How am I doing? (with pics)

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got my HF dual 151 yesterday. I'm a total noob when it comes to welding. so I practiced on this joint today with some 1" square CRS tubing (.065") I bought at Lowes. All this was with .030 HF flux-core wire.1st attempt:  I forgot to clean the metal first, and it blew through. I think the settings were Min 1 and WFS at about 5. I had a long string of wire left sticking out (maybe 1.25 inch) of the torch when I was through.2nd attempt: I turned the WFS down and cleaned the metal. Not too good.3rd attempt: Cranked up the amps adn turned down the WFS. I think this was Max 2 and WFS = 24th attempt: (no photo) welded the inside joint, but i missed and the bead was high of the joint. I ground it down and tried again.5th attempt: I find it really hard to actually SEE where I'm welding once the thing is going. But this time I got it in the joint. Settings were Max 2 and WFS = 0. This time I didn't wind up with a lot of wire sticking out when I was done like the earlier tries. Seems like for .065 steel I should be using maybe Min 2 or max 1 not max 2 and more wire feed speed? But I got what to me looks like a good bead (except for the pinhole). Any suggestions or comments are very welcome.
Reply:johnbro.....think you need to resize your pix first, as far as the welds. The last pix. dosent look to bad for the first time. I think you let the clutch out without stalling the motor "a good thing" just keep laying the beads you will get there. good jobIn the words of the great philosopher Quagmire.Gigedy Gigedy Gigedy Gigidey Goo.
Reply:Hey John,I must say, you, admitting to be a noob, & showing your 1st attempts with pics, at least have the courage to ask for some guidance. That is a start. Asking the members for their opinions & possible criticism, whether it be the unit you purchased, or the terrible welding, you appear to be sincere wanting to learn the correct procedures. Not like some who come here & feel they can just "skip" around procedures & gradual learning increments to get proficient with welding because they seem to "know-it-all".Ok, I will tell you that maybe you want to ask the mods to move this to the Harbor Freight board & you can read my post on the HF151 on setting up. Even though my post was with using solid wire & gas, the operational parameters of heat/WF will be proportional. Flux-core can be a bugger, or it can be smoothly run..... gotta learn the proper methods for success. Make sure your polarity is correct.... +(positive)ground..... -(neg)gun. Just look inside below the wire rollers at the terminals..... they show correct connections for solid or flux-core.Next, your vision has to be clear to observe the puddle. If you don't have an AD helmet, get the blue-flame one from HF as it is a good unit to start with & inexpensive. Then you must bear in mind that flux-core runs with the "pull" technique..... the motto is: "with slag...drag". Solid wire & gas is usually "push" technique. There are occasions when you can reverse technique for a particular situation such as inside corners or penetration factors. You will learn in time. Practice as much as possible will increase your success rate & produce good weldments. Listen, that unit is a decent unit to learn on & will serve you well if you understand its' limitations. I don't know if you got the extended warranty or not, so, since HF will exchange it within 90days of purchase without question if something goes wrong, run it every day as much as possible. I'd also suggest you get some better f-c wire such as Lincoln 211MP or Hobart E71T-1/11 & stay with the .030.Ok, we'll see if we can get you up 'n runnin' & help you understand the intro into the welding arena. You'll like it...DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:i think you paid more for the camera then the the welder
Reply:Ahhh ed mac,Typical mindless diatribe......DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:practice practice practice...... you will get itYa gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:I'm glad you chimed in YORKIE with some helpful tips, instead of the same ole beat horse antics of, you cant do that with that machine, or take it back an get your money back. Motivation of what they can accomplish if they stick with it,is so much more helpful.In the words of the great philosopher Quagmire.Gigedy Gigedy Gigedy Gigidey Goo.
Reply:Get a piece of 1/4 plate and practice a lot.Make sure you can see the puddle.Your last pic was an improvement.http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000825140116 Lincoln Weldanpower Model # AC-225/DC-210/6 portable,LN-25 suitcase feeder,Harbor Freight 80 AMP Inverter DC Tig
Reply:Yup, practice is what you need.With more arc time, you'll begin to recognize the puddle, and know what to look for.If your helmet filter is bad, then that could make it difficult to see as well, but getting an eye for what the arc looks like, what to expect and where to look, takes time.Try this on thicker sheet, where you don't have to worry about blowing through, and can concentrate on melting wire.  Then you can dial in settings, and your form.
Reply:those are some clear pictures... is that a phone or camera your using? my blackberry with 3.2megapixel camera dont take pictures like that..
Reply:Like other's  say,  get a piece of 1/4" and practice your timing, rythem, and get to where you can see the puddle. After that then you can dial in for your thickness. Keep it up and good luck!My toys:Mobile Set Up    Miller Bobcat 225NT    Oxy Acetylene cutting set up    Red D Arc 12VS wire feeder    Spoolmate 3035 spoolgun     Scratch Start TIG DCMiller Elite auto hood
Reply:Get some 2" x 1/8" Flat stock and cut it up in to 4-6" lengths and use those for practice. When yer done you'll have a piece of abstract artReally though the tubing is rather this to start learning on.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by johnbroCranked up the amps adn turned down the WFS. I think this was Max 2 and WFS = 2.
Reply:Thanks for all the suggestions and help so far. I was a bit unclear yesterday: along wtih the 151 I bought the "skull" helmet at HF, along with a cheap apron (strings are too short to tie easily), a better ground clamp, an argon bottle, welding cart, and gloves. I had a nice 10/2 extension cord at home for various pieces of WW machinery so the short stock cord was not a problem.My 220 circuits are all 30 amp so I think I'm getting it plenty of juice for the light duty stuff I'm doing right now.Day 2: Went to Central Welding Supply and bought some Lincoln tips for my HF 151. Went to HF and bought MIG pliers. Cleaned inside of the bright shiny thingie on the end of the gun adn replaced the HF tip with a Lincoln tip. Last night I found some welding videos that were helpful so I thought I'd try laying down some more beads, this time on some 1/8" plate I bought at Lowes. (Also bought some soapstone so I could have a line to follow).First attempt:2nd attempt: The nice fellas at CWS said I should get some C25 in my tank and use non FC wire for easier time on sheet metal. You guys say get some 1/4" to practice on so I'll try that before I take the FC wire out of the machine.I found an artist who will teach me how to weld. She does a lot of metal art and makes some side cash by doing classes or 1-1 tutoring. On the photography: 1. yes, the camera cost more than the welder. (I have cameras like some of you guys have welders). 2. No, it's not a cell-phone camera. Those are inherently lousy for lots of reasons (like HF welders?). This particular camera is a Canon powershot S90 with an F2.0 lens. These pics were taken with no flash, macro focus setting, ISO set to 640, hand held at 1/60 sec.The S90 is a lovely little pocket camera. since I got it I hardly ever get my big digital SLR stuff out of the bag.
Reply:Hey John,Yes, you are improving. Listen, you need to keep in mind that flux-core has slag & you have to either chip it with a chipping hammer or wire brush it before starting or continuing a present weld bead. Gotta have clean metal to start even with f-c. Also, you will get much more positive starts by cutting the end of the wire prior to each start... about 3/8" stickout will work nicely. Another consideration is if running f-c with the nozzle on, there is a good possibility of getting some splatter inside the nozzle that will clog the gas ports. On (2) of my f-c units, I made f-c nozzles that block the ports so only the tip is sticking out & no splatter can get inside. Attached is a pic. Easy to make if you have a lathe of someone you know who has one. The second pic is me using my old one on a field job on a cold, blustery spring morning with f-c wire. You can sorta see it on the cart behind me. It worked great on that job.You must really consider the thicknesses of material you are going to do & bear in mind that that unit will work well up to 3/16"(.187) & that's it. In very experienced hands, with proper beveling, 90* gun angle, & f-c wire, it is possible to do 1/4"(.250). Practice on 3/16" or thinner to get the feel of running continuous beads. Solid wire(ER70S-6) & C25 make quite a difference as you will see. Don't downplay or feel that unit is a piece of junk...it isn't. I have one of the new ones & (3) old ones(Italy) & they work great. It is a good beginner unit & will allow you to learn. Keep practicing.....each time improves your skills.Denny Attached ImagesComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Keep working with what you have.  Every person starts somewhere.  I've got a little 110v fluxcore and I'm secure in myself to have it posted in my sig.   Besides my daddy can beat up your daddy so there!  I just started using my little FC machine in the last few months so the first beads are fresh in my mind.  I echo the comment to keep practicing.  I know it might seem like it'll take forever before you're laying down more consistent weld beads but it will happen if you keep adjusting and learning (like you're showing you will do). I used some 12 & 14ga scrap to practice on.  Cleaning the metal to shiny really helped me see better.  I also think once basics are habit, it forms a good foundation for the overall result.  I find cleaning and beveling take longer, especially on scrap pieces, but I think these are details that will pay off in the long run.  Definitely toy with the WFS for the different thicknesses of metal you weld on.  A tick or two up or down can make a big difference on hows smooth the arc is.  The less you're fighting to keep a good arc, the more you can concentrate on looking for the puddle and moving the gun smoothly down the joint.  The best thing I did for myself was get an autodim helmet.  I could start an arc exactly where I need it and get familiar with the muscle memory of where my arm and body was positioned in regards to where it needed to be.  Right now try to position the workpiece so the joint is nice and flat and you're comfortable as you stand over it.  The eliminates the puddle variables (like going up or down).  I suggest you run your machine on "the wrong" settings as well.  What this does is give you a set of examples to compare.  You can see how the arc sounds and looks when the settings are not ideal.  Run them tick by tick (I've got 0-10 WFS and I ran a bead on each).  This really helped me to see what is good and what isn't.  Newb eyes don't know what good welds/settings should look like.  So, create a variety of welds to start teaching yourself.  You'll be able to compare your group of beads..."Hmm, this looks better than that one"..."this is too hot"..."this is way too slow"..."too much splatter"...."wire feed was too fast"..."it piled up"..."this looks cold"...etcLearning a new task requires building an entire new set of cognitive motor skills.  Until the eyes, brain and muscles run through a specific task, they will never build the pathways to turn the task into a skilled movement.  The more you do it, the more skilled your brain and body get at executing it.  Oh geez, my formal education is coming out.  I gotta go.  Keep going, you're doing fine and from the pics you posted, there is improvement shown in your welds.   I've got a LONG way to go myself, but I sympathize with where you're at.  Lincoln AC225 and CartLincoln WeldPak HD and CartOne hand
Reply:Day 3 Tribulations (with gas)No, I didn't have beans for lunch. I did, however, get some C25 from Mr. LWS, along with some .023 non-flux wire. I put it in the welder, changed the tip to the right size one, and hooked up my HF argon/C02 regulator to the tank, Hit some 1/16" (.065) square tubing (same piece as in the pictures above). Big trouble.Question 1: How do you set the gas pressure? It seems like opening the control valve on the regulator just gives me one pressure. opening it more just pegs it out. is this the "right" pressure? How do you know? What are the two scales (inside and out)?Question 2: I couldn't weld with the gas for spit. I turned the wirefeed down and up---at anything under full tilt bozo it sounded like a machine gun--sort of popped and spat. You can see it in the welds on the right (not the one in the joint, that was my "good" one from before). There's no penetration, and the wire was sticking out maybe 2 inches when I shut it off. Finally I turned the WF speed all the way to max (amp setting was on Max 1) and it started sizzling but burned through (3 welds on the left). Left-most weld was set at MIN 2 and wirefeed  at 8 I think. That one welded the wire to the tip--I guess I got too close with the tip.Any suggestions? I thought welding with gas was supposed to be EASIER than FC wire!Last edited by johnbro; 11-10-2010 at 09:03 PM.Reason: forgot image
Reply:One Gauge is for the TankThe other Gauge is for the Flow of the gas.Outer ring is Litres per Min=  L/mn   Inner Ring is Cubic Feet Per Hour = CFHYou should be able to dial in the Flow rate: around 20CFH or 10 L/mn iffin ya wanna use Metric systemEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Remember that when you want less gas and turn the reg down, you have to trigger the gun to relieve the pressure to read the new setting. Often it's easier to back the screw all the way down to zero, then slowly turn it up so you can watch the increase rather than try and back it down.You'll go thru gas at a fantastic rate the way you have it set. 10 to 20 on the outer dial is good depending on conditions. You'll see it pretty quick if you don't have enough flow. Outter readings are in Cubic feet per hour, inner ones are in liters.Gas mig runs colder than FC wire. It's not at all unusual to have to turn the volts/wire feed up. The 2nd one from the left looks like you were getting close. Those machines are notorious for being a bit tough to set because of the way they are made, the limited voltage settings and the erratic wire feed in some. Try that setting, but move faster to cut down the heat some..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I think you missed a step as well.Change the polarity of the gun when going from flux core to solid with gas.MillerMatic 252, HTP 221 w/cooler, Hypertherm PM45, Lincoln IdealArc 250 AC/DC"I'd like to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible"
Reply:Hi Ya Johnbro, I seen you are getting some great advice here. Your pictures certainly show that you have been practicing. I use an old Century 135GL gas mig for all my sheet metal and thinner bar stock welds and it has never failed me! If you go to the Projects & Pictures forum as well as the Harbor Freight forum you'll be able to see some of the work other HF 151 owners have posted.As for some steel to practice on!!!!!No offence to buying steel from Lowe's or Home Depot. But, for just practicing try looking around on trash days for metal that folks are throwing away. Steel bedframes, metal cabinets, store displays and metal shelving are great sources for steel and will save some bucks for other welding tool you'll find useful. Those bedframes make excellent welding carts that you can custom build the way that you want.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Originally Posted by frieedI think you missed a step as well.Change the polarity of the gun when going from flux core to solid with gas.
Reply:been there, done that... more than onceMillerMatic 252, HTP 221 w/cooler, Hypertherm PM45, Lincoln IdealArc 250 AC/DC"I'd like to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible"
Reply:Well, once I got the gas thing somewhat sorted out (including half a bottle to a leak from a loose fitting) I think I'm doing a bit better. If any other noobs happen to read this, take heart: with no talent whatsoever but just a bit of trial and error, even a HF welder can make an acceptable, if not glamorous, weld:I tacked it first on the left, then welded it up. The hardest thing for me is still seeing the seam I'm trying to weld. Clearly some strong lighting on the work won't hurt. I do have to say that the AD helmets are a HUGE improvement over the aim and shake style of my old stick welding days. I have a 4 hour welding class on Saturday. I expect when I'm finished I'll be able to start fabbing some parts.John
Reply:Hey John,Yup, looks like you're starting to get a weld bead. Gas does make a cleaner weld bead, although do not discount f-c completely. Each has a place & optimum usage for conditions.When you post a pic of your progress, most newbies forget to list the settings, ie., heat/wf/cfh & gas grade(ex.C25). Also, at times, it helps to list your wf ipm by using the 5sec method(12 X wire length). In your case with the HF151, heat is Min/Max, 1 & 2 & wf is 0-10. You will find you will get much better results with .030 dia wire. Your pic looks like the material is in the 1/8"(.125) range & I would guesstimate your settings should be in the Max2, WF 5-8 range. A good bead requires your consistency..... angle, stickout, & travel speed. Cut wire prior to each start. Don't hesitate to use a light to brighten the weld area. Each variation will affect bead profile. Practice is the key.....Once you have confidence, post your samples here for an evaluation, list your settings, & material dimensions. That way, we can illuminate any discrepancies & a solution. Be sure to always check your gas connections. When I bought mine, I found the crappy hose crimp-on clamp on the back of the unit to be loose & would leak if I had it hooked up to my bottle. I removed it & put on a good USA screw clamp. There is no gas solenoid, the gas flow is opened with a spring valve in the gun, so be sure to press the trigger completely. Ok.... keep us posted....DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."Don't buy metal from a hardware store.  Seriously, it's outrageous.  You can go to a metal yard and they will cut a 20' into different lengths for a fee and you will still come out (way) ahead.  I usually have them cut my pieces in half and they do it for way cheap or for free.  Cheers!
Reply:I agree with most of what's been mentioned. I would, however, avoid welding on bed frames and junk. Bed rails are a crap shoot of metal mixes. If you have fresh metal you'll learn faster as there will be fewer variables to affect the weld. But I do agree that you should try to find a better point of purchase. Go to the local fab shops and intro. yourself, and ask if you can have or buy some 1/8" (good thickness to practice on) off cuts to practice on. Lots of places just have bins of the stuff. Local metal supplier may have crops you can have/buy too. Be friendly and direct and don't cause them a hassle and most people will be glad to help. If you get freebies, beer on a Friday is a nice thank you. Keep it in a bag and give it to the boss so it doesn't get opened too early! weldingtipsandtricks.com has great info and videos, as does Miller's site.For solid wire, try keeping the nozzle( the shiny cup-thing ) level with the contact tip( the copper bit that threads in and the wire comes out.) or even have the contact tip sticking out a bit. Makes it easier to see the puddle and keeps you're wire stick out shorter. You changed to solid.023 from flux-core. You changed the wire drive rollers inside the machine to .023 size too.....right? How about the gun cable liner??? Check the tension on the wire spool holder. Should be just tight enough to keep the spool from spinning on its own when you let go of the trigger. Also, feed roller tension is important. To little and the wire may not advance steadily causing stuttering and flat spots in the wire, in turn causing the wire to jam in the tip, bird-nest in the machine, or kink in the liner. To much pressure will crush the wire, causing it to get stuck in the tip. I check that the wire is feeding at the right pressure by pointing the gun at the palm of my gloved hand and pulling the trigger, feeding the wire into the palm of my hand. The wire should coil into your hand smoothly and steadily, with out pausing. If it does stop or pause, you're spool tension could be too tight. If not that, your drive roll pressure could be too loose. Welding with gas/solid wire should sound like sizzling bacon when you've got it dialed in. One other thing that can screw you up a bit is that sometimes you'll get you machine set perfect and come back the next day to weld the same stuff and your machine behaves differently and you have to make slight adjustments. This can be due to the power supply feeding your house/shop/neighbourhood varying slightly. First shop space I was in sucked for that!!!! Also check you've got good contact with your ground clamp. There's my nickles worth. Practice, practice, practice!!!!!Bert200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:Thanks Yorkiepapp,Settings were:.023 wireC25 gas20 cfh gas flowMax 1about 7 on the wirefeed dial. I'll have to measure what that is exactly.I reversed the wirefeed roller to get the right size groove for the thinner wire, but I didn't change the liner. If there's a way to do that I don't know what it is. I used a flap sander (thanks HF) to clean the metal down to shiny bright before welding.
Reply:You keep saying you can't see where your joint is to weld.Are you near sighted?I'm near-sighted and have to use a cheater lens in my ADH or take my contacts out or my glasses off when I am at home.Also with flux core wire,get yourself a lincoln flux core nozzle and grind the center out a little until it will fit your gun's gas diffuser,that's what I did with my HF 90 amper,helps you to see the puddle better.When I first got my flux core welder,all the smoke made it hard to see also,so I would get a little fan and let it blow where I was welding(probably going to catch some flak about the fan) and it would keep the smoke at bay so I could see the weld.Last edited by dugndeep; 11-17-2010 at 07:06 PM.Maxus Pro-125 MigChicago Electric 90 amp DC flux-coreLincoln Electric AC 225 tombstoneO/A torchM/O mini-torch10 acres of flatland15 acres of holler
Reply:Originally Posted by dugndeepYou keep saying you can't see where your joint is to weld.Are you near sighted?I'm near-sighted and have to use a cheater lens in my ADH or take my contacts out or my glasses off when I am at home.Also with flux core wire,get yourself a lincoln flux core nozzle and grind the center out a little until it will fit your gun's gas diffuser,that's what I did with my HF 90 amper,helps you to see the puddle better.When I first got my flux core welder,all the smoke made it hard to see also,so I would get a little fan and let it blow where I was welding(probably going to catch some flak about the fan) and it would keep the smoke at bay so I could see the weld.
Reply:When I use my 110 with fluxcore i just pull the nozzle right off, you get a great view of the puddle. Also make sure you wipe the smoke off of your lens periodically. Looks like you could crank the wirespeed down a hair more and move slower. Are you pushing of pulling the puddle? Make sure you set yourself up to weld comfortably, lean against something if possible. Center the wire at the joint, but also look at the top and bottom of the puddle and keep it in a straight consistent line, whip and pause pushing the puddle.Some folks may disagree but that's what works for me.Keep it up you'll be laying textbook beads in no time.
Reply:I'd bet the bifocals are going to be a problem. Not easy to keep the correct sight angle with the hood on I'd imagine.Do you have any "no line" lenses you could try?  (not bifocal, just for close distance)Last edited by daddy; 12-30-2010 at 07:57 PM.Reason: clarification