with that job David, it would have been easy to make up some story about how wonderful it went, and how everything always goes perfect for you, etc. etc. etc. Shieldarc, that wasn't a very respectful reply. Please be more respectful. I work hard all day and I enjoy logging on and looking at other people work when I get home. It ruins my enjoyment when people act like high school kids, or post replies that are not meant to be helpful or informative.If you had said something like, "David, I knew that would never work, because I have tried welding like that before and it is never successful. I have a method I use when I weld cast to flanges, and it works really well. I start by .... then I .... and so on." then we could all learn from each other instead of just slagging each other.Respectfully,Ryan McEachern
Reply:I belive Everdure is a brand name. It is simmilar to silicon bronze if not the same.I have used actual brass rod to some degree. Originally Posted by David RFirst, I have the tag off the rod.  It sez. "Everdure 3/32 Cast"  This was hand written.  NEXT, This morning I tested it and it leaked in 3 spots on one end and one on the other.  I cleaned it up and ran a cover pass.  Still leaked in the same spots.  I then brazed it.  Still leaked in the same spots.  I had a ton of trouble brazing it.  SO I used the die grinder and removed all the crappy braze and some of the second pass.  I brazed it again.  Not much better, still leaked.  I was down to one flux coated brazing rod so I called NAPA for more.  They deliver to my shop regularly.  I needed the rod and sure didn't have time to go get some.  As soon as I used the new rod, I knew my old stuff was junk.  It had been around a long time (10 + years?).  The new brazing rod flowed like it should.  Once I had that, I sealed up the holes.  This was at 4:00 while the customer was standing there.  This part HAD to ship to texas today because a locomotive was waiting for it.  I loaded the part on his truck with my welding gloves because it was still hot.  I threw out all the old brazing rod I had.  David
Reply:Originally Posted by ShieldArcIt was nice until you got it. I dont understand why you tried to weld it that way???????????? WTF?????? You have no clue how to properly weld cast..
Reply:the company i worked for had a metalolagist i ask him for help totig weld and old tractor (cast) part he gave me a filler rodeach rod has its own label    NI ROD 44  it works great
Reply:For my payment for this job (should have been 1.5 hours) I am going to ask for some scrap  cast Iron.  I need to work with it more.  Gonna try pulsed spray nickel.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.Originally Posted by David RFor my payment for this job (should have been 1.5 hours) I am going to ask for some scrap  cast Iron.  I need to work with it more.  Gonna try pulsed spray nickel.  David
Reply:hey,Like everybody else has already written thanks for sharing the experience...even though it probably didnt exactly turn out as planned.  My only concern with the whole project is the "jig" they utilized to line up the flange holes and keep the unit squared.  From a fabrication stand point the little jig they provided you with was poorly made, it should have been  a flat plate machined into a "T"  so that both square sides of the flanges would be unable to move.  This would have ensured that the flanges were on square and that the holes were properly straddled.  But like I mentioned thats not your fault.have a good one,  -Paul
Reply:try  ni 44 its like welding mild steel if u us p.s.n. i think u will need a tri mix gas like welding s.s.
Reply:Why do you want to MIG every thing.......and use pulsed spray transfer at that.........what parameters would it take to get Ni to a spray transfer....and what gas would you be using.....I personally would have used my little Maxstar a $7 pack of Ni99 a little preheat with my torch, penned it and covered it in kitty litter over night and been done with it....what the hell do I know I'm just a hobbyist that does it for the enjoyment......and you get payed for it  .....
Reply:Originally Posted by Shade Tree WelderAre you going to Pulsed spray?  Pulsed is GMAW process (GMAW-P), or do you mean pulsed GTAW?
Reply:Originally Posted by David RPulsed spray MIG.  I have a spool gun so I could buy a one or two pound spool.  The machine has a setting for it, but I have no clue. I only had the part up to 500* F, Maybe it should have been hotter.  My dad had a forge, boy I miss it.  84zmike.  Looking at the inside corners I figured no way could I stick weld that and have NO air leaks.    Vertical up with Ni rod for me doesn't work.   Once I get some scrap, I will try all processes including brazing with NEW rod.I mig things because a lot of what I do is piece work.  $$David
Reply:Ron,I was going to use this...Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Or this.It works awesome on steel, so  I gotta try it.I talked to the customer today.  He is going to give me some cast to practice on.  David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by ShieldArcIt was nice until you got it. I dont understand why you tried to weld it that way???????????? WTF?????? You have no clue how to properly weld cast..
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI talked to the customer today.  He is going to give me some cast to practice on.  David
Reply:Is it just me, or is Chamferchode and ShieldArse a couple of morons? How about you ladies learn some manners.Miller Syncrowave 200Hobart Handler 140Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38E-Z Tube BenderPlasma Cam DHC2
Reply:Originally Posted by QuciferIs it just me, or is Chamferchode and ShieldArse a couple of morons? How about you ladies learn some manners.
Reply:Chamferchode, i am not questioning your skills on CI, as a matter of fact you seem to know your stuff when it comes to the subject. My issue is your lack of respsect. It seems to be an ongoing issue with you for some reason, and you really need to grow up.Miller Syncrowave 200Hobart Handler 140Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38E-Z Tube BenderPlasma Cam DHC2
Reply:I thought that the flanges look crooked when I saw the first post as well.  But, I'd say he's pretty well covered by his statement in the first post "It came to me all jigged. Nice eh?"  If it came to him jigged into place then it's not the "weldor's" fault...
Reply:First of all Qucifer, it wasn't disrespectful, the fact remains if the customer can't use the piece because the bolt holes don't line up, FOR WHATEVER REASON, it's going to have to be redone or scrapped, i.e. it just may come back to David.Secondly, if you want namby-pamby hugs and kisses responses, the "oh you f'd that up, but it's alright we still love you" posts, the "ye are King o' the Craft, I bow to your excellence" following, seek it elsewhere or put me on ignore. I know of what I speak, and I post how I speak, no BS, no holds barred.
Reply:Originally Posted by TubularFabI thought that the flanges look crooked when I saw the first post as well.  But, I'd say he's pretty well covered by his statement in the first post "It came to me all jigged. Nice eh?"  If it came to him jigged into place then it's not the "weldor's" fault...
Reply:Chamfertaint, it is apparent that this item did not come out as intended, and it will be up to the customer to handle with the weldor. My attack is not on your knowledge, but your smart as remarks. No-one wants to hear the shop know-it-all rant about how wrong everyone elses work is. Im sure everyone here welcomes respectful guidance, but the tone that accompanies your "constructive" critisism renders you point useless. If you really post how you speak, I would be surprised if anyone who deals with you on a regular basis gives a sh*t about what you say.Miller Syncrowave 200Hobart Handler 140Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38E-Z Tube BenderPlasma Cam DHC2
Reply:Q, you must be one of those PC mid-twenties, light-weights that can't handle being criticized. Always in 'time-out' never spanked, always talked to like you were a little adult not a child, well guess what, if you are an adult, you are acting like a spoiled kid.
Reply:Look CT, I was done making my point a long time ago. You can make any assumptions you like about my character or my upbringing, as it really doesnt matter. Its real easy for characters like yourself to run thier mouths over the net with no regard, because its a one in a billion chance someone is actually going to come looking for you. If you feel the need to portray yourself as a bad *** via the web because you get no respect in the real world, by all means build yourself up, just dont do it here.Miller Syncrowave 200Hobart Handler 140Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38E-Z Tube BenderPlasma Cam DHC2
Reply:Originally Posted by ChamferchodeSee above, no matter who's fault, it's not going to fit, it's scrap as it is, whether David get another crack at it is not my decision. If I repair a casting and it no longer fits, the blame is on me.
Reply:Well it's good to see just about everyone here has a set of blue boys. Oh, and vrmarkii, are you really stupid or do you just play an imbecile on the internet?
Reply:Originally Posted by ChamferTrodeFirst of all Qucifer, it wasn't disrespectful, the fact remains if the customer can't use the piece because the bolt holes don't line up, FOR WHATEVER REASON, it's going to have to be redone or scrapped, i.e. it just may come back to David.Secondly, if you want namby-pamby hugs and kisses responses, the "oh you f'd that up, but it's alright we still love you" posts, the "ye are King o' the Craft, I bow to your excellence" following, seek it elsewhere or put me on ignore. I know of what I speak, and I post how I speak, no BS, no holds barred.
Reply:I for one wish more people posted the projects that DONT turn out.Especially when they document process and all the parameters they used on the unsuccessful attempts.We all can post the ones that look great but there is a far greater learning from mistakes.Personally I would rather learn from someone else's mistakes than my own.....It is also interesting when people try things contra to popular opinion and it works.But not this time unfortunately eh David! David obviously is confident enough in his ability as a welder (and mature enough) to post his "Stuff Ups" so a few seemingly harsh comments or at least comments unfettered by political correctness is not going to make him loose any sleep.As long as we all remember to be respectful and word things in a way that they cannot be misconstrued as being a Smart Ars* with the benefit of hindsight.The end result was always going to work as David had his QA in place ie: pressure testing. You cant make a Squillion on every job you do and sometimes ideas just don't work.Without experimentation there is NO progress.BrettA good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:Stupid? I'm not the one drawing lines and counting pixels on ms paint.
Reply:HOLY COW!  I laughed my *** off.  I have always said this is my morning and evening newspaper.  This is now the dear abby sectioin.  Or even the comics.I do the jobs and put the pictures up.   Whoever drew the lines, thank you. Good bad, UGLY, I post what I do.  If there is a better way, then we all learn.  Its always up for discussion.  Respect is nice........We don't need no stinkin personal attacks!  I didn't even read all of the posts.  I sure did laugh though. I do not claim to be an expert.  I just take pictures of my work.  Some comes out nice........  DavidEdit.  Today I bought 2 lbs NEW flux coated brazing rod and 2 lbs 309 1/16" tig wire.Last edited by David R; 01-16-2008 at 09:05 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.