Aluminum Boat Building

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I was curious what all is involved in building small boats with the intention on selling them. I'm not going to run out today and start duct taping one together to sell to some unfortunate soul, just curious what the legalities are, requirements, yalls experiences and opinions of the subject are. I think I mentioned on here before that one of the things I want to get out of taking the welding course I'm starting in January is that I want to build my version of "The Ultimate Duck Boat". If all goes well building a few of the test models, then I'd consider building custom duck boats/jon boats on the side of my regular job.  There are plenty of folks out there doing the same thing and I'm taking an *** backwards approach to getting a duck boat if you want to look at it that way, but everyone that I personally know and many that I know of who have had these boats built have had some sort of issue during the process. Typically it's not an issue with the boat itself, but with the customer service of the person building the boat or their business practices. A guy I know has 5000 of his dollars in the hands of a boat builder, well known and highly respected boat builder, who was supposed to have his boat completed first week in october. Missing the deadline isn't so much the issue, but the builder will not answer the phone and will not return a call or email. This builders faithful followers just put it off by saying, "that's so&so, but you'll have one hell of a boat when their finished!". SCREW THAT! I just don't find that to be acceptable even though it seems to be pretty common in the industry. My thoughts are that IF I can build a boat worth selling that is as good or better than what the other custom builders are making, I could run a successful small business on the side and possibly go full time with it eventually. Customer service is a pretty big deal to me and I think that a boat builder in this segment would do well due to good customer service.
Reply:lots 0 work bryan you might want to get in touch with a couple of the members on here they build boatsone is   WHughes   he builds air boats, and   Kevin Morin   he builds boats in Alaska check out kevins  threads  some AWWWSOME  work he doesidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:I won't even comment about the "entire thread", but I'd suggest finishing that welding course before you pursue this much further.PS:  In the interim, don't give up your day job.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:You should check the coast guard requirements for vessels. A small boat should be an easy project.To correct Prop Doctor, I worked for Larry Whitten at Northwest Jet Boats. Here is one. That hard top is a bolt on. Extremely hard to do and make it all fit nice on the top of those windows and door. Attached ImagesUA Local 598
Reply:Originally Posted by prop-doctorlots 0 work bryan you might want to get in touch with a couple of the members on here they build boatsone is   WHughes   he builds air boats, and   Kevin Morin   he builds boats in Alaska check out kevins  threads  some AWWWSOME  work he does
Reply:sorry hughes, thanks for the correction. at 54  the mind is going loli knew you did some kind of boat work. Bryan good luck in school, never give up on the dreams . you might look for an old duck boat/20 ft jon boat,then customize to your specs would be alot cheaper as far as the price of alum sheet since most are riveted (sp?with the exception of the corners and transomidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Originally Posted by prop-doctorsorry hughes, thanks for the correction. at 54  the mind is going loli knew you did some kind of boat work. Bryan good luck in school, never give up on the dreams . you might look for an old duck boat/20 ft jon boat,then customize to your specs would be alot cheaper as far as the price of alum sheet since most are riveted (sp?with the exception of the corners and transom
Reply:Most boats Ive seen are 3/16 bottom and transom with 1/8 sides. Have fun.UA Local 598
Reply:Originally Posted by Bryan27I believe it was on here or a boat forum I watch that kevin showed some of his work, it is simply fantastic.
Reply:Originally Posted by WHughesMost boats Ive seen are 3/16 bottom and transom with 1/8 sides. Have fun.
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireI think this is the thread your looking for:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=41450This should give you a good idea of what's involved
Reply:thanks for the kind words gentlemen,Bryan27, I'm pretty sure you can find a Boating Safety Office of the DOT/CG in your area and they'll have info.  I think there used to be a pamphlet by the CG called "Info for Back Yard Boat Builders" that's what they call us, backyard boat builders.  I think small capacity, one-off or short run builders would fall into this description used by the CG.That booklet should help you with the HIN, level flotation ideas, horse power and capacity ratings- or lead to lists of regulations that would help you learn those items.There is not too much to complying with CG reg.s for inshore small boats that I've seen, maybe if you're adding fuel tanks you'd have to prototype one and maybe pressure test it or send it to a shake table?I agree with the others that thicker is easier to build since the bead is less critical and the sheet(s) stays cleaner/smoother/flatter/more fair; even with the added heat contraction.The mfg's with pressed and stretch formed parts that can afford riveting jigs all use thin alloy because they're manufacturing not building.  A one-off builder is selling his higher end build to a small part of the overall market in most cases and the thicker material will make a boat easier to build, especially in the first few boats.If the boats get used to run over 'rough' water then the thicker materials are again a good solution.  I'm not sure which alloys are available in your area but if 5086 or 5083 are not readily available it is worth the time and effort to find some way to ship this material to your shop.  The increased resistance to seasonal 'bump and grind' between '86/83 and 5052 is more than worth the cost to get 'the good stuff'.When you get closer to your build let me know if there are specific questions that you think I may be able to answer and I'd be happy to give my few cents advice.Cheers,Kevin Morin
Reply:Thank you for the help Kevin. I just used the terms "boating safety office" as a search and came up with the coast guard site and found a "Boatbuilder's Handbook". I'm going to try to get my hands on a hard copy of it since it's kinda broken up on the site, but I imagine it will have all the information I'd need. Speaking of the different alloys and thicknesses I like what I've read on the 5086 the most and would use either 1/8 or 3/16" material. Most of what is being built for the mud motor boats is 1/8 with 3/16 as an additional option. The concern with that type of boat isn't as much about rough water as it is about rough terrain and flat out abuse, they don't get used much for crossing open water but they get run over logs, stumps and vegetation regularly.I agree that buying the good stuff will be worth it. Locally I haven't been able to find much aluminum in larger sheets, the biggest I've found were 5x10 and pretty expensive. I made a call down to New Orleans and found much larger sheet sizes were readily available, which N.O. is only 6 hours from the house and I'm down there a few times a year anyway so it wouldn't be anything to get my aluminum there.This is going to be a project down the road from now, I need to learn to weld first! But I'm sure you'll be hearing from me and I appreciate the offer for advice.
Reply:Here are some aluminum builders:  Kvichak marine, Munson boats, Bayweld (homer, Ak), Glacier Craft (Anchorage, Ak), Allweld jon boats. --this is what you want.As to the coastguard... they have absolutely no say in what you build as long as it is not an INSPECTED VESSEL!  An inspected vessel is one that can take more than 6 passengers FOR HIRE ($$$).  All the USCG does on normal boaters is check safety gear, running lights and so on.  Case and point-- the Fold-A-Boat.  Anyhow, don't worry about the USCG.You are on track with the 3/16 bottom.  I would say get your machine, materials, pics and let it rip.  It will be way more expensive than buying a different "as built" but you will have fun doing it.Obviously you will have to get it registered and the normal paper work.  As to load capacity and max hp that is suggestions for Insurance company purposes.Here is another company that will send your design on cd to the metal shop and cut all pieces and all you have to do is put it together.  The way of the industry is to buy all pieces pre cut...  Skiff is pretty easy.  http://specmar.com/                    http://aluminumalloyboats.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=562Hey Kevin.....  is this you from Hatco Marine???  Long time no see...  I am over in Seward.Hope this helps.Last edited by six; 12-15-2010 at 03:30 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by sixHere are some aluminum builders:  Kvichak marine, Munson boats, Bayweld (homer, Ak), Glacier Craft (Anchorage, Ak), Allweld jon boats. --this is what you want.As to the coastguard... they have absolutely no say in what you build as long as it is not an INSPECTED VESSEL!  An inspected vessel is one that can take more than 6 passengers FOR HIRE ($$$).  All the USCG does on normal boaters is check safety gear, running lights and so on.  Case and point-- the Fold-A-Boat.  Anyhow, don't worry about the USCG.You are on track with the 3/16 bottom.  I would say get your machine, materials, pics and let it rip.  It will be way more expensive than buying a different "as built" but you will have fun doing it.Obviously you will have to get it registered and the normal paper work.  As to load capacity and max hp that is suggestions for Insurance company purposes.Here is another company that will send your design on cd to the metal shop and cut all pieces and all you have to do is put it together.  The way of the industry is to buy all pieces pre cut...  Skiff is pretty easy.  http://specmar.com/                    http://aluminumalloyboats.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=562Hey Kevin.....  is this you from Hatco Marine???  Long time no see...  I am over in Seward.Hope this helps.
Reply:Bryan, I was hoping the "rough" water spelling would come through a little better as I did read your post about running over logs and rocks. That was why I was pointing toward the tougher alloys as they'll stand up quite a bit longer than 5052 which is more widely stocked.Six, Kevin Hatten was/is(?) Hatco, Kevin was an apprentice in my shop decades ago when I built as Kasilof Boatworks on the southern end of the Kalifonsky Loop near Coal Creek ending in 1989.  Shop is still there but Kevin builds (used to build) at a shop nearer Soldotna.Let's not give Bryan27 the wrong idea: a boat built for sale is subject to regulation and if its under 20' its supposed to have level flotation and there is a test for that which the CG may drag a builder though?  Also the HIN and capacity plate ARE required, but the Alaskan CG has been very "understanding" of builders who don't get all the "eyes crossed and the Tee's dotted". We don't know if that will be the case in Bryan27's area?The reg.s may not have much influence in some of our shops because we're kind of a long way from anywhere (thankfully) but the Coasties in his area may have more time to visit a shop and 'inspect'?I know I'd built more than a few hundred boats before I ever saw a Coastie, but that was a while back and they've had more time to get more guys out and about.I don't want him to "worry" about the CG; but he does need to know the regulations or he'll end up getting hassled. Inspected/SubChapter T or six pack boats are not the sole focus of inspections of builders' shops, but you can get around all the regs by building for yourself only- if you happened to sell a used boat a few months down the road? well that was a used boat not built for sale.  Big difference.http://newboatbuilders.com/pages/links.html here's a link to a great site put up by a very knowledgeable guy who has tons of Coastie experience and lists of a million things to learn about being a new boat builder.  I recommend Ike's page to anyone, he's helped me find regulations and details for dozens of online discussions similar to this one.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai AK
Reply:Thanks for the update Kevin. You have built about 150 more than me.  Mine is 40' fiberglass/ SubT.. what fun...when I sell it. Ha!Great link that you listed!