Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

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Im about to take the welding certification for the state of Oregon doing beveled and I was looking through this welding book and it goes from 1G(flat), 2-G(horizontal), 3-G(vertical), 4-G(overhead). I have had people tell me 4-G surpasses all welding positions in beveled. Now I had someone else tell me 4-G surpasses 2-G and 3-G suprpasses 1-G.  Whats the truth? Whos right?
Reply:6G is the toughest
Reply:Originally Posted by qaqc6G is the toughest
Reply:Rat,     I would take the 3g and 4g test. Those are the ones to pass in order to get yourL.A. city license in CA.
Reply:6G is a PIPE test, not plate.  You may be looking at plate positions, and that's why it's not listed.
Reply:Originally Posted by JayORat,     I would take the 3g and 4g test. Those are the ones to pass in order to get yourL.A. city license in CA.
Reply:6G is a pipe, vee groove, butt joint set at a 45 degree angle, no rotation allowed. If that test plate exceeds 1/2" in thickness, (or even if it's exactly 1/2" thick), you need to preheat it with a torch. Heat the whole test piece, not just the vee groove. These 3G coupons were done with mig and no preheat. Look close, it's kinda hard to see the small flaws!   Preheat!City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediver6G is a pipe, vee groove, butt joint set at a 45 degree angle, no rotation allowed. If that test plate exceeds 1/2" in thickness, (or even if it's exactly 1/2" thick), you need to preheat it with a torch. Heat the whole test piece, not just the vee groove. These 3G coupons were done with mig and no preheat. Look close, it's kinda hard to see the small flaws!   Preheat!
Reply:I don't know, I never got that far...City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by RaTyBaStArDNow heres another question; Does 6-G surpass all of the other groove tests?
Reply:I disagree with preheat on those test coupons. It looks like piss poor welding to me. It almost looks like someone got "Weave Happy" and wasnt tieing in there corners or exceded weave limit. In the end, due to piss poor welding not to preheat.
Reply:Is that a 3 pass root?
Reply:Originally Posted by RaTyBaStArDNow for 6-G; there is no such position in the grooved tests. It only goes up to 4-G. And "Engloid" is right, 6-G is part of the pipe test;
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverIf that test plate exceeds 1/2" in thickness, (or even if it's exactly 1/2" thick), you need to preheat it with a torch. Heat the whole test piece, not just the vee groove.
Reply:Wow guys! Don't take my failed example so seriously! Let me say this, it was my first vee groove, 1" plate, 3G practice weld from school. I kept a lot of my school work, this being one of them. I say preheat from 1/2" thick and up, because that is the way I was taught to weld. Code says what the code says, but my semi-automatic teacher said at 1/2 thick, start preheating. This example got NO PREHEAT and is 1" thick. The weave is stretched a bit from the side bend, but was in fact, too wide. I measured 7/16" wide at the stretch. Techniques aside, the lack of preheat caused it to cold start with mig. If I had preheated to 150 degrees like I should have, it would not haved cracked as bad as that! My very next practice coupon did not suffer a catastrophic failure, and only small inclusions were found from then on. Solid wire mig welding for certification has, in this region, fallen out of favor with structural weldors. Fluxcored welding has become the industry standard process. I trained in mig, because I work in a repair shop. At this time, however, one may certify in structural, semi-automatic welding with solid wire mig. Semi-auto is an addition to the manual process certification.Last edited by tanglediver; 04-04-2008 at 10:37 PM.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Ok, I forgot to mention that Im taking the test with 3/8 inch plate. Now I want to take the tests vertical and overhead, cause thats what my future job wants. I read that in order to weld vertical and overhead I have to use Short Arc transfer.Is there a special technique on doing vertical or overhead? I was told overhead is exactly like flat, but vertical is quite different. I've practiced both with poor results; although my vertical down looked great. The book said I can take the vertical test either up or down, but everyone tells me that up is the way to go and that it is stronger then going down. What do you guys think or suggest? Ohh and Im using an old skool industrial MIG; Im using it with a solid wire with 95% argon and 5% oxygen. Should I be using a flux cored wire for the test? What about double shielding? If you guys have any pictures that I could look at of certified tests, that would be great. Thats vertical and overhead tests I mean. Thanks
Reply:I currently have an all position 7018 cert (AWS D1.1-04) for Oregon.  I tested on 3/8" plate doing a vertical up and overhead which qualified me for 1/8" to 3/4" plate.  I wouldn't bother with flat and horizontal before the test because that is not part of the test.  As far as I know, the GMAW proccess is the same as SMAW.  As for gasses and wires, it depends on which route you want to go.  Dual Shield is great for in-house welding, where as inner shield is for the field.  Of all the shops I have worked in, GMAW was usually certified in-house with no state recognition beyond that business.  And the test usually was flat and horizontal.  They've told me that in a shop, you can theoretically flip whatever you are welding into those positions so there was no need for an all position cert.I don't have any coupons because for the state ones, they usually send them to a testing outfit at swan island in portland and you don't see them again.-MikeCommon sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:Hey, thanks alot "Brainfarth" and everyone else; that was very helpful. Now if I take the vertical test going down, will that stand out in the certification; like do employers look down on it? or is vertical, just vertical (if you know what I mean). Im going to make some practice pieces/coupons tonight at school and test the root/face on the bender. Now if I pass that; all I have to worry about is the x-ray, right? I'll try to get some pics posted later. Thanks
Reply:You should be following a standard for that test. It shouldnt be one or the other. You should be making an uphill progression if they are following D1.1 unless they have qualified that in the past. I have taken a similar 3g 4g test  on 1" material. I qualified using the FCAW process and GMAW process. And to the Above, I didnt mean to be an AZZ. I was having a bad day.Last edited by Dirty_d; 04-10-2008 at 07:15 PM.
Reply:Well I took the State test and passed  It took them a little while to test my pieces (like 3months) but I got my certification. AWS D1.1-04, GMAW, 3G, 4G (all positions). Im stoked!!! I actually already got a welding job too....yay 4 summer  Now I want to get certifications in Tig, Stick, n all that good stuff. I wanna learn how to read blueprints too...anyone know a good blueprint site or something?
Reply:good job
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverWow guys! Don't take my failed example so seriously! Let me say this, it was my first vee groove, 1" plate, 3G practice weld from school. I kept a lot of my school work, this being one of them. I say preheat from 1/2" thick and up, because that is the way I was taught to weld. Code says what the code says, but my semi-automatic teacher said at 1/2 thick, start preheating. This example got NO PREHEAT and is 1" thick. The weave is stretched a bit from the side bend, but was in fact, too wide. I measured 7/16" wide at the stretch. Techniques aside, the lack of preheat caused it to cold start with mig. If I had preheated to 150 degrees like I should have, it would not haved cracked as bad as that! My very next practice coupon did not suffer a catastrophic failure, and only small inclusions were found from then on. Solid wire mig welding for certification has, in this region, fallen out of favor with structural weldors. Fluxcored welding has become the industry standard process. I trained in mig, because I work in a repair shop. At this time, however, one may certify in structural, semi-automatic welding with solid wire mig. Semi-auto is an addition to the manual process certification.
Reply:"those were side bends commonly done in schools where they don't have a tester big enough for bending the full 1 inch coupons. keep in mind if they cant bend 1 inch coupons the root and face direction then they cant certify you for 1 inch which is good for unlimited thickness in the filed."The code referenced was D1.1 2004. Per this code side bends are required for the 1" plate test for unlimited thickness, not face and root bends.jrw159
Reply:i stand corrected i didnt think they could certify on a side bend.
Reply:I just recently took the AWS D1.1-08 at LCC and we were certified with side bends. I also took the AWS D1.5-08 at work and I believe that was a side bend test also. Both tests with FCAW-G 100% co2 and both in the 3G positionHey guys, I'm Mike from Portland, OR. I'm new here but I'm glad I found this place!I'm interested in pursuing welding as a career and hobby. I haven't welded jack in 15 years and then it was only minor projects using a stick. I wondered if you fellas could provide some advice? I would like to find some affordable, comprehensive, credible training in the area. I'm presently a pharmacy technician and I own/operate a body piercing shop and I want to do something new. I'm also an electronics technician and a network engineering tech but I guess I haven't found my calling yet, although I've been great at all I've pursued thusfar. My motivation for changing career paths is twofold. 1) I'm bored. 2) I've got a wee bit of a rap sheet on me from some unfortunate past mistakes. I want a career I can pursue anywhere in the US as a felon with a federal smuggling conviction on me.I know PCC offers some coursework that appears to be pretty comprehensive and I'm excited by the prospect of pursuing it. I've also been told that there are shops out there that will train a guy if he's willing to pay for the certification and will work for the shop for some agreed upon length of time. Is that so? Is there any way to get some hands on training/employment post haste around here? Any advice is greatly appreciated and anyone willing to instruct gets beer and entertaining company. Thank you.Mike.