Small or side business questions

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Hi,I'm interesting in starting a side business fab'ing.  I've searched the net a bit for sites related to small businesses, but a lot of the convo seems to be too general or focused on types of people who enjoy only the business aspect and don't much love or have an emotional attachment to the kind of business they discuss.  Also, fabricating / welding is such a different business than most.  It requires materials, consumables, talent, equipment, etc and you are actually selling your skills not skills of someone you hired.In lieu of this and other reasons, would it be possible to set up a designated location for threads relating to running / operating a small or side business in fabrication or welding?  This site as a whole would grow immensely.Thanks in advance,
Reply:Hey engineer 1984,Your query is interesting & I also believe it would benefit many who are considering taking a plunge into a small side operation for additional income, or getting "out-on-their-own". As the OP, you would have to ask the moderators/staff at the site to consider this as a sticky that can be addressed by the members who are/or contemplating starting their own business. Those already in their own operation can furnish relevant data as to their operation, equipment, experience, processes used, types of fab/welding done, additional resources/experience such as machining/machine shop equip. on hand, & their operation successes/failures & causes.Ok, I'll start with an operational portrait of my small/one-man shop that has done well. I am now fully retired from my employer so my time is quite flexible. My welding/fab shop was a single-car garage, 24' X 18', wired for single-phase 220vac/100A. I do production fab/welding, machining, & general repairs. I have a mobile unit for field work/repair. I use MIG, TIG, Stick, O/A, & Plasma processes both in the shop & mobile. I have/use a lathe, mill, bandsaw, dry cut saw, drill presses, grinders, belt sanders, bandsaw blade welder, saw blade sharpener, & finish buffers in the welding & machine shops, & a compressor in each work area incl. mobile. Since I do a lot of production runs, I have multiple MIG units set up for each production scenerio such as multiple piece runs of aluminum or steel.I do general repairs, fabrication, machining, & welding & nothing in the pipeline, rig, structural, aerospace, or automotive arenas. General repairs include steel, SS, aluminum, & cast iron/steel. I fab alum. polished alum. d/plate custom accessories for the classic/show car group, fabricate home/garden/outdoor crafts, & do production design(freelance) for several companies. I maintain a stock of aluminum, steel, & sheetmetal in several configurations, ie., sq., rd., angle, & flat.My suggestions for anyone wanting to engage in a "side" operation, or go fulltime on their own, is to make sure you are quite competent with each process used, timely, absolutely first-class work, & never take a job you are not confident with, have any doubts, or the equipment to do. Start out slowly & build your reputation with each job. NEVER go into debt wanting to buy additional equipment. Put aside the profit from each job in a "cigar-box" as I did, till there is enough to make another purchase, & that is after all expenses are taken care of first.Pricing will vary considerably with geographical location & your level of workmanship & quality. Set a price that is profitable for your operation..... remember, PROFIT is what keeps you in business. The repair sector has done quite well with the recession, layoffs, & the uncertainty today as most are getting things "fixed" rather than replaced. Use it to your advantage. Last..... you gotta love it. You gotta have the passion. You gotta have it in your blood. If it's not there, find another career avenue to travel. You gotta accept the bumps in the road & the setbacks & always have a backup plan ready. It's entirely up to you.... no one else. Simply ask yourself: "How bad do you want it?" DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:One small, but very important consideration is insurance.  Make sure you got good coverage just in case something you weld for even a freind wont come back to haunt you.  In todays society even a good freind can become your worst nightmare and cost you your home and all that you have if the unfortunate happens.  Start out small with non critical stuff, and progress as your skill, expertise and experience dictate.  I for one would like for you and every body else to hang around and be long term forum members who dont have a drastic developement in their lives because of some unfortunate accident.  Just a few thoughts to consider if you havent all ready thought about those kinds of issues.  They happen and change lives forever.BobI'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:I would also  be interested in seeing this turn into a sticky. I started working for one of our local farmers while i am in school part time and full time in the summer and found i enjoyed fixing things so  one thing lead to another and i started to practice welding with his old Lincoln 225 ac stick welder i also signed up for our schools manufacturing course. After seeing the nice machines at school i decided i wanted something a little better so i personally bought a Millermatic 200. Then i found a plasma cutter for a reasonable price so I figured hey why not and bought it. after playing with those two machines for a summer i decide i might want to learn TIG so i kept an eye open and found a miller shopmaster all setup for mig and tig for a reasonable price so i bought it. Now i have more machine then i will ever use in my life time. After using all these and practicing my butt off for the last 6 months i have decided to start taking on side projects of non critical pieces. The first thing i did was sit down with the farmer and we have agreed that in return for my skills and tools. I can if and when i get a project use his shop space to create it. So far i've had no outside projects come through the doors but a couple might be in the works.sorry for the uber long post but i thought my story might be intresting.Happy Trails Ryan_______________________OF COURSE I DON'T LOOK BUSY... I DID IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME
Reply:yes this is a very interesting subject that i would love to hear more about from members that have first hand experience. i love repairing thing and would love to eventually have my own business, also thank you guys for your very informative posts, i also support makin this a sticky!
Reply:This is a great topic for the forum, I will be watching it closely. It would be helpful to see how some of you have your home shop set up after operating small business out of it for a while. I am fortunate enough to have a good sized shop at our commercial building but have considered setting up a home shop on many occasions. I sure would love to see how Denny gets all of that equipment and tools organized in a 18' x 24' space and still have room to work.Ken
Reply:I think it is an important subject with quite a few fellas interested in the How of small biz and welding shop.   YorkiePap and RBeckett  have started with two very key ingredients.   Have a financial base to survive for awhile, it's important.   Then, like Clint Eastwood "A man's gotta' know his limitations." For ex:  Even if I wanted to do this, I'm not a good enough welder, and there are some health issues. So,  I'm best off to do non  structural projects to amuse myself and be productive.  If you have the fire and the talent then do not doubt yourself.  When I was younger, early 40's, I did start a business that most folks thought was foolhardy and would not make me any money. I thought it was going to be a sideline, a hobby. Instead it became my only business pretty quickly. I had some $, I had the talent, I was willing to be patient and build on my skills and I did not burden myself with a lot of debt beyond buying my own shop buildng . It went well, so plan it out and be confident.  Somewhere there is a thread on letting your company and efforts be customer driven vs. you dreaming up the direction and hoping for the best.   IMHO, customer driven is  better.  Mske it a sticky or just keep asking on details that interest you and the thread will stay alive.  There are several very successful fellas here who do have good shops and I've seen some great advice from them.Last edited by PapaLion; 11-16-2010 at 06:43 AM.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:I've had good luck in the past dealing with the Small Business Administration (SBA). They were helpful in providing information about business certificate, tax numbers, etc. They have all the phone numbers and info to make it pretty simple. They also have a mentoring program with retired business men that may have experience in you field. When  I was there, quite a few years ago, they offered free training with Quickbooks software for accounting purposes.Welding/fabricating becomes a different animal when you tag "business" at the end of it. But it's like most things...if you have the passion and desire, it'll work. Be careful not to get into the price war game. Ther'll always be somebody to undercut you and you'll lose. Always provide work and service that is "cheap at twice the price"...meaning that no matter what you charge the client thinks he got the best deal in the world. That's what keeps 'em coming back. AlA man is judged by what's between his legs...always ride a good horseMiller DialArc HFLincoln Classic 300DThermal Arc 181iPowermax 45Scotchman Ironworker(2) BridgeportsOkomota Surface GrinderAutoCAD 2010
Reply:I was personally less interested in making this a sticky and more interested in making this a section of the forums.  With a sticky, we get about 200 responses and if you want a specific answer you can use the search method, but nothing is really organized.If we had a section dedicated to these questions, then one thread could be: Hey, I have an insurance question.  Another thread: My building just caught fire, what do I do?OSHA is requiring this, what now?or Is this OSHA okay?  (see pics)What do I need in state XX to meet requirements before I can sell ABC?and so forth.I don't think that a sticky is useless, but I don't have a specific question right now nor do I believe that many people do.  If we had a section to entertain questions, I could learn just as much trolling the site as posting.  CheersAndyPS Thank you for all the responses.  I'm glad to see there is a lot of interest and I'm grateful for the advice.  Thanks again.Last edited by engineer1984; 11-16-2010 at 09:17 AM.
Reply:Hey Andy,I don't believe this forum is the place to query members regarding their business operations & the entire gamut of categories related to a welding business per se. This site is used to exchange information with a wide variety of processes, repairs, projects, & manufacturers equipment. Your subject would be better served by starting your own website that is exclusively categorized for a welding operation with all the various parameters of process/equipment needed, ie., repairs, fabrication, machining, mobile availability, & then the arena category, ie., general, structural, rig, pipeline, aerospace, etc., & then the requirements, ie., insurance, taxes, rent/own, advertising, etc..  As you can see, the variables can be infinite, thus, a site as this could not provide all the subject material that can be discussed. I believe the best you can do here is a sticky to get answers to common inquiries with a business venture.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:I've been reading here for over a year and just signed up the other day. One of the reasons I went ahead and joined is so that I could ask questions. I am starting welding school in January so I plan on learning that part of the business there, hands on, but this forum is a great place to ask about fabrication techniques and such. I agree with Andy that it would be helpful to many of us to have a separate sub forum on the business side of welding. Another forum I browse, Practical Machinist, has a sub forum called "shop owners" or something similar that deals with everything from dealing with employees to insurance to justifying equipment purchases, dealing with gov't agencies and anything else that may have to do with the business side of things. It probably wouldn't be as active as the projects sub forum, but would probably be beneficial to many of the members here.
Reply:A little history.... I have been working in the construction business (Concrete) for 15 years. Building concrete placing equipment, Truck accesories (Beds,Racks). I have been involved in professional motorsports building complete vehicles form a pile of raw stock. With the death of construction in So California,A year ago I decided to Open a general weld & fab shop. I figured if I can make it now I can make it anytime. I rented a shop, moved my equipment in and opened the doors. The details have taken a lot of time,Business license, Insurance, Sellers permit. It is best thing I have ever done.  The good things are you don't have a boss, You never know whats going to come through the door, Its always something different.Being a one man shop you get to do everything from cleaning, pickup material, paperwork. It is not for somebody who wants a 9-5 job, You work untill the job is done even if that means night oir weekends.I hate rude behavior in a man.......Won't tolerate it!                   Woodrow F. Call
Reply:bump?  Or no go on the sub forum section?  I'm don't know how much work is required to upkeep another sub topic area.  I also don't know if this site is kept up for free or if a profit is made, what type of view the originator had in mind when starting this site, etc.  I'm sure these all factor into the decision to add something or not.Any thoughts from the MGMT? : )
Reply:Originally Posted by cc51The details have taken a lot of time,Business license, Insurance, Sellers permit.
Reply:Originally Posted by engineer1984bump?  Or no go on the sub forum section?  I'm don't know how much work is required to upkeep another sub topic area.  I also don't know if this site is kept up for free or if a profit is made, what type of view the originator had in mind when starting this site, etc.  I'm sure these all factor into the decision to add something or not.Any thoughts from the MGMT? : )
Reply:Originally Posted by SkeluhtorI need some guidance please. I am moving into my first shop january 1st 2011 I paid the rent for the whole year in advance. I have a good start for tools(can never have enough) and am excited to get started. I plan on doing manufacturing of arts and craft type metal work either by metal smithing or welding. I also plan on doing some repairs on the side in the shop and mobile.I am trying to find out what buisness license I need but I really cant find anything that fits the metalsmith and occasional repair small buisness model. I know its sort of a regional thing but any info on what buisness license's other small buisness guys have would certainly steer me in the right direction.I know I need insurance too but I have found info on that.Thanks
Reply:Thanks so far I called a couple departments and I ge tthese secretaries who know absolutely nothing. But I have gathered some info.I found out I need a buisness certificate($40 for 4 years) which is just a general thing every buisness needs and insurance. It looks like that should cover most of it. I will need a contractors license if I want to install(or repair?) stuff on peoples property. I have to look into doing welding repairs on trailers or vehicles I think that would be through the DOT.I think I will skip the contractors license because I can just team up with a local contractor where I build the railing or fence and they install it. Or maybe I can work under their license?
Reply:you have to be tough when your in busniees i got hung about 9 mths ago welded somethin up for a freind and it broke off on a hiway.Luckily nothing or no one got hurt. we should dedicate a seperate thread just so guys can get input from busniess owners.The guys and gals here are Very knowledgeable and are always ready to guide you in right direction.miller maxstar 150   hobart handler 210 w mig conversion hobart 250 arc force plasma cutter    boston ind cutting torch miller performance auto darkening helmet milwalkee 14in chop saw 10,000 watt generator huge drill press and industrial band saw
Reply:The two most important business tips I ever received (before I got interested in welding and was just machining)#1 Every regular customer was a new customer once.#2 Word of mouth can make you or break you at Mach.Sounds obvious, seems like it ought to be common sense - it should be.This came from a guy in a ratty old pickup who pulled up right at quitting time with a screw broke off in a little part.  Took me less than 5 minutes to get it out - I figured it would take longer to write up a ticket than it was worth so I told him he could get me next time.  No big deal, every SBO has probably done something similar from time to time.  Turns out the guy restored old implements, had a little something for me about every other week.  Not enough to live on - no mega-bucks contracts - just an old farmer that would come in and drink my coffee while i got his parts.  Then he would go to the cafe and have coffee and tell all those other old farmers about his new parts.
Reply:CC 51I know what you mean. When I got laid off from the local cat dealier I took a hobby and turned it into a living for about 13 weeks. Then the guy that I bought my parts from hired me on for a while till the wheels fell of that ride. Now Im back hauling equipment for another company, just waiting for another door to close and maybe this time I do the big plung and do it for my self. I found myself in my little shop till 2 or 3 in the am working, and enjoying ever min of it! GOOD FOR YOU!
Reply:Originally Posted by Vince_oCC 51I know what you mean. When I got laid off from the local cat dealier I took a hobby and turned it into a living for about 13 weeks. Then the guy that I bought my parts from hired me on for a while till the wheels fell of that ride. Now Im back hauling equipment for another company, just waiting for another door to close and maybe this time I do the big plung and do it for my self. I found myself in my little shop till 2 or 3 in the am working, and enjoying ever min of it! GOOD FOR YOU!
Reply:Originally Posted by SkeluhtorThanks so far I called a couple departments and I ge tthese secretaries who know absolutely nothing. But I have gathered some info.I found out I need a buisness certificate($40 for 4 years) which is just a general thing every buisness needs and insurance. It looks like that should cover most of it. I will need a contractors license if I want to install(or repair?) stuff on peoples property. I have to look into doing welding repairs on trailers or vehicles I think that would be through the DOT.I think I will skip the contractors license because I can just team up with a local contractor where I build the railing or fence and they install it. Or maybe I can work under their license?
Reply:I don't want to require a huge insurance coverage plan because I can't afford it.I hear this 'dog and pony' bit quite a bit on this forum.  Is this really true or is it simply someone else dropping their rates to get more jobs?
Reply:Originally Posted by engineer1984I don't want to require a huge insurance coverage plan because I can't afford it.I hear this 'dog and pony' bit quite a bit on this forum.  Is this really true or is it simply someone else dropping their rates to get more jobs?
Reply:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...lding+business