|
|
I was just doing some browsing and saw this. It seems like whatever I do, with my new welder I cannot produce a nice concave bead! I am defintely not confident with my welds with that welder, nothing feels right! The digital aspect of my welder is the only thing I can think of that is throwing me off, its rediculous.. I may end up selling it for a new miller 210 or something? Last edited by jamlit; 02-12-2008 at 03:31 AM.HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:Originally Posted by fordmanI was just doing some browsing and saw this. It seems like whatever I do, with my new welder I cannot produce a nice concave bead! I am defintely not confident with my welds with that welder, nothing feels right! The digital aspect of my welder is the only thing I can think of that is throwing me off, its rediculous.. I may end up selling it for a new miller 210 or something?
Reply:I fixed your post so the picture showed up fordmanI think the weld in the pic is tigged. You can get close to that look with mig. Pulse mig will give you a similar look as well as the technique used with a regular mig. ZTFab told me to use a circular motion while welding. I found this to work fairly well for me but I liked the fact that I was moving the arc onto fresh metal and getting great penetration then reinforcing the weld I just laid down. Also the push pull method can cause this. Spending money on a new welding most likely will not help.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:That looks like it came out of a positioner...you'll never match that by hand.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:Oops, just after I posted above, the photo appeared. I don't understand why I couldn't see it before.That photo, if it's of a MIG weld trying to look like a TIG weld, has to be the result of the weldor's hand motion (up and back, aka stitch motion). There's more to it for sure if you're not a pro. Perfect settings on the proper machine for the material are necessary and the result of practice, practice, practice. I used to have a link to a welding video showing the motion, but can't find it now.
Reply:Pulsed MIG will not make that look. Its the nut behind the wheel. The man holding the mig gun makes those dime like beads. More heat, pretty quick motion. Circular, or ahead and back depending on the situation. It can be done, but......Not necessary. Forehand is the first thing that comes to mind. If you do any kind of weave, you need more heat especially circular motion. Concave bead..... not good. A bead should be flat across the top to be the strongest. Anything more than that (convex) is wasted metal. If the puddle is hot enough, a back and forth or a UUUUU motion can result in that look too. Olddad is right on, it was done on a positioner, probably vertical up or some where between that and flat.Forehand, flatter bead less penetration. Backhand (pull) deeper penetration, taller narrower bead.I don't need no stinkin dimes!DavidReal world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:done a few things in my life that compare to the skill required to make that weld. two off the top of my head are cake decorating, and tattooing.
Reply:It's a mig bead in the pic. Originally Posted by David RPulsed MIG will not make that look. Its the nut behind the wheel. The man holding the mig gun makes those dime like beads. More heat, pretty quick motion. Circular, or ahead and back depending on the situation. It can be done, but......Not necessary. Forehand is the first thing that comes to mind. If you do any kind of weave, you need more heat especially circular motion. Concave bead..... not good. A bead should be flat across the top to be the strongest. Anything more than that (convex) is wasted metal. If the puddle is hot enough, a back and forth or a UUUUU motion can result in that look too. Olddad is right on, it was done on a positioner, probably vertical up or some where between that and flat.Forehand, flatter bead less penetration. Backhand (pull) deeper penetration, taller narrower bead.I don't need no stinkin dimes!David
Reply:Originally Posted by jamlitI fixed your post so the picture showed up fordmanI think the weld in the pic is tigged. You can get close to that look with mig. Pulse mig will give you a similar look as well as the technique used with a regular mig. ZTFab told me to use a circular motion while welding. I found this to work fairly well for me but I liked the fact that I was moving the arc onto fresh metal and getting great penetration then reinforcing the weld I just laid down. Also the push pull method can cause this. Spending money on a new welding most likely will not help.
Reply:That's definitely a mig weld done in a horizontal positioner. Very nice weld indeed.Clarke 130EN C25Lincoln 225 AC Stick(1968)Smith O/A RigHF 4X6 Red BandsawBlack & Decker Pro Chopsaw16 Speed Drill PressSpeedglas XL HelmetHarbor Freight Stuff
Reply:I say it's a TIG weld done in a positioner. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:I say MIG. You can see the small amount of crap at the crest of each bead.This can be done easily with smaller diameter wire and a consistent forward, pause, forward, pause motion.ScottHaul a bike without straps - visit www.mxtras.com to see how!
Reply:When I get my positioner, I'll try it. No idea when that will be.David Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by MXtrasThis can be done easily with smaller diameter wire and a consistent forward, pause, forward, pause motion.Scott
Reply:That is certainly MIG on a positioner with a consistant rotation speed on the shaft while making the weld.If you've ever been in a driveshaft shop and watched the process, that's exactly what it looks like with MIG. These shops have it down to a science. And yes- it looks like that without pulse. I used to be at the shaft shop once a month when I was a psycho 4 wheeler in my 79 Dodge Sno-Commander.
Reply:i have a miller 210 and i cant match that bead,its probably someone way better at welding than me
Reply:Originally Posted by turboblownThat is certainly MIG on a positioner with a consistant rotation speed on the shaft while making the weld.If you've ever been in a driveshaft shop and watched the process, that's exactly what it looks like with MIG. These shops have it down to a science. And yes- it looks like that without pulse. I used to be at the shaft shop once a month when I was a psycho 4 wheeler in my 79 Dodge Sno-Commander.
Reply:Here is the piece getting welded. http://pirate4x4.com/tech/harry/twis.../07welding.jpg Looks good to me, I am pretty sure its MIGHTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:I agree about the bead having to be AT LEAST flat. I however think that a small convex, is the best. I agree that you don't need to over weld; with a larger convex on most things. I also think that a continuous weld bead would be stronger than the stack of dimes.
Reply:Originally Posted by dadI also think that a continuous weld bead would be stronger than the stack of dimes.
Reply:I've worked in shops where all they know is the tack method...mainy for 3G welds. Suffice to say, I don't work in those shops anymore. Nothing says "Farm code" like zap...zap...zap... (no relation to the person, lol!) Hell, I worked in a shop where they would zap tack uphill with metalcore, then downhill a metalcore weld overtop. In that shop, I pulled teeth to get an all position wire for all the uphill stuff, and the metalcore monkeys there didn't even show an interest in learning how to use it...fun stuff.Last edited by mb_welder; 02-13-2008 at 07:15 AM.
Reply:There's no telling how many people actually "weld" with this method on structural stuff just because they think that's the way you get the stack of dimes appearance. I would bet there are several here at this site that do, but I would also bet no one would admit it.DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:Slight convex is desirable. Concave is not. If you want a concave surface for cosmetic reasons or for load distribution, reprofile after the completion of welding by either grinding or machining.See fig 4 (page 3) http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ldcracking.pdf
Reply:I just don't understand why everyone wants the "dimes look" on critical or structural items.It looks nice in some places like running and step boards, truck tool boxes and other cosmetic areas, but to me a weld that penetrates and is solid is what matters. You want to see some schitty looking welds that are strong? Look into any stock car that runs in a sanctioned class all the way up to NASCAR.
Reply:Originally Posted by littlefuzzThe "stack of dimes" is continuous. Only the dumbazz "weldors" do the tack method. Maybe the tack method is good on some real thin material but not on anything structual.Originally Posted by dadMaybe I used the wrong word. I realize that it is a continuous bead ( not tack after tack ). What I'm saying is that the stack of dimes comprimizes weld integrity, versus, a uniform bead, with no low and high spots, that makes the stack look. I know, people do it every, but bottom line is it is weaker. Kinda like a concave is typically weaker than a convex bead, as long as it isn't over welded.
Reply:I think I see the "glassed look" of the argon around the face and root sometimes seen in GMAW aka mig lol.At first I thought no way, but yeah I'll bet its mig. Thats pretty dang good.Zap your opinion?Last edited by lewray; 02-13-2008 at 09:11 PM. weld it like you own it
Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lumhave you done test to prove this accuization because i disagree.
Reply:Originally Posted by David R2. Poor Torch Oscillation: If a weldermakes little circles with the torch, it iseasier to make a pretty bead, but there isa good chance for lack of fusion. As thetorch moves back into the puddle, themolten metal doesnt stop and wait. Itcontinues to advance, but without thebenefit of the intense heat of the arc tomelt the base metal. The puddle just lieson top of the work instead of fusing to it.Exaggerated oscillation produces thesame problem.I got this here http://www.prest-o-sales.com/other_l...on%20Steel.pdf
Reply:Today I was welding some pipes to flanges. 3 1/2" pipe OD to a 1 1/4" thick flange on the outside. I have a hand powered positioner that is nothing more than an axle off a trailer.While doing one, Instead of turning the piece in a nice smooth motion, I wiggled it back and forth a little to get that dime look. I could see with my own eyes the weld wasn't as good because the wire was not directed in the root of the weld at all times. It was going back into the puddle. I got a pretty weld, but......dimesNo dimesDavidReal world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by lewrayDavid I disagree with only 5% of your opinions...however man that makes great sense I never thought of it that way.
Reply:Whoever started this "Stack of Dimes" crap should be shot & whizzed on.GMAW (Mig) welds should look like GMAW welds.GTAW (Tig) welds look like GTAW welds - Totally different.Trying to make a GMAW weld LOOK like GTAW = Start/Stop/Start/Stop weld that is not as strong as it should/could be.I'm leaning towards the group that identifies this as a GMAW (Mig) weld because I can see silicon islands on the deposits. Now, if this is a GMAW weld, it is stretched out & sloppy, the pattern should be much tighter, but the operator was trying for the "Stack of Dimes" look. IF this is a GTAW (Tig) weld, then it is even sloppier, and the weldor needs to be retrained 'cause that pattern is just WRONG and reminds me of a girl I used to know.....Loose & Sloppy & embarrasing to be seen with in the daylight.Weld bead profiles should be flat to slightly convex for re-inforcement...We're talking the thickness of a dime or two here - No wasted metal.Opinions vary. This is mine.Later,Jason
Reply:David it's all about proper technique and settings. I can do a weld getting a stack of dimes that holds up in destructive testing just as good as a plain strait bead. --Gol'
Reply:problems with 'stack of dimes' welds (no matter what the process):Each dime comes with its very own stress riser. Under some conditions of loading, this is a place for cracking to start.The dimes come with concave sections at the edges. The surface of the weld metal is placed in greater tension as the weld cools than a flat to convex profile, and is more likely to crack, especially as the greatest tension often occurs at the centerline where other properties of the weld make cracking most likely.With some processes, the dimes come as a result of technique that can lead to good fusion (TIG, or 6010 stick), other processes they come as a result of technique that can be detrimental to good fusion (MIG)There is no inherent benefit to a weld that has this look, and there are often drawbacks. Will the weld be 'weaker' (easy word, but not one with a precise definition without further context)? Not necessarily, but often.
Reply:my mig welding teacher yells at me for welds like this for no other reason than the fact it doesnt look like a stack of dimes... I try but I'm not that good yet so it just makes me weld even worse and no ones given me a straight answer on why I'm suppose to be doing it. Attached ImagesI like to party!
Reply:Originally Posted by David RdimesDavid
Reply:You're all amateurs , this is one of mine. (MIG)
Reply:Originally Posted by CaptainWillymy mig welding teacher yells at me for welds like this for no other reason than the fact it doesnt look like a stack of dimes... I try but I'm not that good yet so it just makes me weld even worse and no ones given me a straight answer on why I'm suppose to be doing it.
Reply:This is a result of filling a gap. It was a back and forth weave. Its just the way it comes out. the ripples are on the surface, the puddle was quite hot and fluid.The stringer on the left is just that.I just make my welds for strength. DavidLast edited by David R; 02-14-2008 at 06:32 AM.Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by CaptainWillymy mig welding teacher yells at me for welds like this for no other reason than the fact it doesnt look like a stack of dimes... I try but I'm not that good yet so it just makes me weld even worse and no ones given me a straight answer on why I'm suppose to be doing it.
Reply:Problem solved how about we all keep doing what we've been doing for years. Obviously all of our individual techniques are working because no one has died yet that I've heard of. I'll do it my way and you do it your way. --Gol'
Reply:CaptainWilly, might your instructor have been talking about the little bit of sag, or maybe the stop/start in the center ?? As for your bead it looks good, the sag is barely noticable and the restart can be eliminated by learning to shuffle your feet. If in fact your instructor really does have a problem over the "stack of dimes" BS then he needs to do some tech reading !!Wello, that's the best looking/strongest bead on the page !!David R, your's look like most experienced mig welders. Absolutely nothing structurally wrong with them. They look like something I might have done. Purty don't make them better and is not needed unless it's called for and paid for. I'd rather burn rod than wire though...too many years of trigger monkey burnt me out...lol.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:I guess its just a pet peeve of mine. I see quite a few new guys here trying to make their mig look like a tig weld when what they really need is a good strong solid weld. I get paid for strong not pretty. I want my welds to hold. That is all there is to it. And thank you Olddad.Mat, my daughter took 3 years of welding in high school. It was stick only. Her teacher used to say "I want to see C's not V's. I never understood that because the heat is hotter and you are going faster leaving a wake like a motor boat. I agree with Olddad, yours and Wello's look great to me. If I am going to use a circular weave, I have to turn the heat way up because the mig gun is moving a lot faster, then I can weld faster....Put more metal down in less time. With more heat Its fine to me. Some of my jobs are piece work. I like to play "Beat the clock". Put down more metal in less time = more $ in my pocket. I still need the best weld I can produce.David Maybe we can put this one to rest ..... for now.Last edited by David R; 02-14-2008 at 05:33 PM.Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I think all of us welders strive for strength in our welds, or at least should. My welds have to be strong (some of the components hold up hanging mezanines) and they also have to look good. I get paid to for strength and looks, if it won't hold or don't look good it don't go out the door!I agree there's nothing wrong with Wello's bead, it looks great. I run mine like that on some stuff but there's also times when I prefer doing it other ways. Yall don't weld EVERYTHING exactly the same, do ya? Of course not, we all use different methods from time to time. If everyone done everything the same none of these welding forums would be here.DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:Originally Posted by littlefuzzI think all of us welders strive for strength in our welds, or at least should. My welds have to be strong (some of the components hold up hanging mezanines) and they also have to look good. I get paid to for strength and looks, if it won't hold or don't look good it don't go out the door!I agree there's nothing wrong with Wello's bead, it looks great. I run mine like that on some stuff but there's also times when I prefer doing it other ways. Yall don't weld EVERYTHING exactly the same, do ya? Of course not, we all use different methods from time to time. If everyone done everything the same none of these welding forums would be here.
Reply:Originally Posted by enlpckSlight convex is desirable. Concave is not. If you want a concave surface for cosmetic reasons or for load distribution, reprofile after the completion of welding by either grinding or machining.http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ldcracking.pdf |
|
发表于 2021-9-1 00:22:30